List Mgmt. Pick 9

[TerryWallet]

I’m probably in the minority, but I think Wells’ drafting (particularly in the first round) has been average/bordering on poor.

Wells is as good as the other decent ones and as bad as the other decent ones imo. They get em right and they get em wrong. They have good spells and they have poor spells.

It's like bloodstock experts at the yearling sales. Luck plays it's part before your pick and after it.

But professionalism, sanity, and some sort of eye keeps you in the game.

 

[BluesTragic]

Imo, Robertson will be lucky to get to us at 9 and little chance to get past 10. If you like him, keep the pick and grab him, don't downgrade it.

I think we could do worse TW...some question his disposal but he gets his own ball....you can’t dispose if you don’t get it...just sayin !!


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[Coops93]

I know there’s been a few negatives directed at him but I’m in the Deven Robertson camp...maybe not at 9 but if we did split the pick I reckon he has upside and is a bull


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I too would like Robertson. He's my no.1 though I don't think he's as sexy a pick as some others.

 

[TerryWallet]

I think we could do worse TW...some question his disposal but he gets his own ball....you can’t dispose if you don’t get it...just sayin !!


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Yeah, i like him too. If i had 9 on the night and he was there, i'd find it hard to go past him.

 

[Arr0w]

I’m probably in the minority, but I think Wells’ drafting (particularly in the first round) has been average/bordering on poor.

Bingo

Last 5 years have been average

 

[Red Bull]

I like Robertson too.
Got a bit of “September” about him.

 

[Arr0w]

Perhaps reality needs to be embraced, which will give us a better understanding of our true "needs"

Second have of the year, we improved our ratio of inside 50's differential, but it was still poor even in some close wins

Our conversion, once inside 50 was above average compared to the opposition

We need mids/high HF's, rather than small forwards

 

[Eiffel 65]

Club is really being tight-lipped about this pick

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I’m probably in the minority, but I think Wells’ drafting (particularly in the first round) has been average/bordering on poor.

He has been really poor in the first round but that is also what makes him so good imo, he can build a list without nailing early picks. Plus he hasn’t had any real top end picks. In the last 5 years he has two top 20 picks and it looks like one will work out and the others career will be destroyed by injury. (Which was a known risk before the draft)

 

[skadoosh]

Fair points but (I'll stop soon, because on repeat cycle here) opportunity stands for a lot. It does to me, at least.
Right now we're thread bare on small/medium goal-kickers. Teague wants them, the club want them but we have not got them.
We put our eggs into one basket and that basket broke. Do we just keep waiting, knowing our basket will hold eggs next year or do we become proactive?

We haven't put a lot of effort in this department and loaded up on mids. Are we really better off for having done so?
I think Dow should be a wonderful player but could also become surplus to needs, should we skim over him in favour of giving opportunities to others. I see O'Brien in the same boat and actually more so. I don't want that to come about can see situations where they may.

O'Brien could easily lose a home with Newnes and Martin coming on and it's not too hard to imagine if Dow doesn't play midfield that his opportunities elsewhere may become more and more limited.

Some will call that hindsight recruiting but it's not, as at the time of their uptake, we didn't know what we'd be doing in subsequent years but now we know what we've done and can evaluate things on how they are today and not were two years ago.

Did we plan things out well? I don't think we did.

To summarise, I would ask the question: how do you draft, trade and in what position do you play these players such that you achieve sustainable success, maximising the chances of winning premierships?

There are so many little pieces of the puzzle which might lead to long term averageness or long term success. Carlton just need to be able to identify how they go about achieving their goals.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Another good reason to trade for 15 & 20 with GC, we will miss Ash but Rivers is a great get if we could get him at 15 and put a full pre season into him before unleashing him across half back even if it’s at NB to start with, another option would be Bianco who while small is a magnificent kick and would make a good long term replacement for Simmo. It then leaves us with a free hit at 20 for someone like Cooper Stephens or with some luck Dylan Williams, I honestly can see Rivers being the equal of anyone else in the top 10, still want another pick around the 30 mark for my man Pickett which would be a great draft for us.

I like the idea, but we'd need to find an Ash equivalent to make it worthwhile.

Depending on how our midfield develops, SPS across half back is our elite ball user (rules out Bianco) and Docherty/Plowman would probably keep Rivers out.

We need that genuine line breaking run and carry defender. Maybe that's more your Jeremy Sharp type playing across half back.

Really like the look of Elijah Taylor if we trade back down the order.

De Koning would be a handy addition as a long term replacement for Jones.

Bergman and Williams would probably be the other two most appealing to us.

 

[windows1]

There are similarities between the two but Stephens appears to be a more dynamic footballer.

Stephens looks to have pace to burn but more importantly a willingness to use it throughout a game. Not sure LOB has that same pace and certainly hasn't shown a willingness to use it to his advantage thus far.

He also has a very solid inside game, though with his frame he'll probably need a few years to build up his body before he sees meaningful time as part of an AFL midfield rotation. LOB doesn't appear to have that inside game though his outside nature isn't anywhere near as big an issue as many were making it out to be in the leadup to the 2017 draft.

Stephens can spend time in the middle. So can LOB.....while walking to the wing on the far side.

 

[windows1]

I would have described Stephens as a cross between Fisher and LOB, without necessarily being better at anything than either, maybe just more consistent in contested work.

I reckon Stephens is a poor man’s Walsh.

 

[windows1]

Perhaps reality needs to be embraced, which will give us a better understanding of our true "needs"

Second have of the year, we improved our ratio of inside 50's differential, but it was still poor even in some close wins

Our conversion, once inside 50 was above average compared to the opposition

We need mids/high HF's, rather than small forwards

Maybe someone like Jack Martin?

 

[Dooky]

Lachlan Ash on SEN Breakfast (1/11/2019)

<div>Draft prospect Lachlan Ash was on to talk about the clubs he has spoken to, how he is feeling ahead of the draft and where he sees himself on the field</div>

player.fm

Go to the 7:10 min mark of this interview. Lachie Ash said if he could choose a club would be Carlton as has had a bit to do with Teague...interesting.

Also love to hear 18 year olds wanting to come to us!

 

[Gingerbread man]

Had the same thought about a week ago when trying to think of a similar "known" player.

Sidebum has the benefit of a long career and oodles of experience, I think he's made do with less athletic gifts than Stephens has. Sidebum tends to play a bit more stationary, though he's phenomenal at those little half steps that somehow keep him out of reach of an opponent, while Stephens is more inclined to get on his bike and take the ball with him.

There isn't really a neat equivalent. Shane Edwards-ish? Dylan Shiel with a functioning foot and a bit more composure? Modern-day Trent Cotchin?

Sidebottom is a freak runner if Stephens is better.... Sell the farm

 

[Gingerbread man]

What does Stephens do differently?

I'm not being smart I really don't know outside of a very brief write up basically describing what you just did - likes to run, left footer.

The obvious difference to me is Stephens gets a hell of a lot more of the ball, LOB possession numbers even at TAC level were low.

 

[Arr0w]

Maybe someone like Jack Martin?

You are catching on streaky

 

[windows1]

You are catching on streaky

Can I tend the rabbits George? Can I? Huh?

 

[rog1995]

Back to pick 9:

I don’t want Kemp. Just some thoughts after watching more of his full game action:

Positives:
- he does have terrific speed and movement for his size
- nice hands and a good mark
- nice kick
- makes good decisions

Negatives:
- he’s totally speculative as a mid. There’s really little evidence to say he CAN do it and more to say he can’t.
- I don’t think he reads the play at all. He’s not a natural ‘hunter’ of the ball. Doesn’t seem to know where it’s going or how to get it.
- unsure he has a good tank. Doesn’t seem to.

Overall I think he’s drafted as a forward. Third tall type. If he develops into a midfield role it should be seen as a bonus rather than expected. I think he’s a very good forward prospect. Just not sure our list needs yet another 190+cm forward.

Hoping for Stephens. I was thinking Serong May drop but I’ve watched more of him. There’s no way.

I’m finding it hard to work out how there’s not a quite predictable top 9 now.

Rowell, Anderson, Young, Flanders, Green, Jackson, Stephens, Serong and Ash. Kemp is with them on talent just not the player we want in my view.

We want Ash, Flanders serong or Stephens.

I just don’t want people thinking ‘we draft Kemp and wait and year and we have another big bodied mid’. It MAY turn out that way but it’s FAR more likely that he stays a forward. Occasional midfield bursts.

Personally I don’t think you draft first round picks on speculation. You draft on what you know.

Kemp reminds me alot of Darcy Fogarty with a knee injury. Not really the type of player we need.

 

[GT619]

Kemp reminds me alot of Darcy Fogarty with a knee injury. Not really the type of player we need.

which player do you think we should grab

 

[Sheephead]

I like the idea, but we'd need to find an Ash equivalent to make it worthwhile.

Depending on how our midfield develops, SPS across half back is our elite ball user (rules out Bianco) and Docherty/Plowman would probably keep Rivers out.

We need that genuine line breaking run and carry defender. Maybe that's more your Jeremy Sharp type playing across half back.

Really like the look of Elijah Taylor if we trade back down the order.

De Koning would be a handy addition as a long term replacement for Jones.

Bergman and Williams would probably be the other two most appealing to us.

Didn’t we have a run and carry in Schumacher? Would not be adverse to rookie listing him.

Still think we will trade back with GCS and target that 2020 mid first compo they got. At 15 or 20 we target Cooper Stephens or Deven Robertson.

 

[HARKER]

Perhaps reality needs to be embraced, which will give us a better understanding of our true "needs"
Second have of the year, we improved our ratio of inside 50's differential, but it was still poor even in some close wins
Our conversion, once inside 50 was above average compared to the opposition
We need mids/high HF's, rather than small forwards

We need both, but I've been saying goal-kickers whether they be 186cm or 178cm.
We need players that can manufacture goals through minimum opportunity and function in tandem with the talls.
Ideally it would be good to have one Jamie Elliot type and an Eddie Betts type (a younger Eddie Betts) / and no combination of ECurnow, Polson, Gibbons, Dow or Fisher will give you that. It was fantasy last year and will continue to be so.

Having said that though, if one hasn't heard the club talking about the needs for small forwards, one hasn't been listening or refusing to listen.
It was patently obvious this time last year, our targets were clear via this trade period and they'll continue to be clear.

To summarise, I would ask the question: how do you draft, trade and in what position do you play these players such that you achieve sustainable success, maximising the chances of winning premierships?
There are so many little pieces of the puzzle which might lead to long term averageness or long term success. Carlton just need to be able to identify how they go about achieving their goals.

You have to know where you are as a list and you have to know what you want to be via your list.
To simply take on players with the view 'We'll work out how they fit in later on' is........simple.......and this competition will ask more of you than to be simple.

I'm no list manager but I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't be considering how to make the whole better.
I may look good by picking the player I rank to be best in the group, but that doesn't necessarily amount to being the player that adds the most to the whole.
The two situations aren't mutually bound.

 

[Arr0w]

We need both, but I've been saying goal-kickers whether they be 186cm or 178cm.
We need players that can manufacture goals through minimum opportunity and function in tandem with the talls.
Ideally it would be good to have one Jamie Elliot type and an Eddie Betts type (a younger Eddie Betts) / and no combination of ECurnow, Polson, Gibbons, Dow or Fisher will give you that. It was fantasy last year and will continue to be so.

Having said that though, if one hasn't heard the club talking about the needs for small forwards, one hasn't been listening or refusing to listen.
It was patently obvious this time last year, our targets were clear via this trade period and they'll continue to be clear.

Oh the targets during trade period have been very clear and exactly what is considered "needs" based targets

A younger, durable, combative ruckman

The rest, a mixture of speed, agility, but more importantly elite footskills, no matter what position they play

Newnes, Martin tick those boxes, so did Papley, none are pigeonholed as only small forwards

 

[HARKER]

Oh the targets during trade period have been very clear and exactly what is considered "needs" based targets
A younger, durable, combative ruckman
The rest, a mixture of speed, agility, but more importantly elite footskills, no matter what position they play
Newnes, Martin tick those boxes, so did Papley, none are pigeonholed as only small forwards

We walked into the trade period with Papley our principle 'realistic target. Martin @ 2 and then had Betts and Butler behind them.
Likely that we could have got Butler but didn't need him if Papley and Martin came on board......ooops

That alone suggests to me that goal-kicking forwards were on top of our list. I can't see it any other way.
Not a midfielder not back-man amongst that group.

I wonder where Martin will be played? What do you think?