Official 2011 Draft Day Thread

[cotter101]

I guess the question is, do you pick up a KPP if you don't really rate any of them? Because maybe that's the thinking that went on.

I think they rated Tomlinson but I think with Longer available (and he also fills a massive need) they just could not pass him up.

 

[Jubair]

We could pick up heaps of KPPs at next years draft. Our established KPDs - Merrett, Maguire and Patfull arent that old, mid-late 20s, so they've got about 4-5 years left, so if we draft KPPs next year we can easily start developing them and by the time the above mentioned retire, our draftees ideally would have gained a bit of experience.

 

[chopperduck]

I think they rated Tomlinson but I think with Longer available (and he also fills a massive need) they just could not pass him up.

I agree with this. We were pretty well link to both Tomlinson and Haynes, GWS clearly wanted to make sure they got Haynes, and obviously in our ranked list Longer was higher up than Tomlinson.

The fact that so many KPP fell throught the draft, and weren't pick up not only by us, but every other club must speak volumes on what the club recruiters thought. Remembering, it wasn't just 1 or 2, but a whole heap of players 'BF thinking' had being taken fell through.

I am firmly behind the club not taking a player if they don't rate them, just because they are a needed position. Unfortunately, we do find ourselves needing some depth at both ends, so we are going to have to fill that sooner or later. Perhaps we might be happy giving these guys a try via rookie list, but didn't want to draft them.

Have to remember, we got Merrett, Patfull and Goose all cheap, and McKeever from overseas, so we seem to do well at pulling a defender out of our 'arse' so to speak, without having to draft one. It would really do wonders for my stress levels if we had a nice solid young CHB though.

 

[Swanny10]

I agree with this. We were pretty well link to both Tomlinson and Haynes, GWS clearly wanted to make sure they got Haynes, and obviously in our ranked list Longer was higher up than Tomlinson.

The fact that so many KPP fell throught the draft, and weren't pick up not only by us, but every other club must speak volumes on what the club recruiters thought. Remembering, it wasn't just 1 or 2, but a whole heap of players 'BF thinking' had being taken fell through.

I am firmly behind the club not taking a player if they don't rate them, just because they are a needed position. Unfortunately, we do find ourselves needing some depth at both ends, so we are going to have to fill that sooner or later. Perhaps we might be happy giving these guys a try via rookie list, but didn't want to draft them.

Have to remember, we got Merrett, Patfull and Goose all cheap, and McKeever from overseas, so we seem to do well at pulling a defender out of our 'arse' so to speak, without having to draft one. It would really do wonders for my stress levels if we had a nice solid young CHB though.

We do Mckeever, Lisle and even Lester could play at CHB. All are young and very promising.

 

[BuntonRules]

I guess the question is, do you pick up a KPP if you don't really rate any of them? Because maybe that's the thinking that went on.

I think they rated Tomlinson but I think with Longer available (and he also fills a massive need) they just could not pass him up.

These 2 posts about sum it up, IMO. Bet you a beer if Henry Schade was still there at 30, Yeo would not be on our list.

 

[GabbaMan]

I don't really understand the concern over the so-called lack of KPP's recruiting.

We have:

McKeever, Niall 196cm
Merrett, Daniel 196cm
Lisle, Jordan 196cm
Brown, Jonathan 195cm
Staker, Brent 196cm
Matt Maguire "is a strong and fearless key defender" 192cm
Cornelius, Aaron 192cm (Better suited as a 3rd tall but could hold down FF)

The two Patricks although not overly tall, IMO could, later on, with additional bulk and strenghtening, play as KPP's:
Karnezis, Patrick 191 Mobile CHF
Wearden, Patrick191 Spring-healed CHB

Afterall Justin Leppitsch was only 191cm
Matthew Lloyd - 191 cm
Plugger was a 191cm FF
Craig Bolton 189cm Full Back

I think we are slowing getting a backbone.

 

[chopperduck]

We do Mckeever, Lisle and even Lester could play at CHB. All are young and very promising.

They could, but at this stage at least, Lisle looks like he might be more of a forward for us, McKeever is promising but still has a way to go, certainly no certainty. Lester is also probably not quiet what we have in mind for CHB. I think we have other plans for him. Being able to grab someone like Schade would have been ideal, just someone who is probably a bit more certain than our current crop.

As i said in another post, with no injuries our KPP spines in both seniors and 2nds is actually pretty good, probably is there is no depth, and an injury to the best 22 starts to rip the guts out of the 2nds. It woudl be good to have other options so those boys have a bit more of a solid team to play with week in and week out. Also means we have more players developing, or at least probably developing in the position they should be.

 

[Mayestro]

Reasonably content with our drafting (happily I was in the draft Longer camp), though agree with Chopper that it would be comforting to have 1-2 more promising talls developing.

However I'm sure the club isn't oblivious to the problem, and has a strategy mapped out for our window. Whether it's a forward line more reliant on a bevy of medium talls as some have stated, or perhaps we're relatively confident of gaining the services of a promising young forward next trade period (Tippet).

That's not to say that I think they're incapable of misjudgement, but at this stage they've some credit in the bank and I'm happy to see how it plays out.

 

[Old Den]

I don't really understand the concern over the so-called lack of KPP's recruiting.

We have:

McKeever, Niall 196cm
Merrett, Daniel 196cm
Lisle, Jordan 196cm
Brown, Jonathan 195cm
Staker, Brent 196cm
Matt Maguire "is a strong and fearless key defender" 192cm
Cornelius, Aaron 192cm (Better suited as a 3rd tall but could hold down FF)

The two Patricks although not overly tall, IMO could, later on, with additional bulk and strenghtening, play as KPP's:
Karnezis, Patrick 191 Mobile CHF
Wearden, Patrick191 Spring-healed CHB

Afterall Justin Leppitsch was only 191cm
Matthew Lloyd - 191 cm
Plugger was a 191cm FF
Craig Bolton 189cm Full Back

I think we are slowing getting a backbone.

Not forgetting Lester who,though some may disagree,I think at 191cm can develop into a KPP.

We have just acquired Lisle from Hawthorn...Sydney,in 1994 and 2001 respectively,acquired Lockett and Hall from the Saints who had played a combined total of 183 games for that Club and who between them played 260 games for the Swans and kicked 929 goals over a 14 year period.

There is more than one way to address KPP needs and I say this as one who has posted several times recently regarding our KPP future.There is very likely a plan in place to cover eventualities and it seems getting Longer,if possible, was the top priority in this draft.

 

[chopperduck]

It is true Old Den, and we have Free Agency just around the corner as well. We very well might invest in the forwards we have and try get something out of Retzy, Acorn or Lisle, and if nothing sticks we very well might just go shopping for one as such.

 

[Swanny10]

Not forgetting Lester who,though some may disagree,I think at 191cm can develop into a KPP.

We have just acquired Lisle from Hawthorn...Sydney,in 1994 and 2001 respectively,acquired Lockett and Hall from the Saints who had played a combined total of 183 games for that Club and who between them played 260 games for the Swans and kicked 929 goals over a 14 year period.

There is more than one way to address KPP needs and I say this as one who has posted several times recently regarding our KPP future.There is very likely a plan in place to cover eventualities and it seems getting Longer,if possible, was the top priority in this draft.

Yep as I mentioned before I agree Lester can play CHB. He may be a little under-sized but I feel he will develop into a big strong boy after a few more years in the system.

Also from what I saw from Mckeever I think he will make it. To be able to adapt to AFL standard as quickly as he did considering how long he's been playing the game I can really see him going to the next level this year.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Also from what I saw from Mckeever I think he will make it. To be able to adapt to AFL standard as quickly as he did considering how long he's been playing the game I can really see him going to the next level this year.

Hopefully he can improve his kicking action over the preseason.

 

[Ironmonger]

I'm more on the side of those who are a bit worried about our KPP stocks, to be honest.

The way Lions teams under Matthews and Voss have always played is to have big gorilla-type KPPs at each end of the ground to ensure that there was always a long option going forward, and to discourage the opposition from bombing it long and putting our defenders under pressure. And certainly under Matthews it worked really well. I felt it was the basis of our success in 2009, too.

It's a sensible strategy, and it relies on having a couple of big, pack-breaking KPPs at each end of the ground. It's not a question of how tall they are so much as whether they can physically impose themselves. I could prove to be wrong, but I doubt Lester will ever be able to do that in the same way as Leppitsch, or Cornelius as Lynch, even if they are the same height. Of course we won't really know until they've spent a few more pre-seasons bulking up in the gym.

Out of the last few drafts the only players who really look like they could fill that role are Retzlaff and Maguire, and at picks 84 and 91 they weren't exactly big investments.

Maybe Voss is trying to get us playing a different way. Maybe we've always felt that someone was available at each of our higher picks that was just too good to pass up. But I reckon it would be a sensible strategy to try and get at least one big-bodied KPP in each draft, just to increase the probability of us churning out as many as we need.

Not quite sure what to make of this draft, to be honest. I think maybe I'll feel a little more comfortable if we rookie list a couple of the reasonable KPP prospects that were passed up yesterday, if only to give us a chance of developing some depth there.

 

[cotter101]

I think the club will try to develop Wearden into a FF. He certainly has the tools.

 

[spotthedog1]

To be fair, I was also referring to your comments in another thread on the boys tanking next year, which made me feel ill. In the light of day though, I understand the point that you are making, but I simply do not see the point in not playing a season to reach the finals. Vossy mentioned as much in a LionsTV video recently and I could not agree with him more.

On another topic, I agree with you to the extent that we shouldn't universally praise the recruiters or club officials, but given our trade week, the lack of depth in this years draft for KPPs (or anything, really), and the change in management and new coaching staff, I have to say that the club looks like its stopped walking backwards and is warming up for a powerful forward sprint. Pardon my terrible metaphor. Rather than having a crack at the recruiters for a job that they are experts in and that we have a limited understanding of, I think it would be a better use of our time to be content for now and have a look to see what this new Brisbane Lions outfit can do next March.

Fair enough Ian. I think that in everything, you have to have short term and long term goals. I can understand the point of view that says "finals must always be a short term goal", but IMHO, just think we'd be better off saying "short term goal in 2012 is to get maximum games into our youngsters, even if it means losing a few more games, to build towards our long term goal of winning a premiership".

I agree that the club is looking promising, if we look at who we lost and who we gained over the trade and draft weeks, I think we came out slightly up. I don't see the problem with speculating about these things though... I'm getting rather annoyed at the number of people saying "we can't make judgements on players, we haven't even seen them play", which i think is a rather stupid thing to say on a forum built around speculation. Yes, it's all speculation, yes, we could be wrong, and we're more likely to be wrong that proper recruiters, but we can still speculate. So long as we're open to the fact that we may be wrong...

@BobbyBeecroft - I have no problem with you being sceptical of me, and I don't need to answer to you. However on an opinion based forum, I gave my opinion. Just because you don't agree with my opinion, doesn't mean you get to berate me. So I didn't like the Yeo pick. That's 1 out of 4. The other 3 I thought were alright. Not great, but alright. It doesn't mean that I'm going to protest the club, boycott the club, or anything else, it just means that I thought we could've done better at that pick... Realistically, Yeo split the journos and recruiters. Half of them rated him, half of them didn't. From what I saw, I didn't. If, after a few years, Yeo is a gun, I'll be perfectly happy to admit that I was wrong and have a gun in our team. I just didn't see the upside potential that the club did, and I said so on an opinion based forum. So sue me.

@Cotter - I think you may be right. I looked him up, and the club's gone the speccy pick again. Looks like he's played both fwd and mid, but I'd be surprised to see him play mid in the big leagues. Would not surprise me if they thought him a FF prospect.

I agree that we're lower than ideal on KPP, but looking at the clubs strategy, they really mustn't have rated any of the remaining KPPs. I thought Frost, Boseley, Dobosz were relatively high among the KPPs of this draft, but I reckon the club must've thought that even the better (bar a couple) KPPs of this draft didn't have the potential to be a-graders. Which makes me far more happy with the Lisle trade. Realistically, we picked him at 29, which I'm quite happy with, considering the effort the hawks have put into him, and that we KNOW that he'll be playable - there is very little risk, as the future value of a prospect is much more clear cut at age 21 rather than age 18. Very happy with our traders there... (or should I not say that I'm happy with that trade - after all, he hasn't played senior games for us yet...)

 

[cmt26]

I am in agreement with most people who have posted concerns about the KPP stocks that we currently have & that we have drafted a lot of 188-194cm players, who don't seem tall enough to play KP roles in the modern game.

This is a very fair & logical assessment.

I think Weardon, judging by reports will be slated to play a third tall/midfield role, most likely as future back up/insurance for Lester & Staker, possibly in the same team. The recruiting staff identified him as a player who was Pendlebury-esque in traffic, and with full time training (which he has yet to experience) maybe the raw tools are there to turn him into an AFL standard player.

Yeo is an interesting one. I've also heard reports about his struggles under pressure, but otherwise he is regarded as a good prospect. So we should all give him the required seasons of development to see how he pans out.

The reports of this draft are that it is extremely weak and there isnt much past the top 20-25. I think yeo & Weardon are very much speculative picks that Hadley feels may make it & that the recruiting team didn't rate many of the KPP's in this draft and will hold out for next year on that front.

The trading this year, was excellent IMO, Zorko will be a nice pick up and I am patiently waiting to see where they will slot Lisle.

I'm hoping we manage to sneak Tippett in free agency next season, but am worried about the cost and GC with more potentially homesick youngsters may have more bargaining power than us.

Overall, so far I am giving our off season a thumbs up but with some concerns over our KPP depth.

 

[irel]

I'm hoping we manage to sneak Tippett in free agency next season

Tippett will not be available under free agency next year.

 

[Grimreepah]

"Elliot's Yo-Yo Form"

Getting in before Sports Tonight.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Sports Tonight no longer exists.

Yes correcting that is how I have chosen to spend part of my Saturday night.

 

[Grimreepah]

The Elliot Yeo pick has a sense of fool's gold about it. Hadley has favoured footballing nous over athletic ability in the past, but maybe that perception came about because it was based on a small sample. Both Yeo and Wearden seem to disprove that theory.

If we see them in the preseason I will be curious to see what their football smarts are like.

 

[notting18]

Sports Tonight no longer exists.

Yes correcting that is how I have chosen to spend part of my Saturday night.

Sports Tonight exists...just not as independent programming. It is just the name of the sports segment

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

@BobbyBeecroft - I have no problem with you being sceptical of me, and I don't need to answer to you. However on an opinion based forum, I gave my opinion. Just because you don't agree with my opinion, doesn't mean you get to berate me. So I didn't like the Yeo pick. That's 1 out of 4. The other 3 I thought were alright. Not great, but alright. It doesn't mean that I'm going to protest the club, boycott the club, or anything else, it just means that I thought we could've done better at that pick... Realistically, Yeo split the journos and recruiters. Half of them rated him, half of them didn't. From what I saw, I didn't. If, after a few years, Yeo is a gun, I'll be perfectly happy to admit that I was wrong and have a gun in our team. I just didn't see the upside potential that the club did, and I said so on an opinion based forum. So sue me.

Didn't berate you, just asked some fairly simple questions - that you failed to answer. Quite clearly you have never seen Yeo play live & have based your opinion a short highlight clip along with BF & media talk. You are amongst the thousands of BF 'draft experts' that scepticism becomes a middle name for in all things draft.

OK have an opinion but don't turn all 'victim' (berate/sue) if someone exposes the basis of the opinion is paper thin.

 

[irel]

EQ's assessment of Brisbane's draft

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/done-and-drafted-20111126-1o0kc.html


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/done-and-drafted-20111126-1o0kc.html

BRISBANE LIONS: The Lions, likewise, had a few good picks to work with. It's worked out well for them. Billy Longer's a teenager and no quick fix in the ruck (look at Richmond's very talented Ty Vickery as an example of how fair we need to be when assessing the first steps of young talls), but he should be able to play some games next year. Sam Docherty is a super, skilful talent, and Elliott Yeo is a bit like a cheaper version of Stephen Coniglio. He's a bubbly, smart player who moves well and will give their midfield something different. The one thing they didn't prioritise (in choosing Longer over Tomlinson) was a standout key position player. Expect them to hone in on one next November late pick; Patrick Weardon gives them a young tall to start working on in the meantime.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/done-and-drafted-20111126-1o0kc.html#ixzz1eqqj2VAX

 

[NoelMugavin]

No, i'm annoyed at taking a player at 30 that the recruiters SAY they rated ~20. If you want to blind faith follow your recruiters, not sure why you're here. Forums generally aren't for blind faith. I'm not going to go "wow, he must be awesome" just because we picked him.

I didn't get to watch much of Yeo, but I didn't really think heaps of what I saw. And since then I've read reports around the place. Some of the most common terms used to describe Yeo have been "panicky", "inconsistent", and "can't handle pressure". Admittedly, there've also been several positives thrown up about him, and so if he can work on his negatives, he could be a good pick up. For me, if we'd taken him at 47, I'd have had no worries. I just didn't rate him at 30, and he's not someone I'm going to get my knickers in a twist for any time soon. If he turns out great, that's awesome, and I'll be the first to cheer. But I just didn't think he was a bargain at 30, and I don't see why that's a problem.

great post!

 

[John]

great post!

How does one define great?