overly large list turnover for 2011??

[crowralph]

potentially we could be looking at 8 retirements/delistings at the end of this year. that's a pretty big turnover of players and doesn't include losing one to gold coast or anyone who may want a change of scenery. if these are replaced with draft picks, we'd have to be about the youngest list in the comp. probably too young. of the below, only griffin would seem to have any sort of trade value. this raises a couple of questions. will we need to keep at least a couple of the below and if so, who would it be. and if they were all to go, would we have to trade our early picks for ready-made players.

burton
hentschell
mcloed
doughty
stevens
goodwin
edwards
griffin

 

[WALL-e]

McLoad will play on....at least on current form, unless he wishes to stop playing.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Who should go in the next two years:

Macca
Trent H
Edwards
Goodwin
Burton
Jacky
Griffin
Doughty

Will stay but are list cloggers:

Reilly
Cook
Schmidt

 

[amer]

Hahaha CD. Reilly is a definite list clogger, but Cook? You embarrassed yourself with the Phil Davis call, this'll be another of those.

 

[relapse]

The fact that we cut from the bottom of our list has not left us with much fat to trim from anywhere else except the top at the end of this year.

Schmidt, Jaench and Henderson would have to be almost certainties to be upgraded which will put a lot of pressure on having to make cuts this year.

I also think we will take about 4-5 players in the draft leaving us needing to dislist about 7-8 players.

Burton
Doughty
Hentschel
Edwards
Jacky
Griffin (delist or trade)
Goody

 

[Bazzmand Show]

Hahaha CD. Reilly is a definite list clogger, but Cook? You embarrassed yourself with the Phil Davis call, this'll be another of those.

Wait let me guess Captain Dangerfield/Springchoke doesnt like Davis because

1. He doesn't fly the flag...
2. Hes not unsociable and run around hitting people...
3. He plays to much at the ball and not the man...
4. He doesn't have big muscles like Campbell Brown
5. Does not engage in enough passionate hysteria...

Its like flogging a dead horse with CD/SC

 

[Cap]

I reckon Macca will be close to B&F this season

 

[Sir Vlado]

Wait let me guess Captain Dangerfield/Springchoke doesnt like Davis because

1. He doesn't fly the flag...
2. Hes not unsociable and run around hitting people...
3. He plays to much at the ball and not the man...
4. He doesn't have big muscles like Campbell Brown
5. Does not engage in enough passionate hysteria...

Its like flogging a dead horse with CD/SC

I swear he loved Phil Davis?

How things change.

 

[NTRabbit]

At this stage, I'm seeing gone

Hentschel
Griffin
Burton
Edwards

Two definite, two probable.

Jacky just got a 2 year contract, I doubt he'll be cut.

Goodwin will play on. McLeod, well, at this stage he's only gone if he wants to retire, he's not going to be retired. Doughty will also play on, unless his form falls away again.

Suggesting Stevens will go is patently ridiculous.

Reilly will only go if we trade him, can't see him being outright delisted.

Highly doubtful we'll go for more than 3 draft picks, and still not sure if all three of Jaensch, Henderson and Schmidt will be upgraded - as I recall, only Henderson, Donnelly and Schmidt need to be hired or fired (and re-rookied) at the end of the year.

 

[Vantz]

This is my opinion

I still think Goody will play in 2011.

Those who I think will Retire or be told to hang up the boots. Edwards (Retire), McLeod (Retire his decision), Burton (Retire), Hentschel (Retire).

Jacky (Delisted), Griffin (Delisted/Traded)

Henderson and Schmidt (Promoted). Donnelly...(Delisted). Other Rookies retained.

Doughty may go, but could depend on other players who arrive or leave during trade period and how many picks we want at the draft.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I swear he loved Phil Davis?

How things change.

Here we go, here come the sheep. When did I say I stopped liking Davis' game. In fact I think he has been one of our few positives. However, you couldn't call him a hard nut.

Bazzman - I gave up on seeing those things along time ago. We all know that doesn't fit with our nice guy image. However, for once I wouldn't mind seeing a few more Crows players put their head over the ball or tackle with a little more intent.

You're happy with the physical side of our game I take it? The Mighty Panthers, Westies?

 

[subaru]

overly large list turnover for 2011??

I think we have an overly large TURNOVER list ......

Would be interesting to compare clanger counts with last year...but CBF.

 

[crow_fish]

No way that an AFL club (exception Richmond) that would be cutting deep this year and next with the comprised drafts. This is another reason why we have stocked up on tall/KPP personnel last year. It that easier to find the small/mid type players which I would think we would be targeting this year.

My understanding of recruiting is that they would continue look at younger grade's in previous years and have fair idea of what is coming through.

It is early call to speculate what condition/form players are in end of the year. But you would expect with Gold Coast draft picks you could only pick max 3 players in the draft this year. And we would upgrade at least 2 rookies from our list.

The other point I would make is the interchange decision that AFL hands down (which IMO is most likely given PR afl has given thus far this year) will have big impact of way game is played next yar and type of player needed. If they clamp down on interchange you want more focus on endurance rather if game played way this year where players required in burst of efforts where pace in favoured. It is important that this been known prior to list decisions.

I think we have been shown up for pace, this year a lot of crows players bodies are top heavy very strong (exceptions younger players) talking about the VB, Reilly, Doughty, Thompson, Goodwin etc that are shown up for pace around contest in first 5 to 10m. If games continues way with pace that going down we need to look at how bodies should look, although if game has interchange cap/changed. They could go back to working there opponents over with endurance and strength.

Finally we need Mcleod to play on in 2011.

 

[Alex99]

IMO it has to be a band aid effect. Rip it all off at once. Let’s step the list back and remove all the older player who won’t take us anywhere.

So out will be (at season end of course)
Burton
Doughty
Edwards
Goodwin’
Griffin
Jackie (don’t care that he’s under contract, it couldn’t be that much anyway)
McLeod
Stevens
Hentschel

That’s 9 gone, add Henderson, Schmidt, Jaensch and L Thompson that will leave 4 national draft picks and a pre season pick. Player development isn’t working the way we are going now, why not just make them sink or swim by themself. That is the next generation o f players. Make them develop together. What, we finish in the bottom 3 or 4 again.

 

[relapse]

IMO it has to be a band aid effect. Rip it all off at once. Let’s step the list back and remove all the older player who won’t take us anywhere.

So out will be (at season end of course)
Burton
Doughty
Edwards
Goodwin’
Griffin
Jackie (don’t care that he’s under contract, it couldn’t be that much anyway)
McLeod
Stevens
Hentschel

That’s 9 gone, add Henderson, Schmidt, Jaensch and L Thompson that will leave 4 national draft picks and a pre season pick. Player development isn’t working the way we are going now, why not just make them sink or swim by themself. That is the next generation o f players. Make them develop together. What, we finish in the bottom 3 or 4 again.

I dont mind going into next year with 1 senior spot for either Goody or McLeod (no leadership role), but thats all, anymore and we will be continuing down the same pointless path that we are going in this season and you could just about put a line through Craig's future as an AFL coach if we finish in the bottom 4 and go into 2011 with trying to still base our side around senior players.

Doughty must go, we dont carry 2nd tier players over 30, has been poor much of the year. Will not and should not be there next year.

Stevens is more than safe though, the only utility on our list and should be there next year. Obviously he will only have a couple of years left, but I would definately think he should be on our list in 2011.

 

[Alex99]

.

Stevens is more than safe though

Only way i would be happy to keep Scott Stevens, is if we trade Bock or Rutten.

We have to rebuild and we need another ‘A grade midfielder’. The only way to get an ‘A grade’ player is to give an ‘A grader’ away. We have a plethora of young key players coming through and if we have ever been in a position to be able to afford to trade an AA player; this off season would be it. With a quality midfield, Rutten will become an A Grade defender again, so will Bock and Steven can always play as a stop gap players. But only if one of them goes. The fact our midfield has more leaks than the titanic doesn’t help our defence.

So, for us to rebuild and rebuild as quick as possible, we need to play Otten, Davis, Walker, Tippett, McKernan, Talia and Sellar in key offensive and key defensive posts. Keeping Scott Stevens will limit one of these players from getting an opportunity as HE WILL NOT PLAY SANFL for long periods.

 

[relapse]

Only way i would be happy to keep Scott Stevens, is if we trade Bock or Rutten.

We have to rebuild and we need another ‘A grade midfielder’. The only way to get an ‘A grade’ player is to give an ‘A grader’ away. We have a plethora of young key players coming through and if we have ever been in a position to be able to afford to trade an AA player; this off season would be it. With a quality midfield, Rutten will become an A Grade defender again, so will Bock and Steven can always play as a stop gap players. But only if one of them goes. The fact our midfield has more leaks than the titanic doesn’t help our defence.

So, for us to rebuild and rebuild as quick as possible, we need to play Otten, Davis, Walker, Tippett, McKernan, Talia and Sellar in key offensive and key defensive posts. Keeping Scott Stevens will limit one of these players from getting an opportunity as HE WILL NOT PLAY SANFL for long periods.

I still think we do not have a geniune utility on our list and we cant go overboard on Talia yet, we have to get Davis developing before we even begin to worry about Talia. IMO Stevens stays for 2011 as he is the only genuine utility that can influence the game at either end of the ground. Heading into the end of 2011 someone like Talia might then be showing signs that they might be our future utility type player, but we would be making a mistake moving Stevens on at the end of the year especially with Hentschel going.

I am not convinced about Sellar and think that his spot is one that can be overtaken next year by someone like McKernan. Honestly I will be happy as long as we can move 4 out of the 5 most senior players on at the end of the year.

 

[Vader]

No way that an AFL club (exception Richmond) that would be cutting deep this year and next with the comprised drafts. This is another reason why we have stocked up on tall/KPP personnel last year. It that easier to find the small/mid type players which I would think we would be targeting this year.

Unfortunately, we have no choice in the matter. Our failure to retire any of the veterans last year means that we've forfeited the ability to stagger their departures. Hentschel's ongoing knee problems make his position on the list untenable, Griffin is likely to refuse a new contract even if it's offered, Jacky has to go as he can't even get out of the reserves after 3 years on our list.

It is early call to speculate what condition/form players are in end of the year. But you would expect with Gold Coast draft picks you could only pick max 3 players in the draft this year. And we would upgrade at least 2 rookies from our list.

The good news is that this draft is actually quite a good one - even with GC having already raided it. GC get 1/3 of the first round, but after that they only get 1 selection per round. I wouldn't be overly surprised to see us go 4-5 rounds deep in it.

The good news is that we have an abundance of rookies who look likely to get elevated - Schmidt, Henderson and Jaensch will almost certainly be rewarded with permanent elevations. Riley has got his SANFL career off to a great start, Thompson and Wright both look OK as well. My guess is that the latter 3 will all get rookie contract renewals, with the former 3 all promoted to the senior list.

The other point I would make is the interchange decision that AFL hands down (which IMO is most likely given PR afl has given thus far this year) will have big impact of way game is played next yar and type of player needed. If they clamp down on interchange you want more focus on endurance rather if game played way this year where players required in burst of efforts where pace in favoured. It is important that this been known prior to list decisions.

Then again, Craig & co have failed dismally to predict the "new and improved" tactics employed by everyone else in 2009 & 2010. Why should 2011 be any different?

I think we have been shown up for pace, this year a lot of crows players bodies are top heavy very strong (exceptions younger players) talking about the VB, Reilly, Doughty, Thompson, Goodwin etc that are shown up for pace around contest in first 5 to 10m. If games continues way with pace that going down we need to look at how bodies should look, although if game has interchange cap/changed. They could go back to working there opponents over with endurance and strength.

Our older players are slow by foot - and our younger players are too small and underdeveloped to play "unsociable football". You can't win either way..

Finally we need Mcleod to play on in 2011.

Unlikely, given that we know he's releasing a book at the end of the season. Very few players do that before they retire...

*** My comments in italics below

burton - gone
hentschel - gone
mcloed - 95% likely to retire
doughty - could be retained, wouldn't be unhappy if he were delisted though, still doing the job defensively (his problems are almost entirely offensive in nature)
stevens - 95% likely to be retained
goodwin - retire or play on, his call. Shouldn't be in the leadership group at all in 2011.
edwards - should retire
griffin - goneski - and won't be traded, as nobody is going to offer us anything worthwhile (would have gone last year if we received a decent offer, but nobody was prepared to give us anything at all in return)

You can add Jarrhan Jacky to that list - he's gone backwards every year since we drafted him and it's now time to cut our losses (even if he is contracted for 2011). The salary cap won't be a problem in 2011 anyway, given the departure of all those senior players.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

Am I happy with the physical side of our game? Absolutely not, I think we have been lacking in aggro for years which is why it is such a relief to see players like Walker/Trenks who hit the man hard. Walker in particular has that meaner "get in side the opponents head" attitude that none of our other players do. I just think all of your posts have an agenda and its like flogging a dead horse. Yes we realise our team lacks aggro, yes we dont hit the man as hard as I would like, but you cant start slating youngsters who are clearly talented and becoming one of our better performers.

BTW Radiohead nor White Stripes hold a candlestick to the real bands of the naughties Korn and Limp Bizkit.........

 

[Allefgib]

You can add Jarrhan Jacky to that list - he's gone backwards every year since we drafted him and it's now time to cut our losses (even if he is contracted for 2011). The salary cap won't be a problem in 2011 anyway, given the departure of all those senior players.

Someone should tell the players. They might fire up if theres some money on the line!!

 

[macca23]

At this stage, I'm seeing gone

Hentschel
Griffin
Burton
Edwards

Two definite, two probable.

Jacky just got a 2 year contract, I doubt he'll be cut.

Goodwin will play on. McLeod, well, at this stage he's only gone if he wants to retire, he's not going to be retired. Doughty will also play on, unless his form falls away again.

Suggesting Stevens will go is patently ridiculous.

Reilly will only go if we trade him, can't see him being outright delisted.

Highly doubtful we'll go for more than 3 draft picks, and still not sure if all three of Jaensch, Henderson and Schmidt will be upgraded - as I recall, only Henderson, Donnelly and Schmidt need to be hired or fired (and re-rookied) at the end of the year.

I see both Burton and Edwards as definites to be gone, along with Hentschel, so that's 3 certainties IMO.

There will be more because at this stage Jaensch and Schmidt and possibly Henderson are all very likely to be upgraded as well.

 

[relapse]

I see both Burton and Edwards as definites to be gone, along with Hentschel, so that's 3 certainties IMO.

There will be more because at this stage Jaensch and Schmidt and possibly Henderson are all very likely to be upgraded as well.

Yep I agree with that

Henderson and Schmidt are 2nd year rookies and you think we would upgrade them.

We may hold Jaensch for an extra year as a rookie

With us having a high first round draft pick we will definitiely take 4 picks at the draft table, even if we trade Griff we might even take 5.

 

[Gets!]

Will stay but are list cloggers:

Reilly
Cook
Schmidt

Hahaha Springy. You have absolutely no idea about the game of football.

 

[Captain Pants]

Gone - Hentshell, his body has had it unfortunately,
Edwards, way too slow in his descision making (i think he knows this and will annouce his retirement during the year)
Griffin, most dissapointing player on our list

Last Chance - Burton, Craigy loves him and will give him another crack before the end of the year if he then doesn't perform its goodbye

Their Choice - McLeod, playing to the same standard of the last 2-3 years quality player depends if he has the desire to go on
Goodwin, playing really patchy footy at the moment but could continue, may step down as captain though.

Not going anywhere - Stevens, our most versatile player even if he does look like a wii character
- Doughty, should be spared this year but will go the next

 

[relapse]

Gone - Hentshell, his body has had it unfortunately,
Edwards, way too slow in his descision making (i think he knows this and will annouce his retirement during the year)
Griffin, most dissapointing player on our list

Last Chance - Burton, Craigy loves him and will give him another crack before the end of the year if he then doesn't perform its goodbye

Their Choice - McLeod, playing to the same standard of the last 2-3 years quality player depends if he has the desire to go on
Goodwin, playing really patchy footy at the moment but could continue, may step down as captain though.

Not going anywhere - Stevens, our most versatile player even if he does look like a wii character
- Doughty, should be spared this year but will go the next

The issue is if we keep doughty, Goody, Burton, Mcleod where the cuts will come from on our list. If we are replacing 7 players while keeping 4 senior players we will have to cut youngsters from our list, the fat on our list is very very thin now after we cut really deep into our young stocks with our list management last year.