Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Thread XII

[Killer_Mike]

I didn't know he's 43.

I honestly thought mid 50's.

He hasn't aged well

 

[Kong]

It is a bit disrespectful for sure. You don't ever hear anyone slag off Brisbane's dynasty yet they never finished the season on the top of the ladder.

Haha, I don't have many nice things to say about it.

For one, they had two significant unfair advantages across that era (IV drips and extra room in the salary cap).

And they were also fortunate that their main challenger in 2002 and 2003 (Port) continued to choke during the finals, despite Port clearly being the best side in both years.

There are a few similarities with the Hawthorn three-peat, actually.

Both are good teams, but I don't think they're as good as Geelong of 2007 or Essendon of 2000.

 

[BrunoV]

How is it total crap? They weren't the best team over the course of the season, which is why they had nothing more than a solid record (15-7 and 115%). You can say that everything outside the finals is irrelevant, but that doesn't mean it's total crap.

I'd also dispute that bringing it up is irrelevant in the first place. It doesn't take away the premiership or imply it has less meaning than any other, but I definitely believe a team who has only shown the ability to be the best in a small (albeit important) window is more susceptible to a fall from grace than a standard all-conquering team. It's why a lot more people predicted a drop off from the Dogs than you'd see for most other premiers.

And I don't think an AFL season can be compared to a marathon because the finals series is independent from the rest of the season. There's no equivalent situation in a marathon. You can't perform OK for the first 35km and then qualify for the last part of the race on practically equal footing with everyone else.

Agree with this. The commentary on the last few pages has been a response to the usual lauding of a premier which should not apply to the Dogs because unlike the Cats and the Hawks they can't canter through games and still win enough games to make the top 4 (and might struggle to sneak into the finals)

They're basically that Port team from 2014 but they got over the line. They play an unsustainable, inefficient and exhausting brand of footy which has stood up for four weeks of finals which is great except that making the finals is not a foregone conclusion as it usually is with premiers.

The ultimate success can't and shouldn't be taken away from the Dogs but it should not be used to explain away what is happening in following years. Would Port winning in 2014 have made any difference to their collapse in the following years? At this point in time there is nothing to suggest that it would.

 

[BrunoV]

It is a bit disrespectful for sure. You don't ever hear anyone slag off Brisbane's dynasty yet they never finished the season on the top of the ladder.

Having said that I do think the pre finals bye was a huge advantage to the teams finishing 5-8.

Sent from my F3115 using Tapatalk

How are you supposed to undermine three premierships in a row when they finished top 4 every year?

 

[eth-dog]

It's amusing that so many people ares till convinced that we won't make the 8 when we've got the easiest fixture from here.

 

[Kakkle]

It's amusing that so many people ares till convinced that we won't make the 8 when we've got the easiest fixture from here.

Maybe because we have a history of dropping games that are perceived to be 'easy wins'.

 

[Maddogm]

It's amusing that so many people ares till convinced that we won't make the 8 when we've got the easiest fixture from here.

I suppose we have that unknown in our lack of consistency, we could drop some of those easy ones without surprising anyone. On the flip side we could also only drop one game without it being too much of a shock (less likely though for mine)

 

[Pweter]

It's amusing that so many people ares till convinced that we won't make the 8 when we've got the easiest fixture from here.

Given we have a habit of going all Essington it's easy to have some doubts. We're not exactly entrenched in the top 8 and it'll only take a couple of slips on the way home to fall outside the 8.

All things considered, should we finish in the 8? Absolutely. Are we guaranteed a top 8 finish? Hell no.

 

[tesla1962]

We are not going in as favourites against Sydney. I expect if the rain stays away that we will be pretty competitive. The next match against Brisbane at Ethiad more fits the typical game that we are expected to win well and end up losing.

 

[JayJ20]

It's amusing that so many people ares till convinced that we won't make the 8 when we've got the easiest fixture from here.

Yep agreed. I was actually hoping to sneak into the 8 on the back of our easy second half, but to be in the 8 after a tough start to the year is pretty impressive. Just sit back and laugh as they wonder why we're still in the 8.

Compare that to Port who are literally in the 4 at the moment courtesy of an easy fixture. It'll balance out in the second half and I'll go as far as saying that a spot in the 8 is ours to lose.

 

[eth-dog]

Maybe because we have a history of dropping games that are perceived to be 'easy wins'.

That's a good point.

I suppose we have that unknown in our lack of consistency, we could drop some of those easy ones without surprising anyone. On the flip side we could also only drop one game without it being too much of a shock (less likely though for mine)

I honestly have us going 8-2 from here.

Given we have a habit of going all Essington it's easy to have some doubts. We're not exactly entrenched in the top 8 and it'll only take a couple of slips on the way home to fall outside the 8.

All things considered, should we finish in the 8? Absolutely. Are we guaranteed a top 8 finish? Hell no.

Just look at the fixtures of the teams 7-11. We play one current top 8 side for the rest of the year. Freo play 4, West Coast 4, Bulldogs 5, St. Kilda 6. Given that we absolutely should finish top 8.

Yep agreed. I was actually hoping to sneak into the 8 on the back of our easy second half, but to be in the 8 after a tough start to the year is pretty impressive. Just sit back and laugh as they wonder why we're still in the 8.

Compare that to Port who are literally in the 4 at the moment courtesy of an easy fixture. It'll balance out in the second half and I'll go as far as saying that a spot in the 8 is ours to lose.

I wasn't expecting finals but this fixture is good enough to make them

 

[citizen-erased]

It's amusing that so many people ares till convinced that we won't make the 8 when we've got the easiest fixture from here.

We are where I expected us to be, though I had us beating Melbourne, Carlton and freo and not beating port, eagles or the cats.
Sydney won't be easy and the saints can be dangerous for us. but they and the remainder of our fixture shouldn't be major issues if we can bring the 4 quarter efforts

 

[sameolds33]

How is it total crap? They weren't the best team over the course of the season, which is why they had nothing more than a solid record (15-7 and 115%). You can say that everything outside the finals is irrelevant, but that doesn't mean it's total crap.

I'd also dispute that bringing it up is irrelevant in the first place. It doesn't take away the premiership or imply it has less meaning than any other, but I definitely believe a team who has only shown the ability to be the best in a small (albeit important) window is more susceptible to a fall from grace than a standard all-conquering team. It's why a lot more people predicted a drop off from the Dogs than you'd see for most other premiers.

And I don't think an AFL season can be compared to a marathon because the finals series is independent from the rest of the season. There's no equivalent situation in a marathon. You can't perform OK for the first 35km and then qualify for the last part of the race on practically equal footing with everyone else.

The best team in any season is the team that finishes top of the Home and Away games. The premiers are the best team in the separate knockout competition we call the finals.

 

[pepsi]

Just look at the fixtures of the teams 7-11. We play one current top 8 side for the rest of the year.

When 4th position and 15th position are only separated by 2 wins, making judgements based solely on ladder position is not the strongest piece of evidence.

Sydney are out of the 8 but will be difficult to beat at the scg. We have the dogs yet who could turn their form around. This is the most even I can ever remember it being at this stage of the season.

Having said all that, I think Adelaide, GWS and Melbourne are better than us, but we match well against the remaining teams. We could go 7 and 3 in the last 10 games, but I'm seeing us going 6-4 or 5-5. I will revisit that after the Sydney game.

 

[DapperDon]

It's amusing that so many people ares till convinced that we won't make the 8 when we've got the easiest fixture from here.

Vale Finals

 

[Drummer_19]

Vale Finals

Had a good week or so of quietly hoping. Oh well.

 

[eth-dog]

When 4th position and 15th position are only separated by 2 wins, making judgements based solely on ladder position is not the strongest piece of evidence.

Sydney are out of the 8 but will be difficult to beat at the scg. We have the dogs yet who could turn their form around. This is the most even I can ever remember it being at this stage of the season.

Having said all that, I think Adelaide, GWS and Melbourne are better than us, but we match well against the remaining teams. We could go 7 and 3 in the last 10 games, but I'm seeing us going 6-4 or 5-5. I will revisit that after the Sydney game.

Good thing we only have one of those three teams in the remaining fixture? We have Sydney, Brisbane, Collingwood, St. Kilda, North, Carlton, Bulldogs, Adelaide, Gold Coast and Fremantle.

 

[pepsi]

what are you thinking at the moment?

Sydney - loss
Brisbane - win
Collingwood 50-50. I know you don't rate them, but I do.
St. Kilda - 60-40 our way at the minute
North - win
Carlton - win (but they are no pushover. You have to play well with a high level of intensity to beat them. I've seen them several times live this season and they impress me.)
Bulldogs - 50-50
Adelaide - loss
Gold Coast -50 50 as it's over there and they could be playing for a finals spot
Fremantle - win but hopefully this game means nothing for them. They could also be playing for a finals spot

 

[Beerfish]

I probably shouldn't be saying this but it's difficult to see us losing any of those.

 

[Skipper_]

How I see our draw:

Swans - 40/60
Lions - 80/20
Collingwood - 60/40
St Kilda - 60/40
North Melbourne - 70/30
Carlton - 70/30
Bulldogs - 50/50
Crows - 30/70
Gold Coast - 60/40
Fremantle - 60/40

 

[Skipper_]

I probably shouldn't be saying this but it's difficult to see us losing any of those.

Is that you Mick?

 

[eth-dog]

Sydney - loss
Brisbane - win
Collingwood 50-50. I know you don't rate them, but I do.
St. Kilda - 60-40 our way at the minute
North - win
Carlton - win (but they are no pushover. You have to play well with a high level of intensity to beat them. I've seen them several times live this season and they impress me.)
Bulldogs - 50-50
Adelaide - loss
Gold Coast -50 50 as it's over there and they could be playing for a finals spot
Fremantle - win but hopefully this game means nothing for them. They could also be playing for a finals spot

Collingwood are shit. We will put 20 past them.

 

[Mercurial89]

Collingwood are shit. We will put 20 past them.

Why do you do this?

 

[eth-dog]

Why do you do this?

I said it ANZAC Day. Look what happened.

 

[Pweter]

I said it ANZAC Day. Look what happened.

We didn't put 20 past them....