Analysis Our Game Plan under JLO

[dockerfemme]

Something I forgot to mention in my opening gambit. I think Richmond’s spread from the contest is awesome and a big part of their attacking strength. This is something we are poor at. Although speed is a factor, I suspect that being well drilled is also a big factor.

 

[rgauci]

I worry about his ability to sway the group. This is where I think the Saints went down hill after Lyon left. He has the senior / star players on side. They are the ones that need to buy in.

Fyfe, Walters, S.Hill, Mundy need to tow the party line. Fyfe already said something I didn’t like, game plan just needs tweaks, not too many changes too quickly. wTF, pull into line and follow your new coach. If wholesale changes are needed, embrace them.

 

[Taylor]

If we have two of our three tall forwards available, start the game at the first bounce and don't burn the ball by foot as much, and I mean just slightly less, then we can beat anyone.

 

[blue shark]

Something I forgot to mention in my opening gambit. I think Richmond’s spread from the contest is awesome and a big part of their attacking strength. This is something we are poor at. Although speed is a factor, I suspect that being well drilled is also a big factor.

I'm hoping we can use Fyfe more in the Martin role of getting forward, don't know if the captain will agree. Martin missed out on a few
awards, by doing the team thing,.
Same with Sonny rotating with Henry. But we need others to contribute, as our midfield does lack pace?
Acres I feel will become important even if many didn't want him here, but I would be super confident if we could keep SHill on the park.
We have plenty of talent coming through, but the mature agers acquired this year could be the surprise gift.

 

[Stars align]

We were the 4th best intercepting team last year (behind Port, Hawks, Richmond). If Alex Pearce didn't get injured, meaning Hamling didn't have to take the best KPF, then I think we would have been the 2nd best and had two top 5 interceptors in Ryan and Hamling. Ryan ended up 2nd behind McGovern - we must sign him long term!!!!!!!! Hamling was top 4 until Pearce got injured from memory.

I think we had the defensive game plan looking pretty sweet in the first half of the season. We were often inconsistent but there were many times when it was ultra tight and our mids were pressuring the long kick, making it easier for our half backs to intercept. I don't think that game plan needs to change dramatically - we have some good pressure/accountable mids (Tucker/Conca/Brayshaw), and a back line with a bunch of good interceptors in it. We were definitely still missing pressure in the forward line though but I'd put that down to all our talls getting injured. Early in the season we had a heap of marks inside 50 and our pressure was fine because there was no loose ball for the opposition to scoop up with their +1 and walk away with it. Fast forward to tall injury crisis, no marks i50 and we couldn't apply pressure.

With the loss of our wingers we need more run out of defence, to keep our tall forwards out on the field, and add some speed at their feet - to swoop up the ground ball if the talls bring it to to ground. We have the big bodies and footy brains in the middle of the ground that can then keep the ball moving forward with a more play on instinct mentality. It only works if you have a functional forward line to kick it to though. We haven't had which is why we turned it over more than we intercepted - and therefore on balance were a below average team.

Freo trained all pre season to speed up ball movement out of the back half by utilising their new pieces in hogan and lobb working alongside Taberner.they looked good early on with the away win GWS being a standout and the point in the season where I thought finals were in play. Unfortunately injuries played a massive role in the unraveling of th e season as when the bigs started to go down the guys down back lost there reference points to kick to. The lack of confidence saw ball movement stagnate and Freo reverted to holding onto the ball. Opposition now had time to set up and Freo just couldn't score

 

[Joao]

For the record, I am not a fan of ball retention. I find it fairly boring to watch even if it is extremely effective when done right.

I like to watch speed.

 

[nurries]

For the record, I am not a fan of ball retention. I find it fairly boring to watch even if it is extremely effective when done right.

I like to watch speed.

Our drafting this year might indicate a little bit what direction we are going

 

[arsesmart]

I'm hoping we can use Fyfe more in the Martin role of getting forward, don't know if the captain will agree. Martin missed out on a few
awards, by doing the team thing,.
Same with Sonny rotating with Henry. But we need others to contribute, as our midfield does lack pace?
Acres I feel will become important even if many didn't want him here, but I would be super confident if we could keep SHill on the park.
We have plenty of talent coming through, but the mature agers acquired this year could be the surprise gift.

It suits Martin's game more to play that forward role with swings at will into the midfield. I don't think he is sacrificing anything of his game to do that, but rather it enhances his attributes/style and the team/game plan moulds around Dusty.

Given the discussion around the Tiger's game plan here, it serves to show a key feature of Richmond's style is that it has been shaped by personnel as much as it has been adopted. They pretty much went after a style similar to the Bulldogs ping-pong style which was so successful in 2016 and then adjusted it to fit the number of small nippy forwards they had to fill the gap when all their key forwards, except for Riewoldt, fell over.

So I reckon that's the best learning for Longmuir is to formulate the gameplan around the list's strengths and weaknesses and to maximise the match-winning weapons at their disposal. The age of the team that runs out on the park for him will be a key factor in how well any plan he does come up with gets implemented for starters.

 

[tacopavlich]

Fyfe, Walters, S.Hill, Mundy need to tow the party line. Fyfe already said something I didn’t like, game plan just needs tweaks, not too many changes too quickly. wTF, pull into line and follow your new coach. If wholesale changes are needed, embrace them.

It's pretty much expected, Lyon had full support from the senior playing group and believed in the systems he put in place. Evidence from their games would reinforce this view. Now it is Longmuir's job to sell his vision to the playing group, it's part of his job requirement to do so, same as what Lyon had to do when he took over.

It's not a simple case of "Fyfe should believe in our new coach because he should" true buy in that Richmond players have for Hardwick takes time and personal skills.

 

[malpaso]

Richmond have one of the best lists. I'd back West Coast to beat them in Perth and probably at a neutral ground too (both teams at full strength). I'd back the 3 peat Hawks too, although they would be made to earn it.

There is nothing wrong with Richmond's game plan, I just think ball retention is superior but also harder to get right.

Yeah ball retention is how the Pies beat Richmond this year granted that was early (record disposal numbers).

 

[malpaso]

The nice thing for JLo is our defence at full fitness and availability is very good. Was the best in the AFL until injuries hit us in 2019. The game plan work has to come from middle to forward.
The single thing i'm looking for is that we don't crowd the ball carrier as much as we have previously. So many times we have players getting sucked in when there was no need and their man ends up beating us.

 

[kingswood71]

For the record, I am not a fan of ball retention. I find it fairly boring to watch even if it is extremely effective when done right.

I like to watch speed.

Amen Brother
Amazing that WC were 4th for total kicks last season, but 16th for total handballs....Effective, but I would rather watch paint dry.
I hope we are going down the "take the game on" route and not down the "Kick it around for a quarter, keepies off" route
I would rather go down in a blaze of glory....

 

[Admiral Byng]

To me there are two keys to getting lots of scoring shots:

Getting clean possession in the attacking half forward area - think of it as a band from about 50m arc to a second ~75m arc - getting a clean possession in that patch of ground.

Kicking to a moving target inside forward 50m arc. So much harder for the defender to cover a moving target without giving away free kicks. It clears congestion and stretches the defenders. Please no more kicking to a static pack and then demanding our small forwards win the ball and pull off miracles in heavy congestion.

 

[Bring back Drum]

If you want more scoring shots it’s about turning the ball over earlier & not allowing the opposition an opportunity to set up behind the ball.

There’s three things that can occur in football, we’ve got the ball, they’ve got the ball & the ball is in dispute.
With each part of the game each team has different structures. Whilst we’ve got the ball we create space to allow ball movement down the ground, which means we’re not too fussed about a man.

If you can turn that ball over sooner & then move the ball quickly you will score because they cannot set up. The best teams slow the ball down on turnover to allow for defensive set up.

That’s the balancing act & why you have to have a balance of skilled players who can move the ball on turnover quickly but not then turn the ball over themselves. That’s just handing them a goal. Ie Freo at times because of poor skills.

In dispute is your stoppage set up which quickly becomes we’ve got the ball or they do. Decisions must be made accordingly & the best coached teams will make those decisions to either attack or defend quickly I.e set up defensively or spread. Teams get caught when the wrong decision is made or you are too slow to make your decision.

Eg We were competent on our defensive structure but did not spread quick enough on winning the ball, so that 2nd possession out of a contest would often be long a kick to a 1v1 instead of another link in the chain of run & carry. Ie Richmond.

Now Richmond are happy to lose at the stoppage because they play one behind the ball to allow for turnover at their strongest point, centre to half back. They are the best at scoring from turnover because of that plus 1 back there. Don’t get me wrong they don’t mind winning the clearance, but has anyone notice Dusty had less fend offs this year? They expect to win at half back & spread from there as it’s a bigger field to use.

There’s a lot more to it obviously & I could go for pages, but a modern coach will devise a game plan to best suit his squad keeping in mind the 3 facets of the game....whilst trying to work out how to score....then adapt to opposition strategy.

 

[Clems Knee]

There’s a lot more to it obviously & I could go for pages, but a modern coach will devise a game plan to best suit his squad keeping in mind the 3 facets of the game....whilst trying to work out how to score....
then adapt to opposition strategy.

So I reckon that's the best learning for Longmuir is to formulate the gameplan around the list's strengths and weaknesses and to maximise the match-winning weapons at their disposal. The age of the team that runs out on the park for him will be a key factor in how well any plan he does come up with gets implemented for starters.

Hopefully this. Lyon came in originally and played players in their best role. It was so good to see Pavlich as a forward again after Harvey played him in the middle, and to see McPharlin as the backline general rather than swingman.
As time went on, I think Lyon deviated from this ideal, probably because of an imbalance in the list, or because not all were fit and available.
It will be interesting to see where Cerra, Tucker, Brayshaw, Walters and Mundy play next year. Or the role of Fyfe.

 

[G Mus]

I think if we want to be successful long term next year needs to be a year of implementing better defence, we’ve strayed away from good team defence in search of scoring power recently and need to re-bed that

Reintroduce sweepers at stoppages, play tighter to our men at those stoppages. Kill the clock more ball in hand and reduce how often we play on as well as look outside of the corridor and kick to the wings more, probably avoid having Fyfe/Mundy/Walters all in the middle together too

 

[Square Peg]

Yeak thats actually what Im saying.

Yeah I actually agree with what you are saying and hope we follow the Richmond model as well. My point about a precise kicking game plan is that we need more players with good skills so that allows Longmuir to come up with a plan. You cant make a plan that doesnt work because so many players miss kick. Seriously, our kicking from Round 14 to the end of last year was statistically the worse result I can remember for any team. We were 17th or 18th for every kicking stat. No gameplan works with that skill level.

Im hoping Longmuir brings in more speed and pressure into the team and has a better balance between inside and outside players. My theory as to why we constantly get killed outside the contest is that we consistently play too many players who's natural instict is to be inside their player rather than spreading wide. Guys like Cerra and Tucker arent suited to the roles they have been playing so they react rather than create play. I think playing too many instinctive inside players is the biggest flaw we've had in the gameplan in recent years. If it came down to a choice between Conca and say Swita in the team Im hoping that JL choses to pick the lesser player of Swita so that we have less players who get exposed on the outside in the team.

My idea for bringing more all ground pressure and speed would start in the ruck. Id go with Lobb and Logue not playing Darcy unless there is an injury. Both Lobb and Logue would add around the ground pressure significantly compared to how Sean went last year. Logue played ruck a fair bit as a junior.

In the forward line Im hoping Sturt comes good so we can play him as the third tall. Potentially he cold add speed, marking and skill to the forward set-up. If Sturt is still not ready then the third tall should be a resting mid rather than Cox or McCarthy. A rotation of Acres/Fyfe/Mundy/Logue (Mundy and Logue to also switch back)and perhaps Hughes (if he plays mid) would be better than sacrificing an extra runner in the team.

At both Collingwood and West Coast Longmuir had control of the forward group for a period when he was there. In both cases he built forward lines based on having a lot of speed and keeping a six man structure. Im thinking he will do the same at freo, but it might take more than this off season to get the right personal in the squad to implement the plan. At both West Coast and Collingwood the skill level of the players overall seemed to increase the longer Longmuir was there. Hopefully he played a role in that happening.

I agree with most of this especially the bit about inside/outside balance, but I disagree with the bit about Logue in the ruck in preference to Darcy to partner Lobb.
Can't see how any variation of a J Lo zone defence survives without a strong ruck

 

[sherrif]

I agree with most of this especially the bit about inside/outside balance, but I disagree with the bit about Logue in the ruck in preference to Darcy to partner Lobb.
Can't see how any variation of a J Lo zone defence survives without a strong ruck

Darcy would be liability in a zone defence.If he plays like last year then his area of the ground would be the area of the zone oppositions teams would target. Lobb's way better around the ground and plays the kick behind play role brilliantly. Logue I think could play that role, Im not saying he will, but its a pretty low bar to overcome to be more effective at covering space than Sean did last year. There were times he was behind his player 50metres+. Its a massive preseason for Sean Darcy obviously so things could change.

 

[Square Peg]

Darcy would be liability in a zone defence.If he plays like last year then his area of the ground would be the area of the zone oppositions teams would target. Lobb's way better around the ground and plays the kick behind play role brilliantly. Logue I think could play that role, Im not saying he will, but its a pretty low bar to overcome to be more effective at covering space than Sean did last year. There were times he was behind his player 50metres+. Its a massive preseason for Sean Darcy obviously so things could change.

I wasn't suggesting Darcy play in defence, more that zone defences like J Lo favours only work if the ball is not coming in too quickly. Our ruck will need to minimise clear hit outs to advantage by the opposing ruck to make it work

 

[sherrif]

I wasn't suggesting Darcy play in defence, more that zone defences like J Lo favours only work if the ball is not coming in too quickly. Our ruck will need to minimise clear hit outs to advantage by the opposing ruck to make it work

Yeah I know you wont saying Darcy played in defence. I agree that for a zone defence to work the ball cant be coming out quickly thats the reason why I want the extra pressure and ground covering ability of Lobb in ruck and not Sean. I think Sean's ruckwork is significantly worse at stoppages compared to Lobb anyway, so we kinda agree on the type of ruck we need in a JLo gameplan. Just different players.

 

[salim malik]

Game plan.
Get ball, keep ball , kick more score than the opposition.
Easy as , anything else is over thought bullshit.

 

[sherrif]

Game plan.
Get ball, keep ball , kick more score than the opposition.
Easy as , anything else is over thought bullshit.

We've done what you've said above in recent years and the results speak for themselves. Playing the best 22 players and repositioning them into a side has resulted in playing way too many inside players. Making too many errors by foot. Getting caught with too many ball watcher types in open play. Being terrible at linking up play and consistently having no forwards in front of the ball. While having to Play the likes of Cerra, Conca and Blakely on quicker faster outside players because we have the wrong match-ups are just some of the results of an oversimplified game plan. Feel free to disagree, but Im not sure why you'd post the above in a thread discussing a potential game plan. Kinda like how I never got why people gave abuse to training reporters for posting their views in the training threads. People come to big footy forums for different reasons.

 

[salim malik]

We've done what you've said above in recent years and the results speak for themselves. Playing the best 22 players and repositioning them into a side has resulted in playing way too many inside players. Making too many errors by foot. Getting caught with too many ball watcher types in open play. Being terrible at linking up play and consistently having no forwards in front of the ball. While having to Play the likes of Cerra, Conca and Blakely on quicker faster outside players because we have the wrong match-ups are just some of the results of an oversimplified game plan. Feel free to disagree, but Im not sure why you'd post the above in a thread discussing a potential game plan. People come to big footy forums for different reasons. Dont know whats wrong with having different ideas about gameplans.

All sides spend pre season practising getting the ball and keeping the ball with the end result being if you've got the pill they haven't.
Game plans mean zilch if a side hasn't got the skills to achieve those simple principles.
It's an easy game that is over thought to the exreme.

 

[sherrif]

All sides spend pre season practising getting the ball and keeping the ball with the end result being if you've got the pill they haven't.
Game plans mean zilch if a side hasn't got the skills to achieve those simple principles.
It's an easy game that is over thought to the exreme.

Totally disagree. The Eagles and Collingwood dont play the same gameplan we have in recent years. So why wouldnt our game plan change with a new coach who would be implementing what he has learnt at other clubs. The Eagles train nothing like us by the way. Its obvious even in their preseason training threads.For one, they do a heap more kicking and skills practice.
Like I said fill free to disagree. Not sure why you post that in here though. Its identical to the tools who kept posting preseason training form counts for nothing in a preseason training thread. Thats great. So fill free to not read the thread.

 

[Wigarus]

Totally disagree. The Eagles and Collingwood dont play the same gameplan we have in recent years. So why wouldnt our game plan change with a new coach who would be implementing what he has learnt at other clubs. The Eagles train nothing like us by the way. Its obvious even in their preseason training threads.For one, they do a heap more kicking and skills practice.
Like I said fill free to disagree. Not sure why you post that in here though. Its identical to the tools who kept posting preseason training form counts for nothing in a preseason training thread. Thats great. So fill free to not read the thread.

I think it's feel free