O'hailpin project failure

[thylacine60]

Funny that, Jonathon Brown when asked who is the toughest defender he has play against answered Simon Prestigiacomo, whose opinion is more valid to me, yours or Jonathon's let me think.

Jonathon Brown wouldn't even know how to pronounce Presta............Preztti..........Persta.................ah, forget it.

 

[koutamarto]

Yeah I dont mind carlos. i would definately keep him on for another year.

What about his brother? Is he the same sort of player? I heard someone say he is similar to buddy?

 

[Blues_Man]

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to pick up Rattens comments (on the couch) on the O'hailpin boys suggested that this project is a failure. He had nothing encouraging to say about Aisake who is now playing Bullants 2nds despite Clokes injury and Acklands promotion. He also admitted that Setanta is struggling. I love Setanta's passion and work ethic but he is now 25 years old and still pretty far off the standard of a decent AFL player and with his age doesnt have much if any time left to improve. If he ever did improve to to an elite standard in say 2 years, he could give us 2 years of good service before his body would start to limit his ability.

I know alot of people are in denial, and are biased with their opinions, but its safe to say this project has failed. Were not going to play finals with the calibre of these players in our team!

It does take a troublemaker to try and twist Rattens words though..Ratten never said the project was a failure ..he said Carlos played pretty well against the Lions.

I suggest Carlton supporters veiw the segment before taking the word of some poster who trys to interpret Rattens words to make a negative thread.

 

[magpies10]

Marty Clarke cost the Pies 2 games this year, by letting his opponent kick match winning goals late in the game i.e. V Blues and V North. His trademark round-ball type floaters are becoming a liability and provide plenty of rebound opportunity for your opponents. There's a bit of a difference between what's written in those HUN-Collingwood Newsletter overhype liftouts and reality.

Bit harsh in the Carlton game where we were 6 goals down at 3/4 time wouldn't say late goals cost us the game.

 

[len_jet]

Well at least you can take solace in the fact that the Irish experiment worked for Melbourne and is working for Sydney, Brisbane and Collingwood

Ahh try Melbourne, Sydney and Collingwood... Begley is struggling at Brisbane.

The only team you can commend there is Melbourne. They were able to develop one of the hardest players to develop in the game, a tall ruckman/KPP.

Have a look at the difficulty of trying to get tall KPP players to develop when they have played the game for 5-10 years already as juniors. Carlton are trying to develop not only three Irish talls from virtually scratch but throw in the development of Hampson who played soccer until the age of 16 I would say their Ruckman/KPP development is coming along nicely.

Collingwood and Sydney are yet to prove anything they have developed two running midfield players. Kennely is streaks ahead of Clarke and do we need to point out the omission of clarke earlier in the season. As parrot has stated his skills are letting him down horribly and unlike last year teams are exploiting his lack of skill and knowledge of the game rather than ignoring him altogether!

 

[Mr.X]

The time has come to cut our losses with these 2.

Setanta has not been able to establish himself during the weakest period in our history, and will struggle to get a game now that our depth is improving.

They are both VFL grade only

 

[jonoman89]

its unfair to make a decision on carlos this year - he is obviously being affected by his lack of pre-season. 2009 is the year which decides carlos's fate.

how long had aisake been on the rookie list? can we keep him on it?

 

[len_jet]

The time has come to cut our losses with these 2.

Setanta has not been able to establish himself during the weakest period in our history, and will struggle to get a game now that our depth is improving.

They are both VFL grade only

What losses? They are KPP size and project players that are costing us virtually nothing in terms of salary cap!

 

[Setanta The Irish]

how foolish you will all feel when I, Setanta The Irish become one of the Carlton greats.

 

[Mike_blues]

Cant understand why we haven't even given Aisake a game yet, for all the potential he has, why not give him a game at AFL level (at least back when he was playing decent footy for the Ants)

i agree
might be the type who hits the big league and does something

 

[Beloved]

Pfft, I won't even bother to read the opening post.

 

[Jimthegreat]

I thought Setanta did a good job last year. He's been good again this year at least when played down back. Don't know what some people are talking about. We lack KP players so we don't want him leaving in a hurry.

 

[len_jet]

i agree
might be the type who hits the big league and does something

was ready to debut but got injured and missed the rest of the year last year... i dont think his form has been any good this year... additionally i when we were spoilt for ruckmen he was playing ok... now we are struggling for ruckmen and he is in the magoo's magoos..

 

[Bluebear]

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to pick up Rattens comments (on the couch) on the O'hailpin boys suggested that this project is a failure. He had nothing encouraging to say about Aisake who is now playing Bullants 2nds despite Clokes injury and Acklands promotion. He also admitted that Setanta is struggling. I love Setanta's passion and work ethic but he is now 25 years old and still pretty far off the standard of a decent AFL player and with his age doesnt have much if any time left to improve. If he ever did improve to to an elite standard in say 2 years, he could give us 2 years of good service before his body would start to limit his ability.

I know alot of people are in denial, and are biased with their opinions, but its safe to say this project has failed. Were not going to play finals with the calibre of these players in our team!

Failed?
That depends on what you thought the outcome would be?
Of course, beating some of the best forwards in the competition last year, and holding a rampagin Brown to 3 goals in 3/4 after Waite had 3 kicked on him in 10 mins.......might be considered a failure.........if you were expecting the next SOS.

Given that his body hasn't been bashed and crashed in this sport from the age of 18 you might be surprised to see how long Setanta goes.

Aisake, it's true, should have had a dig at the seniors by now, but he was in the best players in the two's, which probably puts him in the top 25% of AFL footballers in the country.......not bad for a guy in his third or so year.

My opinion is that Setanta will make an AFL backman, and had an interupted pre-season which has been well documented. Barring illness and injury he will get better through the season and be a very good player next year.
Aisake needs to step up, but is still very young for a ruckman.

Ackland wasn't selected on form BTW........he was selected to protect Hampson and Kreuzer from 4 quarters of being spanked by Charman. Ackland doesn't care enough to have his confidence shattered.

Given that Hampson was rucking in the Ants, can you be sure that Aisake didn't go down to the 2's to get a full game in the ruck? ala Hampson last year?

 

[Big Delut]

Failed?
That depends on what you thought the outcome would be?
Of course, beating some of the best forwards in the competition last year, and holding a rampagin Brown to 3 goals in 3/4 after Waite had 3 kicked on him in 10 mins.......might be considered a failure.........if you were expecting the next SOS.

Given that his body hasn't been bashed and crashed in this sport from the age of 18 you might be surprised to see how long Setanta goes.

Aisake, it's true, should have had a dig at the seniors by now, but he was in the best players in the two's, which probably puts him in the top 25% of AFL footballers in the country.......not bad for a guy in his third or so year.

My opinion is that Setanta will make an AFL backman, and had an interupted pre-season which has been well documented. Barring illness and injury he will get better through the season and be a very good player next year.
Aisake needs to step up, but is still very young for a ruckman.

Ackland wasn't selected on form BTW........he was selected to protect Hampson and Kreuzer from 4 quarters of being spanked by Charman. Ackland doesn't care enough to have his confidence shattered.

Given that Hampson was rucking in the Ants, can you be sure that Aisake didn't go down to the 2's to get a full game in the ruck? ala Hampson last year?

Top post BB

 

[pumped]

Also think Big Delut makes some great points about Setanta. I believe he has already shown enough over his career to suggest he has the ability. He is still only 25, has had limited game time this year and an interrupted pre season. Like many on our list he seems to lack consistent confidence but the up sides for him imo far outweigh the negatives.

 

[jimmymetch]

how can a player thats come from ireland to learn this game be expected to play foward one week..then get a tap on the shoulder during the week and told he will have to hold down back the next week..only to have another tap on the shoulder the following week to be told he will have to be used as a ruckman the next game because our other ruckman has gone down with injury..

its fair enough that players of his size must be able to adapt to different positions as they are generally pretty versatile but surely someone in his position cant be swapped around in position every week and be expected to hit some consistent and really good form..

we need to settle him in one place and stick with him there and hope for the best..hes shown form both foward and back but i think ruck should be cut out of his game and should only be used if a ruckman goes down in a game..

personally i would prefer to see him anchored as a tall foward as hes shown he cant kick straight at goal and over distance and when he does kick one it does lift the team..

however even if he was anchored to the backline i wouldnt mind..as long as there is a suitable player for him to play on..

all in all setanta deserves a decent go at it and i dont think we have been totally fair with our use of him..

 

[HBF]

I reckon Carlos is getting there. It has to be remembered that he didn't have alot of time put into him, unlike clubs like Collingwood where they have been able to use their development coaches on Marty Clarke, whereas, 2008 is the first year Carlton have had development coaches.

I'm a huge wrap for Carlos, and if the club could just let him settle in a position, even in one third of the ground, it will be beneficial not only for him, but for the club as well.

I don't ever believe for one minute that he will be a superstar, but I think he can be a good honest toiler, that will give you it all week in, week out.

 

[Lapp_46]

It does take a troublemaker to try and twist Rattens words though..Ratten never said the project was a failure ..he said Carlos played pretty well against the Lions.

I suggest Carlton supporters veiw the segment before taking the word of some poster who trys to interpret Rattens words to make a negative thread.

If you would have actually read my post properly you would see that i didnt say that Ratten came out and proclaimed the project as a failure, however his comments SUGGESTED (the word i used in my original post) that the project was failing at the moment. He said Sentanta is struggling and the fact that Aisake is playing Bullants 2nd given Clokes injury speaks for itself.

Like ive said i love Setanta's passion, but he is a very average AFL footballer, and everyone here is blind to it. He is 25 already... how much longer do you want to wait?? Your all in denial!

 

[Bluebear]

If you would have actually read my post properly you would see that i didnt say that Ratten came out and proclaimed the project as a failure, however his comments SUGGESTED (the word i used in my original post) that the project was failing at the moment. He said Sentanta is struggling and the fact that Aisake is playing Bullants 2nd given Clokes injury speaks for itself.

Like ive said i love Setanta's passion, but he is a very average AFL footballer, and everyone here is blind to it. He is 25 already... how much longer do you want to wait?? Your all in denial!

No......actually it doesn't speak for itself.

Hampson went from Ants reserves ruck to seniors. Why?
He wanted to ruck a full game and ASKED to go back to the ressies to do so.

Can you be 100% sure that the following didn't happen:
With Hampson rucking in the Ants, rather than let Aisake play forward or back, that the Ants (read CFC) decided to play him as a first ruck for a full game........and the only option was the reserves.......where I might add he was among the best.

 

[The Coach]

If you would have actually read my post properly you would see that i didnt say that Ratten came out and proclaimed the project as a failure, however his comments SUGGESTED (the word i used in my original post) that the project was failing at the moment. He said Sentanta is struggling and the fact that Aisake is playing Bullants 2nd given Clokes injury speaks for itself.

Like ive said i love Setanta's passion, but he is a very average AFL footballer, and everyone here is blind to it. He is 25 already... how much longer do you want to wait?? Your all in denial!

He has not played 40 games yet and 2m players even with an AFL background sometimes don't come good until their mid 20's so if it is ok with you we won't sack him mid-season

 

[len_jet]

If you would have actually read my post properly you would see that i didnt say that Ratten came out and proclaimed the project as a failure, however his comments SUGGESTED (the word i used in my original post) that the project was failing at the moment. He said Sentanta is struggling and the fact that Aisake is playing Bullants 2nd given Clokes injury speaks for itself.

Like ive said i love Setanta's passion, but he is a very average AFL footballer, and everyone here is blind to it. He is 25 already... how much longer do you want to wait?? Your all in denial!

oh dear

Bluebear, thats for an accurate spin on this!

I think you will also find that Setanta was what, 20-21 when he came here and picked up the game? Yeah he may be 25 but that is 4 years of playing the game... I think where he is after 4 years is quite good... while he is costing us virtually nothing I saw we persist, the ONLY options (which seems to be elluding to) is to:

Option A)
1. Sack him mid season...
2. Elevate a rookie and the only one we could elevate that would play a similar role would be Sam Jacobs who has been injured and is still pretty raw in body size...

OR

Option B)
1. Sack him at the end of the season...
2. Replace him with a raw, small bodied, KPP player and hope that he develops and doesnt end up like Tim Walsh from the bulldogs (pick 4 with so much "promise")

 

[blues4flag]

oh dear

Bluebear, thats for an accurate spin on this!

I think you will also find that Setanta was what, 20-21 when he came here and picked up the game? Yeah he may be 25 but that is 4 years of playing the game... I think where he is after 4 years is quite good... while he is costing us virtually nothing I saw we persist, the ONLY options (which seems to be elluding to) is to:

Option A)
1. Sack him mid season...
2. Elevate a rookie and the only one we could elevate that would play a similar role would be Sam Jacobs who has been injured and is still pretty raw in body size...

OR

Option B)
1. Sack him at the end of the season...
2. Replace him with a raw, small bodied, KPP player and hope that he develops and doesnt end up like Tim Walsh from the bulldogs (pick 4 with so much "promise")

Moot point, but a rookie can only be elevated for an injured player.

 

[gbatman]

I wouldn't call it a failure, he did all right on one of the leagues best CHF who was playing in front of a winning midfield...

he did have interrupted preseason, and has had to do the hard thing and get fit during the season.



To all you dolts who haven't noticed, he has gained a lot of weight (the good kind) and looks a lot better than what he did at season start.

He does seem to be learning to combat the forwards tricks, he is a good user of the ball, good around his feet and a good decision maker with the ball, just looks awkward at times.
Some might say fevolas kicking style looks awkward...

His spoiling has improved as this was a really weak point of his game, he needs to work on marking overhead....

He could play good footy until he is 34 or 35...

While he is improving (and he is) he is worth it!

 

[Jamo40]

The question is if we had our time again would we have taken the punt on these two? i think not but was worth a try. How much longer should we persist with them, taking pride out of the equation?

I think they've probably got till the end of next year or they're gone, if injuries/fitness hadn't played a part it probably should've been this year.

Setanta isn't in our best 22 and wouldn't have got a game this year if it wasn't for injuries/ suspension. Aisake seems to do ok at the ants but not getting a gig at senior level in the last few years with our ruck division speaks volumes- despite his lack of fitness at times.
I really hope they can develop further though and get full pre seasons under their belts because i love the big clumsy men!