Review Pick 25 for 2 Players

[TradeDraft]

Looking back on that I reckon that could be a Great Trade as we got Krakouer and Ceglar.

Krakouer can give us games Now and can make a Real Impact while Ceglar is a longer term Prospect but could turn into our Number 1 Ruckman in 3+ Seasons.

If we kept Pick 25 I reckon we would of Selected Scott Lycett who was a Highly Rated Ruckman from Port Adelaide Magpies.

But with the Trade we get 2 players for 1 Pick

Your Thoughts?

 

[The New Breid]

You should really look back on a trade like this when they've actually played a game.

 

[Swooop]

Looking back on that I reckon that could be a Great Trade as we got Krakouer and Ceglar.

Krakouer can give us games Now and can make a Real Impact while Ceglar is a longer term Prospect but could turn into our Number 1 Ruckman in 3+ Seasons.

If we kept Pick 25 I reckon we would of Selected Scott Lycett who was a Highly Rated Ruckman from Port Adelaide Magpies.

But with the Trade we get 2 players for 1 Pick

Your Thoughts?

It certainly appears like we've done really well Dave.

Later on, we'll all be able to use the retrospectoscope and say we shoulda done this or coulda done that.

It looks like we have the best of both worlds.

A seasoned potential gun in the midfield, resting up forward, or at the least a red hot sub, and a pick for the future in the ruck area we have been relatively deficient in for two decades by and large ( until we snagged Jolly.)

Maybe if anyone wishes to disagree with the use of pick 25, they should state here and now for the record, who they would have chosen after the first 24 were picked by the other clubs

 

[Stifler's mom]

Quantity doesn't beat quality Dave.

 

[Markfs]

Whenever i think of comparing players early in their careers, I think of david parkin in the early 1990s when he was being interviewed on tv about a player called james cook who carlton had recruited near the top of the draft a few years earlier, around 1990. Cook had just kicked 6 goals or more in his first game or something like that. Parkin said that Carlton knew that he had it in him, and that Carlton had a choice of picking Cook or Jason McCartney in the draft but chose Cook because, while they thought Jason would be a 100 game player, Cook was something special. I remember that comment for a number of reasons
..because McCartney was supposed to be a great player when he was drafted but he struggled at the Pies.
..Parkin was making his assessment after both blokes played a few games and it looked like Carlton's decision had been proven true.

..... and the truth ended up being that Cook ended up being a bit of a dud and McCartney didnt really show much as a player until he ended up at North several years later.

I think Krakouer is ready and motivated to play AFL. If it doesnt work out, then it wont change my opinion now. From what I heard last year about Ceglar, he was rapidly improving after a slow start to his career. From what I can see, they are easily worth a 25 pick....but reality might end up stuffing up a happy ending to the story.

 

[Ed D]

I think it's going to depend on whether Ceglar makes it as a ruckman, which hopefully he does. Although in saying that if Krakouer is the difference between a win and a loss in the finals then it won't matter so much.

 

[beavapleasa]

Actually we got 3 players for pick 25 - Tarrant, Krakouer & Ceglar


- Pick 25 for Krakouer, Ceglar, pick 55*, pick 78 and pick 95

- Pick 55* & pick 43 for Tarrant & pick 44

(Ignoring rubbish picks and pointless face save swap of 43 & 44)

Pretty good value I think.
Of course we lost Anthony for nothing so that balances it out a bit, could've retained pick 43 if we included him in the Taz trade.


I liked the trading this year, it's time to go for flags. You can never have enough midfield depth and we got one at his peak. Add Tarrant (for 2 years I expect) who is in the best back 6 of every team in the comp.

Compare that to electing to retain #25 - select Darling, Lycett or Harper who would have zero influence on winning us a flag in the next 3 years.

Losing Anthony didn't bother me personally as I didn't rate him even in his good year, but thats just me, I understand that many others did like him.


However there are downsides, giving up Pick 25 has cost us -

- cannot win the perenial 'bigfooty best young list' debates.

- criticism from the bigfooty flogs and muppet mates, "you gave up a first roundaahh, you missed out on drafting a gun", because first rounders have this mythical like power to always draft superstars and of course pick 25 is the equivelent of pick 5, after all it's a first rounder.

- criticism from luminaries such as Barrett & Ralph questioning giving up valuable first rounders thus sacrificing the chance to build a strong young list that may have a chance to challenge for the 2016 flag. To compound this after giving up #14, #30 & #46 the previous year to get two over 25's which was also criticised at the time by luminaries Barrett & Ralph.


I'll take Krak & Taz (& Ceglar) and a shot at the 2011 flag thanks.

 

[Ed D]

Does anyone know where Ceglar might have gone if he was selected in the draft? Was he being talked up at all?

 

[jc37]

I like this trade period. We improved our list with Tarrant and Krakouer.

We also picked up
Stubbs and Ceglar.

On top of this we have two freebie players in Cribben and Tom Young our VFL best and fairest. These two could mean we have not missed gaining and developing quality youth in our list. Either could potentially end up being a top 25 player.

Not losing anyone in the grand final 22 but clearing out a lot of experience, the pies are actually starting to rebuild our list while we are on top and have a spine with the oldest player Cloke being 23.

Anthony is certainly a loss. He is never going to be a superstar forward as he does not seem to have enough tools however I think he could be a very good full back but at the same age as nathan brown, I guess something had to give.

 

[Medders123]

Overall I think this was a good trade. We got 2 players which will put pressure on spots in the senior side and, also a developing ruckman (just in case Wood doesn't work out). Even though we had a massive list turnover of experienced players we got 2 others who with the natural progression of the younger ones (i.e. Rounds, J. Thomas, Buckley, Sinclair etc.) will push for spots. I think we are in a fantastic position for 2011.

 

[Jedi01]

Excited about Krakouer.

Ceglar will no doubt turn into another dud ruckman at the pies. Lets just keep poaching rucks.

 

[Lockyer24]

What Jedi said.

Real good feeling about Krak. Young rucks scare me.

 

[jonbe54]

Agree on Krak, he's scary quick and super hard at the ball in the WAFL - if he brings even 2/3rds of that form here will help lift our mid/forward rotations from very good to threateningly ominous.

 

[September Action]

Don't remember Krak at Richmond but opposed posters seem to indicate he was nothing special. I appreciate his form in the WAFL and the fact that he is older, but can we really expect Krak to tear it up in the AFL given his previous attempt? Thoughts?

Why is it that we have never developed an elite ruck in recent memory? All our projects don't seem to come on? Some teams seem to develop great rucks at will. Even Josh at no.1 ultimately disappointed. Here's hoping that Ceglar, or one of the others, will break the mould. (Incidentally, I think Josh will tear it up at the Suns, this year. Will consider for DT if not too fat on price.)

 

[Swooop]

Don't remember Krak at Richmond but opposed posters seem to indicate he was nothing special. I appreciate his form in the WAFL and the fact that he is older, but can we really expect Krak to tear it up in the AFL given his previous attempt? Thoughts?

I think he will tear it up.

He's older and no doubt, a hell of a lot wiser then he was.

Plus, he's in a culture probably second to none at the moment.

For those reasons, IMO, he will give it everything...the question then becomes does he have the skills to carry it off...

Yes he does.

 

[Jedi01]

Don't remember Krak at Richmond but opposed posters seem to indicate he was nothing special. I appreciate his form in the WAFL and the fact that he is older, but can we really expect Krak to tear it up in the AFL given his previous attempt? Thoughts?

Why is it that we have never developed an elite ruck in recent memory? All our projects don't seem to come on? Some teams seem to develop great rucks at will. Even Josh at no.1 ultimately disappointed. Here's hoping that Ceglar, or one of the others, will break the mould. (Incidentally, I think Josh will tear it up at the Suns, this year. Will consider for DT if not too fat on price.)

I am not expecting Krakouer to tear it up, but he will certainly add to the team imo. Similar to what Pods did at Geelong.

He doesn't need to come in and dominate games, just contribute to the midfield/forward rotations, in turn making the team slightly better.

 

[Ed D]

The problem with Krakouer at Richmond was he was played as a small forward and he wasn't consistent, but he played really well in some games, got shut down in others. So it's not as though he can't be a great player, it's all about playing him in the right position and having team mates block for him and all that sort of thing.

 

[jonbe54]

I'm constantly amazed by posters pointing to his days at Richmond - for those harping on about this please go to the trouble of researching his last season in the WAFL. He is now a player totally changed from the young and most likely homesick player that Richmond hosted for a time.

 

[Quicky]

Agree on Krak, he's scary quick and super hard at the ball in the WAFL - if he brings even 2/3rds of that form here will help lift our mid/forward rotations from very good to threateningly ominous.

Don't remember Krak at Richmond but opposed posters seem to indicate he was nothing special. I appreciate his form in the WAFL and the fact that he is older, but can we really expect Krak to tear it up in the AFL given his previous attempt? Thoughts?

Why is it that we have never developed an elite ruck in recent memory? All our projects don't seem to come on? Some teams seem to develop great rucks at will. Even Josh at no.1 ultimately disappointed. Here's hoping that Ceglar, or one of the others, will break the mould. (Incidentally, I think Josh will tear it up at the Suns, this year. Will consider for DT if not too fat on price.)

He has torn games of AFL apart when he was at Richmond. He was inconsistent and ultimately ruined his career with his off-field issues. I think he is every chance in our midfield, with less attention on him, to do well.

Also Krak never struck me as particularly quick. Evasive but not quick. I think his evasiveness gives that impression but it's misleading.

 

[Jedi01]

I'm constantly amazed by posters pointing to his days at Richmond - for those harping on about this please go to the trouble of researching his last season in the WAFL. He is now a player totally changed from the young and most likely homesick player that Richmond hosted for a time.

Why would you be 'constantly amazed' with people bringing up a recycled players prior AFL stats.

Besides I have not seen many Collingwood supporters pointing to these stats in negative manner.

 

[jonbe54]

Why would you be 'constantly amazed' with people bringing up a recycled players prior AFL stats.

Besides I have not seen many Collingwood supporters pointing to these stats in negative manner.

Because anyone who has taken the effort to look at his performances since turning the corner with eyes that are unbiased from his earlier trouble years would know he is neither the same player or the same person that he was years ago. He was dropped from Richmond because of the on field affect of his personal issues. Those issues are long since cleared up and no longer apply. People who insist his holding his Richmond performances of years ago against him are not taking into account his current performances. Look at the player without prejudice from previous failure and asses his current capabilities. That is obviously what the recruiters did and I'll back Derek's acumen against any amount of close minded bias.

 

[Ed D]

Also Krak never struck me as particularly quick. Evasive but not quick. I think his evasiveness gives that impression but it's misleading.

It depends on what you call quick. If you're talking about agility, reaction time and ability to move the ball on then he's quick. If you're talking about raw pace in a 50m+ sprint then that's a different story, but he's not slow either.

 

[Quicky]

It depends on what you call quick. If you're talking about agility, reaction time and ability to move the ball on then he's quick. If you're talking about raw pace in a 50m+ sprint then that's a different story, but he's not slow either.

I took the comment as referring to pure pace. Agree with everything you've written.

 

[Ed D]

Just a general question, what do you think is needed for the Pies? I guess it depends on his role in the team, but from what I've seen the quick bursts and being able to dispose of the ball quickly is what we'd want. Those quick breakaways, not so much the long runs considering we often have players on the break.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I think it is premature to make a judgement on this. Lets wait until Krakouer is wearing the Norm Smith later this year