Now LAMBOSE definitely in hot water!

[braddsey]

Was it performance enhancing or explicit ?

As Essendon have learnt (and other athletes outside AFL), without a drug test then the worst is assumed. Dodging drug testing in the eyes of ASADA/WADA means dodging a drug test for performance enhancing drugs... though the more likely story is he snorted something or dropped a few pills.

His explanation of dodging a girlfriend and having a migraine is about as believable as the Collingwood players eating dodgy steak...

As much as I think Lambert is good for Brisbane, if they're found guilty then he should cop the same penalty as anyone else.

 

[ZoBlitz]

I don't know about anyone else but who hasn't used the ASADA's drug testing process as a way to get out of a difficult relationship?

Hard to believe that's the best they could come up with...

 

[pulpdriver]

As Essendon have learnt, without a drug test then the worst is assumed. Dodging drug testing in the eyes of ASADA/WADA means dodging a drug test for performance enhancing drugs... though the more likely story is he snorted something or dropped a few pills.

His explanation of dodging a girlfriend and having a migraine is about as believable as the Collingwood players eating dodgy steak...

As much as I think Lambert is good for Brisbane, if they're found guilty then he should cop the same penalty as anyone else.

I guess the difference is that Essendon conclusively administered stuff to their players, they just couldn't say what it was because it was not recorded due to negligence or subsequent disposal of any record. In this instance it seems like it might be like trying to prove murder without a body or any other evidence aside from a story which can't be disproven.

This seems like it might be headed towards an area where it's not possible to establish beyond reasonable doubt whether Whitfield's story was fabricated or whether he was genuinely just trying to avoid his girlfriend and prepare to break up with her.
There's every chance there's a lot of texts that indicate a fractured relationship as well as none that can definitively prove that Whitfield's story is false, even if it does seem a bit fanciful.

I'd be interested in the opinions the board's many legal experts if ASADA actually has grounds to continue any investigation or hand out suspensions if their case is solely based on conflicting hearsay from two parties?

 

[braddsey]

I guess the difference is that Essendon conclusively administered stuff to their players, they just couldn't say what it was because it was not recorded due to negligence or subsequent disposal of any record. In this instance it seems like it might be like trying to prove murder without a body or any other evidence aside from a story which can't be disproven.

This seems like it might be headed towards an area where it's not possible to establish beyond reasonable doubt whether Whitfield's story was fabricated or whether he was genuinely just trying to avoid his girlfriend and prepare to break up with her.
There's every chance there's a lot of texts that indicate a fractured relationship as well as none that can definitively prove that Whitfield's story is false, even if it does seem a bit fanciful.

I'd be interested in the opinions the board's many legal experts if ASADA actually has grounds to continue any investigation or hand out suspensions if their case is solely based on conflicting hearsay from two parties?

Who's to say Whitfield didn't have an "energy drink" that had a banned supplement in (ala Amed Saad), and decide to dodge testing... and fabricated a stupid story to get around testing? No one... and in this regard it's not so much different to Essendon. No proof of what was taken, so there's no proof that nothing was taken. ASADA/WADA don't work on innocent until proven guilty, they work on guilty unless proven innocent via drug testing. Fractured relationship or not, in the eyes of WADA all that happened is it looks like he was avoiding drug testing. The email suggesting he had an illicit drugs problem certainly don't help his cause.

Edit: here it is written in plain text: https://www.asada.gov.au/anti-doping-programmes/whereabouts
Failure to be available for testing
If an athlete is not able to be at their specified location at their nominated time, they must let us know as soon as possible.

Failure to be available for testing at the specified location at the nominated time is the same as missing a test. A missed test may lead to an anti-doping rule violation and sanction.

 

[pulpdriver]

Who's to say Whitfield didn't have an "energy drink" that had a banned supplement in (ala Amed Saad), and decide to dodge testing... and fabricated a stupid story to get around testing? No one... and in this regard it's not so much different to Essendon. No proof of what was taken, so there's no proof that nothing was taken. ASADA/WADA don't work on innocent until proven guilty, they work on guilty unless proven innocent via drug testing. Fractured relationship or not, in the eyes of WADA all that happened is it looks like he was avoiding drug testing. The email suggesting he had an illicit drugs problem certainly don't help his cause.

I wasn't aware it was that clear cut from ASADA's perspective. Certainly not my area of expertise but the guilty until proven innocent claim does conflict with the stipulations under phase 1 ASADA's general investigation process.

 

[braddsey]

I wasn't aware it was that clear cut from ASADA's perspective. Certainly not my area of expertise but the guilty until proven innocent claim does conflict with the stipulations under phase 1 ASADA's general investigation process.

i'm also not aware that it is that clear-cut, just going on the build up of athletes suspended over the years, and in this case I would assume that given hearsay evidence points to him being hidden from drug-testing... it doesn't look good.

 

[pulpdriver]

i'm also not aware that it is that clear-cut, just going on the build up of athletes suspended over the years, and in this case I would assume that given hearsay evidence points to him being hidden from drug-testing... it doesn't look good.

Fair enough. I wonder if the assembled legal team sees a way out of it hence the new defense.

Not advocating in any way, just wondering out loud how strong such a case would actually be against ASADA's process.

 

[M Malice]

Failure to be available for testing
If an athlete is not able to be at their specified location at their nominated time, they must let us know as soon as possible.

Failure to be available for testing at the specified location at the nominated time is the same as missing a test. A missed test may lead to an anti-doping rule violation and sanction.

was Whitfield unavailable "for testing at the specified location at the nominated time"? i didn't think he actually missed a test.

until a verbatim copy of the texts are released/leaked and any texts leading up to the incident to establish a pattern of behavior between Whitfield and his girlfriend it would be very hard to establish if Whitfields story has any credence, otherwise it is just a he said she said bitter break up story.

 

[Football Pope]

Was it performance enhancing or explicit ?

LOL...The ex-girlfriend didn't see it as performance enhancing as he wasn't there..

 

[jjami15]

For those who are legally in the know, would Whitfield have any case in regards to his girlfriend contacting his employer in regards to drug use? I don't know defamation or something else? If an ex of mine did something like this I would be pissed big time. Of course everyone would want it to just go away.

 

[Simbatheking21]

Can anyone else see gubby getting away with it, while lambert and Whitfield get smashed with suspensions... just a feeling

 

[Crusha]

A.

Failure to be available for testing
If an athlete is not able to be at their specified location at their nominated time, they must let us know as soon as possible.

Failure to be available for testing at the specified location at the nominated time is the same as missing a test. A missed test may lead to an anti-doping rule violation and sanction.

B.

was Whitfield unavailable "for testing at the specified location at the nominated time"? i didn't think he actually missed a test.

B. According to the available reporting, he didn't ......... therefore A. does not apply

You can however, not be available at a location that was never specified, at a time that was never nominated, for a test that was never scheduled ..... heck, I do it all the time.

 

[Gadzorks]

I guess the difference is that Essendon conclusively administered stuff to their players, they just couldn't say what it was because it was not recorded due to negligence or subsequent disposal of any record. In this instance it seems like it might be like trying to prove murder without a body or any other evidence aside from a story which can't be disproven.

This seems like it might be headed towards an area where it's not possible to establish beyond reasonable doubt whether Whitfield's story was fabricated or whether he was genuinely just trying to avoid his girlfriend and prepare to break up with her.
There's every chance there's a lot of texts that indicate a fractured relationship as well as none that can definitively prove that Whitfield's story is false, even if it does seem a bit fanciful.

I'd be interested in the opinions the board's many legal experts if ASADA actually has grounds to continue any investigation or hand out suspensions if their case is solely based on conflicting hearsay from two parties?

Yes. It's not the reasons, but the fact that the change of address want reported. Reason/excuses don't count.
Was one case back in the day where a cyclist received PEDS in hospital after a collision and was subsequently banned for a year. Was very harsh but was during the epo clean up era. Mind you, they missed Armstrong so the clean up wasn't very good. Should have concentrated on him not people genuinely needing the drugs for medical reasons . Then again we now have Sharapova who i believe got her drugs on script from a doctor. More cheats get away with it than will ever be caught.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I don't know about anyone else but who hasn't used the ASADA's drug testing process as a way to get out of a difficult relationship?

Hard to believe that's the best they could come up with...

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

It will be known as the WAGS defence I suppose.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Gubby and Collingwood are clearly worried. Leon Zwier probably the most expensive litigation lawyer in these parts. And aggressive.

 

[Gadzorks]

If lambert is banned the club will probably have grounds to permanently server his employment (unless they knew all the details and they don't have a clause for essentially bringing the game into dispute) or suspend him for the banned period.

Given the zero tolerance stance with players atm i expect he will be permanently gone. Tough, but what a stupid thing to do. Especially in the recent post Essendon era.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Gubby and Collingwood are clearly worried. Leon Zwier probably the most expensive litigation lawyer in these parts. And aggressive.

 

[M Malice]

Gubby and Collingwood are clearly worried. Leon Zwier probably the most expensive litigation lawyer in these parts. And aggressive.

i think we could afford this bloke.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

i think we could afford this bloke.

But will probably end up with this one

 

[Hollow Knight]

Wonder if we can tag along with Gubby's suit, or is it going to be a case of Gubby saying "it wasn't me! Lambo and Lachie framed me!"

 

[MSB ROYS]

Queue a Simpson's lawyer picture...

 

[winged1]

View attachment 304541

Your stance on Lambo has changed recently, what he was doing in GWS not translating to Bris?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Your stance on Lambo has changed recently, what he was doing in GWS not translating to Bris?

Wait, you got all that from a Seinfeld meme?

 

[winged1]

Wait, you got all that from a Seinfeld meme?

I am very perceptive.