Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2019

[James1970]

Haha, 94 I just got angry I think. 92 I went so couldn't have a teary. Apparently I cried hard in 91 when we lost a final.

I cried when we won that final in 1991, out at VFL Park in the blazing sunshine.

Gazza had a shocker (to go with his year), bu thankfully Brownless kicked 8. Yet Plugger, the second greatest player I've ever seen, nearly beat us, kicking 9.

This is what footy looked like, kids...

 

[goyoucatters]

I’d say Rance is the best I’ve seen since Scarlett. I think he gets a rough deal around these parts. And Scarlett is the second best defender I’ve seen. The best is Enright.

Whatever one might think about the opinions flying around here regarding Carey et al, I think your viewpoint here is probably the most indisputable.

Rance might be a fair way from being the GOAT as a full-back. But I believe he has entirely deserved every one of his AA guernseys.

And like a number of other top shelf opposition players on here, he gets relentlessly talked down by some of our posters. But if he played for the hoops, he would be championed ad infinitum.

As Richmond's season is showing, he really is that good.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Haha, 94 I just got angry I think. 92 I went so couldn't have a teary. Apparently I cried hard in 91 when we lost a final.

Saturday morning before the game - i went up to the local shops - hardware or art shop or something - and i bought a stack of these blue and white balloons - about 40-50 of them - the girl serving thought i was nuts . Took them home - went out in the yard - and blew them up myself - no machine - one by one

Where i was living it was a beautiful sunny breezy day - and i had all these glorious blue and white balloons tied to the front fence flying high up in the air

At half time the writing was on the wall - and i burst everyone of them - fair dinkum

Getting back to Peter Hudson - he was a tremendous FF - with a real football brain - and if a FB kept him goalless- like Barry Richardson did one day - then there was tremendous publicity fot that feat

I can still remember when Hudson did his knee - it was the opening day of the season at Glenferrie against Melb - and Melb then were like they are today - hopeless - and Hudson had about 7-8 goals on the board to half time before he did his knee

 

[FredLeDeux]

Richmond supporters who think Rance, in his position, is comparable to Carey in his position are deluded.

They would have a better case if they backed Royce Hart.
But they'd still lose.

Carey is the best CHF of the last 50 years, and in contention only with Matthews and GAS for the greatest all-round player of that half-century.

Rance is simply nowhere near the greatest player of the last 50 years, and only in contention with at least a dozen other players for the best KPD of that 50 years.

 

[Down at K Park]

We'll agree to disagree then.
I can't shake the notion of someone bathed by Melksham being rated among the best

I remember rance being taken to school by harry taylor playing forward 2 years ago. Was forced to defend one on one to a part time forward, and got shown up as the fraud he is. If you can’t defend one on one to save your life, the idea you are the goat defender is laughable.

 

[Partridge]

I’d say Rance is the best I’ve seen since Scarlett. I think he gets a rough deal around these parts. And Scarlett is the second best defender I’ve seen. The best is Enright.

Completely agree. I think he suffers from this boards own Richmond Derangement Syndrome, which not coincidentally really started - against Rance - in September 2017. As recently as one year before that, when we beat Richmond at the MCG (in a game they should have won, but didn't have the poise or experience to do so), Rance thrashed Hawkins and no less than Willo was full of nothing but praise for Rance (along with others, I do remember the phase "Christ what a defender" from memory).

Mysteriously enough, as soon as they'd stepped off the premiership dais 12 months later the same posters now say (with presumably straight faces) that Rance has never beaten anyone one on one, is overrated, and so on. If I didn't know better I'd swear Rance mutilated Willo's family pet in October 2017. Couldn't have anything to do with Richmond daring to win a flag though, not at all.

When I see this board and discussions on Rance, you could substitute Hawthorn supporters for Scarlett from ten years ago and barely change a word.

 

[Partridge]

I didn’t witness the first three or Coleman (obviously) but Carey was better than Lockett and Dunstall IMO.

Rance probably better than Langford and Glass too IMO.

I reckon Lockett maybe, maybe just nudging out Carey. But not by much.

For what it's worth I'd rank Langford as every bit as good as Silvagni. I'd have Scarlett and Rance ahead of both.

 

[Partridge]

I remember rance being taken to school by harry taylor playing forward 2 years ago. Was forced to defend one on one to a part time forward, and got shown up as the fraud he is. If you can’t defend one on one to save your life, the idea you are the goat defender is laughable.

I'm presuming you had your eyes open during the Qualifying Final a few weeks later then? Because Taylor got murdered by a full back who looked a lot like Rance's twin brother. Including quite a few one on one contests.

Taylor absolutely got him the first time. But it hasn't happened since and it was returned with interest during the finals.

 

[Landgraft]

Completely agree. I think he suffers from this boards own Richmond Derangement Syndrome, which not coincidentally really started - against Rance - in September 2017. As recently as one year before that, when we beat Richmond at the MCG (in a game they should have won, but didn't have the poise or experience to do so), Rance thrashed Hawkins and no less than Willo was full of nothing but praise for Rance (along with others, I do remember the phase "Christ what a defender" from memory).

Mysteriously enough, as soon as they'd stepped off the premiership dais 12 months later the same posters now say (with presumably straight faces) that Rance has never beaten anyone one on one, is overrated, and so on. If I didn't know better I'd swear Rance mutilated Willo's family pet in October 2017. Couldn't have anything to do with Richmond daring to win a flag though, not at all.

When I see this board and discussions on Rance, you could substitute Hawthorn supporters for Scarlett from ten years ago and barely change a word.

At the start of the year there were some CD numbers on Rance - he had more one on one contests than anyone, was around the 33rd percentile for defenders win % in one on one contests.

It's very weird but the numbers suggest that as a one on one defender he's not bad or brilliant... he's more of a workhorse. What I like about his game is that he covers all three facets of the defenders game (intercepting, one-on-one, rebounding) pretty much equally well. But at the same time he isn't nearly as strong as the media circlejerk will often suggest. Whether people disliking him is team bias/tall poppy syndrome/the Jehovah's witness thing/whatever is likely to always be up in the air.

 

[Willo_]

Completely agree. I think he suffers from this boards own Richmond Derangement Syndrome, which not coincidentally really started - against Rance - in September 2017. As recently as one year before that, when we beat Richmond at the MCG (in a game they should have won, but didn't have the poise or experience to do so), Rance thrashed Hawkins and no less than Willo was full of nothing but praise for Rance (along with others, I do remember the phase "Christ what a defender" from memory).

Mysteriously enough, as soon as they'd stepped off the premiership dais 12 months later the same posters now say (with presumably straight faces) that Rance has never beaten anyone one on one, is overrated, and so on. If I didn't know better I'd swear Rance mutilated Willo's family pet in October 2017. Couldn't have anything to do with Richmond daring to win a flag though, not at all.

When I see this board and discussions on Rance, you could substitute Hawthorn supporters for Scarlett from ten years ago and barely change a word.

Rance is comfortably one of the best modern defenders, and I've said before that when he is on i swear he can cover all 6 forwards at once it feels like.. I play it up a fair bit the downplaying of him.


But he also flops, drops and gets overrated at times for things simply because of who he is... The Cyril syndrome.. And is exceptionally gettable in one on ones for a player of his quality.
This is why IMO he can't be talked about as better than Scarlo

Picking me out is a pretty low move considering i am probably tamer than most here who are at the point of genuinely not rating him at all.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Completely agree. I think he suffers from this boards own Richmond Derangement Syndrome, which not coincidentally really started - against Rance - in September 2017. As recently as one year before that, when we beat Richmond at the MCG (in a game they should have won, but didn't have the poise or experience to do so), Rance thrashed Hawkins and no less than Willo was full of nothing but praise for Rance (along with others, I do remember the phase "Christ what a defender" from memory).

Mysteriously enough, as soon as they'd stepped off the premiership dais 12 months later the same posters now say (with presumably straight faces) that Rance has never beaten anyone one on one, is overrated, and so on. If I didn't know better I'd swear Rance mutilated Willo's family pet in October 2017. Couldn't have anything to do with Richmond daring to win a flag though, not at all.

When I see this board and discussions on Rance, you could substitute Hawthorn supporters for Scarlett from ten years ago and barely change a word.

Yeah Rance is the best since Scarlett and like Scarlett people like to remember him now instead of at peak pre-premiership years.
I don't think he should be mentioned near Carey though. Nowhere near him whatsoever.
But like someone smart said before, both looking for careers at ch7.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I reckon Lockett maybe, maybe just nudging out Carey. But not by much.

For what it's worth I'd rank Langford as every bit as good as Silvagni. I'd have Scarlett and Rance ahead of both.

Carey went to the next level in finals consistently though.
Not that Plugger got to play all that many I guess.
But that's how good he was, from the time he was named captain (youngest ever?) he dragged that team into finals every year for ages. The rest of North weren't really any more talented than Stkilda were some years. Actually less at times.

 

[Down at K Park]

I'm presuming you had your eyes open during the Qualifying Final a few weeks later then? Because Taylor got murdered by a full back who looked a lot like Rance's twin brother. Including quite a few one on one contests.

Taylor absolutely got him the first time. But it hasn't happened since and it was returned with interest during the finals.

Our whole team was crap that night though. Just gave it to them on a platter, bombing it blindly into the forward line.

 

[Willo_]

Our whole team was crap that night though. Just gave it to them on a platter, bombing it blindly into the forward line.

We weren't nearly as bad as people seem to remember that night... We were in that game up to our eyeballs for 3/4s.. We just got overwhelmed in the last quarter and they seemed to goal every time they went forward.
But the narrative that we were no good and comprehensively belted all game that the media runs with is simply wrong

(this has nothing really to do with your point btw)

 

[Landgraft]

We weren't nearly as bad as people seem to remember that night... We were in that game up to our eyeballs for 3/4s.. We just got overwhelmed in the last quarter and they seemed to goal every time they went forward.
But the narrative that we were no good and comprehensively belted all game that the media runs with is simply wrong

(this has nothing really to do with your point btw)

I didn't think either team played well until Richmond in the fourth tbh...

 

[Willo_]

I didn't think either team played well until Richmond in the fourth tbh...

Agree..
A tigers mate of mine was there and said it was a super high pressure game for the first few quarters, plenty of errors.. Just two sides slugging and scraping it out

 

[BotsMaster]

How would Blicavs go against Carey?

 

[Down at K Park]

We weren't nearly as bad as people seem to remember that night... We were in that game up to our eyeballs for 3/4s.. We just got overwhelmed in the last quarter and they seemed to goal every time they went forward.
But the narrative that we were no good and comprehensively belted all game that the media runs with is simply wrong

(this has nothing really to do with your point btw)

We did manage to stay close for 3 quarters. If i can remember correctly they failed to take their chances and could have buried us much earlier. The dam wall burst eventually though.

 

[Max Milburn]

Lonergan was as effective as Rance as a full back, and never saw him flop once.

 

[Willo_]

We did manage to stay close for 3 quarters. If i can remember correctly they failed to take their chances and could have buried us much earlier. The dam wall burst eventually though.

Yeah, that was how they played though as well.. They just wore teams down and plenty cracked and were split open in the last

 

[Mad_Hatter]

How would Blicavs go against Carey?

Murdered.
By 1/4 time he'd be on the ground in the fetal position crying to himself to make the bad man stop.
Not knocking Blicavs, he's a bloody good defender but he does lack that little extra AFL aptitude that Carey had in spades.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Lonergan was as effective as Rance as a full back, and never saw him flop once.

Rance is a way, way better kick and decision maker though.
Taking nothing away from Lonners though, he was great and underrated.

 

[Partridge]

We weren't nearly as bad as people seem to remember that night... We were in that game up to our eyeballs for 3/4s.. We just got overwhelmed in the last quarter and they seemed to goal every time they went forward.
But the narrative that we were no good and comprehensively belted all game that the media runs with is simply wrong

(this has nothing really to do with your point btw)

I think their pressure was superior and they had outplayed us. But agree it wasn't completely one-sided until the last quarter.

 

[Partridge]

Rance is comfortably one of the best modern defenders, and I've said before that when he is on i swear he can cover all 6 forwards at once it feels like.. I play it up a fair bit the downplaying of him.

But he also flops, drops and gets overrated at times for things simply because of who he is... The Cyril syndrome.. And is exceptionally gettable in one on ones for a player of his quality.
This is why IMO he can't be talked about as better than Scarlo

Picking me out is a pretty low move considering i am probably tamer than most here who are at the point of genuinely not rating him at all.

I could be wrong. It stands out to me as your view on him seemed to swing 180 degrees very quickly. Which is made it so much more noticeable.

 

[Cats_R_Cool_4_Ever]

GWS by 26 points but I want Essendon to win for Zacha’s 200th