Offical Nathan Bracken Thread

[Ricketts]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Alan Wise is the best left hand bowler in the country

...............

piece of ******** Hacks from NSW

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Give Paul Rofe a shot.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Give Paul Rofe a shot.

While Shaun Tait's injured IMO only two bowlers are worthy and good enough for the oppurtunity.

Paul Rofe and Brett Dorey.

I'd pick Rofe because he's been getting the job done for longer and is younger.

I've excluded the Queensland two because its obvious they're not in the selectors plans and neither will be selected for the national team in the future.

 

[CURVE]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Warne didn't knock over the South African yesterday either, maybe he should never play another test. McGrath treatened no one, maybe he should never play another test as well. Credit where credit is due, the South African batsmen were brilliant yesterday, they were able to withstand a very good bowling attack with a lot of variety.

The real issues to come out of yesterday's events are:

1. Symonds should never play another test. Further development of Lee's and Bracken's batting (both are fairly competent) will reduce the need for an batting all-rounder.

2. MacGill should be a permanent member of the team. 3 pace and 2 spinners is the perfect bowling attack.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Warne didn't knock over the South African yesterday either, maybe he should never play another test. McGrath treatened no one, maybe he should never play another test as well. Credit where credit is due, the South African batsmen were brilliant yesterday, they were able to withstand a very good bowling attack with a lot of variety.

The real issues to come out of yesterday's events are:

1. Symonds should never play another test. Further development of Lee's and Bracken's batting (both are fairly competent) will reduce the need for an batting all-rounder.

2. MacGill should be a permanent member of the team. 3 pace and 2 spinners is the perfect bowling attack.

You're overlooking the point.

Bracken isn't and will never be an international class test bowler.

He'll never be a 'competent' batsman either. Take him away from home to somewhere like India and see how many runs he's got in him.

Bracken's played about 10 test matches now and has clearly shown he is not up to standard. For a tall man he gets little to no extra bounce. He bowls at a tame pace. Only swings it when the pitch suits, meaning when every other bowler's getting swing on normal wickets he doesn't swing it. Brett Lee swings it much more and can even do so on tame wickets.

The game against India in Sydney a couple of years ago should've been his last test. The true sign of quality is producing when the conditions don't suit and he'll NEVER be able to do that. The ease in which the Indian batsman played him in that test-match gives a fair indication as to his ability. He was made to look like an absolute amatuer.

And if you want 3 pace bowlers and 2 spinners then Bracken is not even close to the answer.

At the moment Rofe/Lewis would be the two most deserving. Rofe deserve's to be slightly ahead because of his age. And Brett Dorey is also a much superior bowler to Bracken and unlike Bracken he can use his height to extract steep bounce.

Shaun Tait's easily in the best 3 fast bowlers in the country, and once he builds up some match fitness again and gets some games under his belt, he'll be back.

 

[utility]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Bracken = hacken.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Can people here not realise why the selectors are looking for an all-rounder.

We will be playing 2 spinners and 2 quicks at the MCG and SCG (most likely) and therefore we need someone who can bat and bowl.

The selectors rarely ever go with 5 batsmen and i can bat my bottom dollar that they won't go in with 5 batsmen against this South African attack or the English 4 seam attack next summer.

The selectors believe that the 2 spinners and 2 seamers is the best attack we have at the moment. However, it is unconventional and as such we need to find 1 or 2 seam bowlers for back-up when Warne or Macgill retires.

Obviously, Shane Watson or Andrew Symonds will play this role in the near future. Symonds is a confidence player.

Look at him in the one dayers, after the innings at the World Cup he was transformed.

Hopefully, it can happen in the Test Matchs as well. However, he was until the end of the SCG match to do something otherwise, YIPPIE KI AY

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

On Bracken, yesterday he bowled like crap, i don't expect him to be able to run through line-ups. But, he should be able to keep it tight and trouble batsmen.

If he can't, well then Clark should get a go or anyone else who is getting wickets at FC level. Shaun Tait will most likely be in the mix when he is fit and he will be a good bowler for Australia because he bowls and aims right at the stumps.

Brett Dorey sounds promisng, but i don't know much about him so i'll leave that to other people to comment.

 

[Cooldude]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Can people here not realise why the selectors are looking for an all-rounder.

We will be playing 2 spinners and 2 quicks at the MCG and SCG (most likely) and therefore we need someone who can bat and bowl.

Wow, Einstein, thanks for stating the obvious that many have known for three months, good to see you finally work that out!

And the selectors are off the bonkers with their search for an allrounder, because quite frankly, we don't have one single allrounder around the country who can hold up a spot in the Test team with either one of bat or ball, so it's a waste of time and effort

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Symonds and Watson can hold the spot up with bat alone.

Symonds averages 42.97 with the bat at FC level

and Watson averages 44.93 at FC level with the bat.

I'd suggest to you "Cooldude" that both these players have the ability and it's just a matter of converting that ability to runs and wickets.

 

[Cooldude]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Symonds never strung big Shield seasons together to push his case, he got a spot because the selectors "want an allrounder", and put him in when he never deserved it

42 at first class level's hardly anything to rave about either

He has never dominated with the bat in Shield cricket to ever suggest he can become a standalone Test batsman, so if he's gonna hold up a spot on his batting alone, he'd need to improve by a hundred folds

There are better batsman than him that deserve to be picked, he shouldn't be picked ahead because he can bowl some innocous medium pacers or offies that don't even scare club level batsmen

 

[F/D]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Hodges bowling > Symonds bowling.

 

[Partridge]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

And the selectors are off the bonkers with their search for an allrounder, because quite frankly, we don't have one single allrounder around the country who can hold up a spot in the Test team with either one of bat or ball, so it's a waste of time and effort

Totally agree. Genuine Test allrounders come along about once a decade if you're lucky. Before Flintoff there hasn't been one since Ian Botham. Australia hasn't had a genuine allrounder since Keith Miller. If you are lucky enough to stumble upon a genuine Test allrounder great but don't try and manufacture them out of rubbish players who bat a bit, bowl a bit but do neither very well. Otherwise you go 6 batsmen, 1 wicketkeeper and 4 frontline bowlers. Simple.

Another reason the selectors have lost their brains is that the 4th bowler at the moment - Bracken - is not up to the job. Replace him with Tait when fit and this mythical quest of theirs might stop.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

I think you'll find no-one expects Symonds to bowl marthon spells like Flintoff.

My point is the Australian selectors believe that in the right conditions Mcgrath, Lee, Warne and Macgill is our most potent bowling line-up. I would expect this bowling line-up to play at all Australian venues other than Perth and maybe Brisbane.

Now, if you go in with that attack you will need someone to bowl several overs of seam up stuff especially if you bowl first.

That person is currently Symonds. I'm sure you can see the logic behind that.

If not than you obviously have no idea how a cricket team functions. If the selectors take 2 spinners into the game then they would like to have 2 seamers and 1 guy to provide relief from an end. No-one expects Symonds to destroy the line-up. All they want is 8 or so overs an innings just to keep it tight and snag a wicket.

The theory is that Symonds is a good enough batsmen to hold down a spot with the bat at 6 which i believe he is but he is yet to prove this with a decent score.

So, lets get one thing straight. Australia is not expecting Symonds to perform like Flintoff which some people keep going on about. Watson is our most promising all-rounder and as we have seen he has a long way to go.

But, surely you can see what is expected of Symonds.

Yes he has been crap with the bat so far but we have seen what you can do at ODI level and i have faith that he can produce such innings at test level.

Your constant harpings about him really prove you are yet to grasp his role in the side or you just refuse to think logically.

 

[Cooldude]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

I think you'll find no-one expects Symonds to bowl marthon spells like Flintoff.

When in the world have I ever said he would?

And I think you're not one to talk on "thinking on things"

If Symonds has to be justified as an allrounder, then he has to be up to Test standards with one of bat or ball, his batting is not Test standard, and his bowling is club standard. End of story

I'll see you make up some rubbish again and talk to yourself with another 10 paragraphs, don't really care.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

When in the world have I ever said he would?

And I think you're not one to talk on "thinking on things"

If Symonds has to be justified as an allrounder, then he has to be up to Test standards with one of bat or ball, his batting is not Test standard, and his bowling is club standard. End of story

I'll see you make up some rubbish again and talk to yourself with another 10 paragraphs, don't really care.

Symonds batting is up to test standard IMO.

Obviously, we disagree on that.

 

[johnnyhoward]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Bracken's a good bowler. He did get an easy ride being from NSW and all though, if you remember a few years back when he got picked for Australia Matty Inness' figures dwarfed his. How Bracken got a game over him I'll never know. And Inness would still be ahead of him if Victoria didn't ruin his career.

That said, he has deserved his selection for the Windies series based on his solid Sheild season.

Also a question I've been asking but never got a response, didn't Bracken start out as a bit of a batsman? That's what I read somewhere.

 

[Cooldude]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Symonds batting is up to test standard IMO.

Obviously, we disagree on that.

And your opinion has had a reputation of being wrong

 

[Mike33]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

2. MacGill should be a permanent member of the team. 3 pace and 2 spinners is the perfect bowling attack.

Agree entirely. Especially when the spinners are of the quality of Warne and MacGill.

Howevere, i think you'll find that 5 batsmen and a keeper (as good as he is) isn't the perfect Batting lineup.

It's a bit of a trade off situation, but with Gilly so badly out of form (mind you, yes, he could turn it around any second) and our middle order far from settled I'd be very hesitant to take in 5 bowlers at the moment.

 

[Cooldude]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

our middle order far from settled

Amazing comment given a bloke just made a double ton and Mike Hussey's been scoring runs for fun

 

[Mike33]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

Amazing comment given a bloke just made a double ton and Mike Hussey's been scoring runs for fun

Your right, but Gilly is in career worst form, and Symonds probably shouldn't be in there at all, he hasn't done anything.

That aside, the two players you mentioned havn't been really tested yet.

Hussey had what you would call a successful tour against the 'deadly' attack of the West Indies. In the first innings against the Proteas, he made 23 from 51 balls. Granted, it's a start. But nothing to rave about. He then came out in the second innings with little pressure after the Aussies had made a very solid start, and made a half century. Again a good result, but let's not get too excited.

Hodgey looked very good in the first innings and the second innings speaks for itself. However he has played two tests, and despite having just knocked up a double ton, there are some factors (eg. Clarkey re-emerging) that - should he not perform - could have him ommitted from the test side.

I'm not doubting the ability of them, I'd be stupid if i did. But i think they all need a few games together to really gel together and I'd like to see one of them really pull through in a pressure situation.

Just my opinion...

 

[Cooldude]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

I would like to think 7 counts as lower order

First 3 is top order, then the next 3 middle, then the rest are lower order or tailenders

Another amazing comment to say Hodge and Hussey haven't been tested yet, Hodge's 203 was a very testy innings especially in his first 50 where he had to totally guts it out

And Hussey has looked more than comfortable against the South Africans.

And those two put on a 100 partnership 2nd dig when we were under pressure

Both are extremely experienced cricketers who has found international cricket not much trouble to adapt to at all.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

I always maintain that the first two are the top order

3-6 middle order

7 -11 Lower order.

 

[johnnyhoward]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

You hear Hodge referred to as a top-order batsman because he has batted at 3 for Victoria, so I think:
Top order - 1-3
Middle order - 4-7
Lower order (tail) - 8-11

The reason for me putting middle order till 7 is that, in modern cricket, at no 7 you rarely have a crap batsman unless you're playing 5 bowlers. You either have a keeper, an all-rounder, or another batsman. Sure, sometimes you have a bowler who can bat at no. 8, like Vettori or Pollock, but they are picked for their bowling, usually a more batting type player is picked for no 7.

 

[apollo_creed]

Re: Bracken should never play a Test match again

I always maintain that the first two are the top order

3-6 middle order

7 -11 Lower order.

Number 3 is top order.