Pick 12

[thylacine60]

Don't know anything about him but if he comes to the club and flourishes we can all thank his mum for laying a nice Sheppard.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

What about Hawks early in the season with Jamison vs roughie. All i can remember is the 8 goals. Jamo has played some very good games and has also been towelled up as well. He is an ok FB but not a patch on the elite FBs like Scarlett, Lake and Glass. Think Lloyd did pretty well in one of the games with Jamo as well!

I didnt say he was a hack, just not elite. I would rate him as OK which is a fair analysis! If we drafted an elite backman to sit alongside him, he would improve out of site, e.g. Judd's impact on our other mids.

Bower has been the only one of the younger tall defensive players that has shown potential eliteness.

You said he was not even 'better than average', which he clearly is. I didn't say he was elite, but I definitely think he could be with further development. Jamison's outstanding performances on power forwards like Daniel Bradshaw and Justin Koschitzke, as well as quality small forwards like Paul Medhurst indicate that he does in fact have the potential to be elite. Of course he's been beaten (very occasionally, by the way) - what young defender hasn't?

Why are you comparing Jamison to Scarlett, Lake and Glass? He has played 34 games - the vast majority of them in outstanding fashion - and you have already decided that he has not shown enough to be considered a potential gun? After just 34 games I doubt the aforementioned three All-Australians had finished their adjustment period and begun taking scalps week in week out.

You might also want to take into consideration the fact that Jamison could barely lift his arm above his head after popping his shoulder in round 2, and still performed excellent jobs for the team. He is brave, exceptionally fast, getting stronger, times his spoils well and has a good sense for the subtleties of the game. I see no evidence to suggest that Jamison won't be a very, very good player for us, and it is unfair to condemn him to 'ok' status for getting beaten occasionally by quality forwards at this stage of his career.

I also like your selective bolding of 'every game' in my post, when I have clearly written 'almost' directly in front of it.

 

[Salaryman]

Don't know anything about him but if he comes to the club and flourishes we can all thank his mum for laying a nice Sheppard.

you absolute Barnaby Joyce

 

[thegreenmachine]

So.... we just assuming that Gary Rohan will be snapped up by Sydney??

Im wondering why Gary Rohan is not included in your listing, Mr. OP?
He looks far superior than Talia (albeit within the highlights package)

If Gary slips then he is a Blue. Simple as that IMO

You can always vote for the "Other" option if you believe he will be coming to Carlton but somehow I don't I'm afraid.

And Hale kicked eight goals on Scarlett.

So what?

Our midfield just let Hawthorn hit Roughead lace out without any pressure.

If I recall correctly, Jamison was playing on Roughead in his first game back from a bung shoulder.

Jamison owns Bradshaw.

And has also played on Medhurst and Koschitzke and beaten them.

Riewoldt was beating Waite in a game at the G before Jamison moved onto him and quietened their skipper.

A nice argument.

Your argument falls down because you're assuming Talia is going to be an elite KPP with intensity.

Some posters who have seen Talia play rate him as a floating tall.

Doesn't Talia sound similar to some of the talls that we have?

Henderson, Austin, Waite, Jamison and Bower have shown more than Talia, yet you're just trying to come with a justification to pick him. You should base your justification on talent and ability, not your desire to find a KPP.

All more than capable KPDs (and let's face it, Austin and Bower are still developing KPDs you might want to remember it takes more time for KPP to come on.
BTW I never stated "draft a midfielder", I stated that other teams are examples of how you cannot really have too many midfielders these days.
I for 1 have faith in our boys.

Don't know anything about him but if he comes to the club and flourishes we can all thank his mum for laying a nice Sheppard.

 

[mac25]

And Hale kicked eight goals on Scarlett.

So what?

Our midfield just let Hawthorn hit Roughead lace out without any pressure.

If I recall correctly, Jamison was playing on Roughead in his first game back from a bung shoulder.

Jamison owns Bradshaw.

And has also played on Medhurst and Koschitzke and beaten them.

Riewoldt was beating Waite in a game at the G before Jamison moved onto him and quietened their skipper.

A nice argument.

Your argument falls down because you're assuming Talia is going to be an elite KPP with intensity.

Some posters who have seen Talia play rate him as a floating tall.

Doesn't Talia sound similar to some of the talls that we have?

Henderson, Austin, Waite, Jamison and Bower have shown more than Talia, yet you're just trying to come with a justification to pick him. You should base your justification on talent and ability, not your desire to find a KPP.

TG, your anti Talia comments in recent days is completely contradicting what you bag other BF supporters about picking a key position player.

Personally we all know Carlton will take the best available and it may very well turn out to be Talia who is rated by people in the know e.g Kevin Sheehan as likely to go anywere from pick 8-12, it may turn out to be someone else but you are taking this to the other extreme but saying he has little to offer, l can understand to an extent if the argument is Kane Lucas if available at 12, yes l think without doubt we will go in that direction, but seriously some of the players you are putting forward in your argument e.g Moore, Sheppard you are making them out to be in another level compared to Talia which is completely not correct.

 

[Silvagnis]

TG, your anti Talia comments in recent days is completely contradicting what you bag other BF supporters about picking a key position player.

Personally we all know Carlton will take the best available and it may very well turn out to be Talia who is rated by people in the know e.g Kevin Sheehan as likely to go anywere from pick 8-12, it may turn out to be someone else but you are taking this to the other extreme but saying he has little to offer, l can understand to an extent if the argument is Kane Lucas if available at 12, yes l think without doubt we will go in that direction, but seriously some of the players you are putting forward in your argument e.g Moore, Sheppard you are making them out to be in another level compared to Talia which is completely not correct.

Who is anti-Talia?

If Talia becomes a Carlton player, then I'll support him because Hughes knows his stuff.

However, I won't have Carlton supporters making up facetious arguments for selecting a KPP by mentioning and creating a perceived weakness in our current talls.

Our current KPP won't have any bearing on the decision.

If the KPP isn't talented enough to play on the AFL's best KPP and beat them, we won't pick him.

We won't think about our what we have and need unless we rate a KPP equal with a midfielder, wingman, HFF or HBF.

Yet our need for a quick HBF or wingman with skill and accountability might be more pressing than getting a KPP. We need a quick line breaking wingman and HBF who can kick and man up. This rationale mightn't be good enough for the Get A KPP At Any Cost Club. They will come up with any justification to pick a KPP even if he isn't the best available footballer.

They're even second guessing Hughes who would have picked Yarran with pick five after watching his development since he played his very first game.

This is the approach the Get A KPP At Any Cost Club has towards pick 12.

They might be awfully disappointed and vitriolic come November 26.

 

[mac25]

Who is anti-Talia?

If Talia becomes a Carlton player, then I'll support him because Hughes knows his stuff.

However, I won't have Carlton supporters making up facetious arguments for selecting a KPP by mentioning and creating a perceived weakness in our current talls.

Our current KPP won't have any bearing on the decision.

If the KPP isn't talented enough to play on the AFL's best KPP and beat them, we won't pick him.

We won't think about our what we have and need unless we rate a KPP equal with a midfielder, wingman, HFF or HBF.

Yet our need for a quick HBF or wingman with skill and accountability might be more pressing than getting a KPP. We need a quick line breaking wingman and HBF who can kick and man up. This rationale mightn't be good enough for the Get A KPP At Any Cost Club. They will come up with any justification to pick a KPP even if he isn't the best available footballer.

They're even second guessing Hughes who would have picked Yarran with pick five after watching his development since he played his very first game.

This is the approach the Get A KPP At Any Cost Club has towards pick 12.

They might be awfully disappointed and vitriolic come November 26.

l think the key point you are missing here is that you are assuming people have a preference for Talia because he is a key position player, this is not the case for most people, Talia is rated highly not because of what position he plays, if the argument is about a Panos, Carlisle, possibly even Black it is unlikely we would select any of them if we applied the best available criteria, but Talia is a different case as clearly he is in the mix to be drafted quite possibly anywere from 8-12.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Yet our need for a quick HBF or wingman with skill and accountability might be more pressing than getting a KPP. We need a quick line breaking wingman and HBF who can kick and man up. This rationale mightn't be good enough for the Get A KPP At Any Cost Club. They will come up with any justification to pick a KPP even if he isn't the best available footballer.

You quote everyone else posts line by line and then quote one instance out of a hundred that it worked the opposite way to support your argument, e.g. if i say Hampson is a poor mark, you will quote 1 great Hampson mark on one day as a response and put a sarcastic symbol in. You can be a twit sometimes General (however... I still applaud your biased Blues support at the same time).

To give you some of your stupid medicine i should now rant on about our great HBFers who you are trying to replace. We have a heap a players who can do the role within the club and if you say they cant, i 'll quote 1 game, 1 minute where any of our current HBFers did do the right thing to make you eat your words. Thats the type of drivel you serve up others.

If I wanted careful thought out analysis then you wouldn't make any best 22 this lifetime. If i wanted pig headed drivel, then you'd be the guy.

PS
Of course, if we were on the Bay 13 board or any other board that talks drivel, you'd be picked just behind Parrot

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

You said he was not even 'better than average', which he clearly is. I didn't say he was elite, but I definitely think he could be with further development. Jamison's outstanding performances on power forwards like Daniel Bradshaw and Justin Koschitzke, as well as quality small forwards like Paul Medhurst indicate that he does in fact have the potential to be elite. Of course he's been beaten (very occasionally, by the way) - what young defender hasn't?

Why are you comparing Jamison to Scarlett, Lake and Glass? He has played 34 games - the vast majority of them in outstanding fashion - and you have already decided that he has not shown enough to be considered a potential gun? After just 34 games I doubt the aforementioned three All-Australians had finished their adjustment period and begun taking scalps week in week out.

You might also want to take into consideration the fact that Jamison could barely lift his arm above his head after popping his shoulder in round 2, and still performed excellent jobs for the team. He is brave, exceptionally fast, getting stronger, times his spoils well and has a good sense for the subtleties of the game. I see no evidence to suggest that Jamison won't be a very, very good player for us, and it is unfair to condemn him to 'ok' status for getting beaten occasionally by quality forwards at this stage of his career.

I also like your selective bolding of 'every game' in my post, when I have clearly written 'almost' directly in front of it.

It is alright to have an opinion that he is going ok and nothing more. You can look at a list of the current bunch of FBs and see he fits in the lower half of the middle group. Some of that can be attributed to age and games played. He is not rdy age-wise or gamewise to be a top 4 (arguably Scarlett, Glass, Lake and Rutten).

And most 'normal' neutral supporters dont have him ahead of fletcher, Carlisle, Merret, Mcpharlin, and Presti. If furrito played FB fulltime, he'd be easily ahead as well. This leaves him in the bottom half of the FB table.

Of course age does have something to do with it, but some of the names above showed outright class from the outset. Jamison has shown signs of being ok to maybe good. We're supporter hopeful that he ends up a world beater.

And you cant go too far down the age or games played path because both Carlisle and Merret are ahead of Jamison but younger. Hurley will surpass him in the next 2 years.

Bower really showed some 'special signs' despite being beaten as well. Those signs put him ahead of Jamo.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Matt Burgan, www.afl.com.au's draft expert has quite a few players being potentially taken first at 12, the list goes:

Koby Stevens-
Jesse Crichton
Jordan Gysberts-
Sam Reid
Daniel Menzel-

Makes me think that Burgan sees our pick as a bit unpredictable.

According to Burgan, also potential selections at 12:

Brad Sheppard-
Daniel Talia-
Ryan Bastinac-
Kane Lucas-
Andrew Moore-
Luke Tapscott-
Aaron Black
John Butcher
Jake Carlisle-
Benjamin Griffiths
Troy Taylor
Jack Fitzpatrick
Nathan Vardy
Allen Christiensen
Lewis Jetta-
Jake Melksham-

The players i have put a dash to are those I would not mind picking up, there are a few smokies in there but i tend to have an open mind about how players can develop. I like the idea of Menzel as he seems the quarter back type, setting up play, we probably need one of those

 

[Blue and Silver]

Have not indicated a few KPF, mostly because i am a little cautious around those types. Even Butcher concerns me, has great hands and speeed off the mark, but his kicking is suspect, being erratic is ok to a degree but i have seen match reports with him taking home 1.6 and the like, not the sort of return i want from a forward

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

It is alright to have an opinion that he is going ok and nothing more. You can look at a list of the current bunch of FBs and see he fits in the lower half of the middle group. Some of that can be attributed to age and games played. He is not rdy age-wise or gamewise to be a top 4 (arguably Scarlett, Glass, Lake and Rutten).

And most 'normal' neutral supporters dont have him ahead of fletcher, Carlisle, Merret, Mcpharlin, and Presti. If furrito played FB fulltime, he'd be easily ahead as well. This leaves him in the bottom half of the FB table.

Of course age does have something to do with it, but some of the names above showed outright class from the outset. Jamison has shown signs of being ok to maybe good. We're supporter hopeful that he ends up a world beater.

And you cant go too far down the age or games played path because both Carlisle and Merret are ahead of Jamison but younger. Hurley will surpass him in the next 2 years.

Bower really showed some 'special signs' despite being beaten as well. Those signs put him ahead of Jamo.

You really don't get it, do you?

Merret (sic) has played 87 games to Jamison's 34. Carlisle (sic) has played 32 games, and will be a very good player, just like Jamo. And yes, most supporters would have 220 gamer Simon Prestigiacomo and 312 gamer Dustin Fletcher ahead of Jamison at this stage. What's your point?

I could name a long list of experienced CHB's that have shown more than Bower to date, but won't, because it is completely irrelevant.

Furrito (sic) a good full back? Post that on the North Melbourne board and see what kind of response you get.

I think any good judge would know that Jamison has shown the 'special signs' of a top-class full-back. In fact, many opposition supporters who have a clue rightly rate him as our best pure defender. It is not every day an inexperienced backman completely destroys a class act in Daniel Bradshaw (Jamo though, makes a habit of it), yet at the same time has the pace and agility to blanket smaller yet equally dangerous forwards.

Bet hey, if you think he is 'going ok, and nothing more', then good luck to you. Maybe you're one of those people who think that Dreamteam stats mean everything? I mean, he doesn't get much of the ball, so he must be average, right?

Jamison is a great defensive talent and has not put a foot wrong since walking into Princes Park. Underselling his talent is an insult to his performances to date.

 

[thylacine60]

Crikey SOAP-Man, hard to believe all those players are crook at the same time.

 

[son of dominator]

Prior to half way through this year Jamison was rarely beaten. When he missed games this year our backline stuggled to find a decent structure about it. In the later part of the year he was obviously playing injured and that's when he began to get beaten and struggled to keep up with his opponent, and thus ended his season prematurely.

When he is fit his spead off the mark means he can spoil anyone on the lead, he constantly managed to get a fist on the ball when an opponent was on the lead and seemed to have plenty of space and time to mark it. He has plenty of poise and great decision making ability (unlike Thorton early in his career and Bower sometimes at the moment)

Give him a year or two in the gym and you will find he will be able to keep up physically with any forward and he will quickly become one of the cream defenders in the competion

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

TG, your anti Talia comments in recent days is completely contradicting what you bag other BF supporters about picking a key position player.

Personally we all know Carlton will take the best available and it may very well turn out to be Talia who is rated by people in the know e.g Kevin Sheehan as likely to go anywere from pick 8-12, it may turn out to be someone else but you are taking this to the other extreme but saying he has little to offer, l can understand to an extent if the argument is Kane Lucas if available at 12, yes l think without doubt we will go in that direction, but seriously some of the players you are putting forward in your argument e.g Moore, Sheppard you are making them out to be in another level compared to Talia which is completely not correct.

Im smarter than someone in the know like Kevin Sheahan and i believe he Talia wont be drafted in the top 12.
Sheahan would rate everybody in the top 12.. thats his job....

When has he not rated a player.. and said he wont make it...Just find one example.

According the Sheahan the man in the know... everybody will get drafted.. and noone is a hack!!!

Anyway betchya Talia goes after our pick... we wont take him and noone before us takes him...

Ok??

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

You really don't get it, do you?

Merret (sic) has played 87 games to Jamison's 34. Carlisle (sic) has played 32 games, and will be a very good player, just like Jamo. And yes, most supporters would have 220 gamer Simon Prestigiacomo and 312 gamer Dustin Fletcher ahead of Jamison at this stage. What's your point?

I could name a long list of experienced CHB's that have shown more than Bower to date, but won't, because it is completely irrelevant.

Furrito (sic) a good full back? Post that on the North Melbourne board and see what kind of response you get.

I think any good judge would know that Jamison has shown the 'special signs' of a top-class full-back. In fact, many opposition supporters who have a clue rightly rate him as our best pure defender. It is not every day an inexperienced backman completely destroys a class act in Daniel Bradshaw (Jamo though, makes a habit of it), yet at the same time has the pace and agility to blanket smaller yet equally dangerous forwards.

Bet hey, if you think he is 'going ok, and nothing more', then good luck to you. Maybe you're one of those people who think that Dreamteam stats mean everything? I mean, he doesn't get much of the ball, so he must be average, right?

Jamison is a great defensive talent and has not put a foot wrong since walking into Princes Park. Underselling his talent is an insult to his performances to date.

Nothing you have said changes my view but I understand nothing I have said changes your view so let's just leave it at that. In no way am i backing down (and like you could find more evidence); it just comes across like a pointless exercise - agree?

I hope you are right and that he turns out elite in the next 2 years. I do agree with you on one point, he is currently our best one-on-one stopper, and a required 22 player that helps our structure. That doesn't mean I rate him better than what he has currently shown.

 

[Jezza U Beauty]

Gibbsy, Jamming Jammy Jamison is an absolute gun.

Any astute football watcher can see that he is an elite FB in the making. If i had the time and the inclination i'd dig up footage of SOS's first 30-odd games and put it up for you.

Some things are a matter of opinion where no-one is right and no-one is wrong, but not this one. That Jamo is a top-line player (in the making) is an undisputable fact.

 

[BlackGoanna]

To go back to the topic of the thread, and to have my 2 cents worth for who I would like at pick12. I would like Scully and that obviously wont happen. I will start by ruling oout the players who will definetely be gone and then list my preferences in order.

Gone - Scully, Trengove, Marabitto, Cunningham, Rohan, Martin, Lucas

Now for my wish list.

1. Butcher - Although he has ? marks appears to be worth the punt if he manages to slip to pick 12, which is highly doubtful.
2 Talia - versailty as both ends. Reminds me of a more reilable Bower in that his kicking, compusure and decision making skills are better but has the same agility for a tall defender. Likley to be picked up before our pick.
3. Black - Only seen clips of black but was impressed with what I saw. Draft camp results impressive. IMO the only other key position player that we should consider with pick 12. Likely to be available unless the Dees pick him up at 11. If we miss out on the above then we should be taking the best available midfielder that has the ability to kick goals.
4. Tapscott - Ready made half forward/ mid. The type of player we dont have. Beautiful kick and mark and can really find the ball. Good closing speed. Would not be disapointed with this pick. Likley to go to Port.
5. Moore - I have listed 11 players above. If by chance they are all gone, I think Moore would be the best choice. Really like this kid. Could play hald forward next year. Has a great leap and speed for a half forward, plays really tall for his size and has natural footy smarts.

Jetta is an outstanding prospect, however with Yarren nd Gartlett developing I dont see the point in getting a similar player if we have to sacrifice one of the above.

In closing I think Black would be the likley option from my opinions above based on who i think will be gone. I hope that there are a few bolters that come in and give us a chance at a Buther, Talia, Lucas or Rohan

 

[Kramer1]

Gibbsy, Jamming Jammy Jamison is an absolute gun.

Any astute football watcher can see that he is an elite FB in the making. If i had the time and the inclination i'd dig up footage of SOS's first 30-odd games and put it up for you.

Some things are a matter of opinion where no-one is right and no-one is wrong, but not this one. That Jamo is a top-line player (in the making) is an undisputable fact.

Could not agree more...just wish his shoulders weren't held together with bailing twine.

 

[zeeCFC]

Did Polak nominate for the ND? otherwise I have faith in the club and whoever they pick

 

[Azzurri Blues]

What about Hawks early in the season with Jamison vs roughie. All i can remember is the 8 goals. Jamo has played some very good games and has also been towelled up as well. He is an ok FB but not a patch on the elite FBs like Scarlett, Lake and Glass. Think Lloyd did pretty well in one of the games with Jamo as well!

I didnt say he was a hack, just not elite. I would rate him as OK which is a fair analysis! If we drafted an elite backman to sit alongside him, he would improve out of site, e.g. Judd's impact on our other mids.

Bower has been the only one of the younger tall defensive players that has shown potential eliteness.

Jamo's never been towed up of late... definitely our best defender...

It was Thornton that copped it from roughie and blame ratts for leaving him on roughie after 3-4 1st qrt goals...

Bower also gets a lot kicked on him... 1st game against bris this year i think it was the 3 qtr and Bradshaw kicked 3 on him within 10 minutes... He couldn't stop him... Although he plays okay on buddy, i still wouldn't back him on a Gun forward ...

Whoever thinks we have a top defence is dreaming....

Thornton can't do a job on a small or a tall, bower struggles and Waite is wasted as a marking defender plus he gets beaten on the lead easily... Austin...??? What has he done to show he's gunna make it in the big league...??? Just cause he is big doesn't mean when should pin our hopes on him.

Maguire is a certainty to come in to the team because of our lack of stoppers. Sure our defenders can run and carry when we are playing well, but when we are not can they stop an onslaught???? IMO, no they can't...

Talia is the best option as he can play defence and forward. Plus he's got an Italian surname... Which always helps when playing for the blues...

Although i do like Moore, Jetta, and Carlisle..

 

[Azzurri Blues]

Prior to half way through this year Jamison was rarely beaten. When he missed games this year our backline stuggled to find a decent structure about it. In the later part of the year he was obviously playing injured and that's when he began to get beaten and struggled to keep up with his opponent, and thus ended his season prematurely.

When he is fit his spead off the mark means he can spoil anyone on the lead, he constantly managed to get a fist on the ball when an opponent was on the lead and seemed to have plenty of space and time to mark it. He has plenty of poise and great decision making ability (unlike Thorton early in his career and Bower sometimes at the moment)

Give him a year or two in the gym and you will find he will be able to keep up physically with any forward and he will quickly become one of the cream defenders in the competion

hear hear...

 

[Silvagnis]

2009 NAB AFL Draft Prospects - Get to know more than 200 talented youngsters ahead of the NAB AFL Draft on November 26

Jasper McMillan-Pittard

What type of player are you?

A slight winger/half back flanker who runs and carries the ball and delivers effectively into the forward line. Fairly versatile who can stick to a job given by the coach.

Which AFL player do you feel you resemble, and why?

Andrew Mackie. He is an attacking backman who can play a number of roles. He sets up play and is very good at carrying the ball and delivering it. He is a bit taller than me though.

Jasper McMillan-Pittard

Now tell me we don't need an attacking backman who can deliver the ball and set up play?

A couple of my favourite players and our defenders give me a heart attack when they bring it out of the backline.

 

[krayfesh]

We do need an attacking backman, but I'd we'd give O'Keeffe a shot first.

 

[thegreenmachine]

A sweeping backman is more of a need for us than a developing KPD IMO. That said we will take best available like we should, end of story.