List Mgmt. Pick 9

[Robertio]

Is there much difference between pick nine and pick eighteen? I'm not a draft watcher but we need a small forward and while Eddies there should we grab Pickett at nine if we can't downgrade it. Someones going to grab him in the first round.

 

[Ash05]

Why do clubs continue to "help" the Giants? With the reported trade between Giants and Crows, the Giants get 2 top 5 players again and we end up with pick 10. Adelaide needed to tell the Giants to go away and bid on Greene and force Giants hand instead they help them for a late teen draft pick next year. The Giants get enough help from the AFL with clubs continually helping as well

 

[bigm386]

Why do clubs continue to "help" the Giants? With the reported trade between Giants and Crows, the Giants get 2 top 5 players again and we end up with pick 10. Adelaide needed to tell the Giants to go away and bid on Greene and force Giants hand instead they help them for a late teen draft pick next year. The Giants get enough help from the AFL with clubs continually helping as well

The academy system has completely compromised the draft, but this isn't news.

 

[smashbox gill]

Why do clubs continue to "help" the Giants? With the reported trade between Giants and Crows, the Giants get 2 top 5 players again and we end up with pick 10. Adelaide needed to tell the Giants to go away and bid on Greene and force Giants hand instead they help them for a late teen draft pick next year. The Giants get enough help from the AFL with clubs continually helping as well

Because they have got an extra 1st round pick for it?
And also probably has not affected who they were going to take.
Smart deal for the crows

 

[HARKER]

Yes I believe what I have written - Carlton is nowhere near being able to gamble with picks and doesn't need to either. Most positions are now covered - time to add (more) depth to coverage - and depth is the best young talent you can get your hands on + development time. The task now is to have two strong sides and competition for places- not experiments and reaches because it looks like fun.

Where did I say that we should gamble with picks? I didn't say that.

Yes, most positions are covered and this is a good thing and which is why we should be looking at filling the gaps and not simply be doubling up on types.
Yes, two strong sides are important. Very much so and development is also critically important. Development of premium talent works best in the premium side......I've seen this over several years of watching the NB's to think I may have some idea on it.

Anyway, my point was: Do not get stuck with the one formula thinking it will serve you well forever and a day.
I have little doubt that we are well aware of this and I feel you do to.

 

[murphster]

Yeah - it's also an asshat move to make which potentially has repercussions down the track. I'd prefer to play ball with them, no threats, just an offer to swap our later picks for their Pick 22 and an assurance we won't bid on Henry. They get to use their early picks, they can still match a bid for Henry, and we swap some later picks we may not need to use for a well-positioned early second. Everyone comes out ahead and nobody walks away with an axe to grind.

Yeah I sort of rushed the post and certainly didn’t mean to make it sound like a threat, when all said and done it comes down to Freo either having 9 to use on a player or 22 and there is no threat involved as we would take Henry at 9 if available it’s just simple economics of the situation, if we bid and they have to use 10 to match they are left with 22, if they trade for our 9 they get to pick another player at 9 before having to match another bid on Henry so boiled down they are upgrading from 22 to 9 so there should be no need for us to add 43 or 57 to the deal as they are much better off anyway.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Yeah I sort of rushed the post and certainly didn’t mean to make it sound like a threat, when all said and done it comes down to Freo either having 9 to use on a player or 22 and there is no threat involved as we would take Henry at 9 if available it’s just simple economics of the situation, if we bid and they have to use 10 to match they are left with 22, if they trade for our 9 they get to pick another player at 9 before having to match another bid on Henry so boiled down they are upgrading from 22 to 9 so there should be no need for us to add 43 or 57 to the deal as they are much better off anyway.

Outcome is almost the same in both our scenarios.

The slight differences are important though.

No need to swap 9 and 10. All that does is give Freo a chance to pick our pocket and take our preferred player, better for us to retain 9 and use it first.

And by framing it as a late pick swap to help both clubs out (and a wink/nod that doing so means we'd have alternatives to Henry), we don't ruffle feathers.

 

[Ash05]

Because they have got an extra 1st round pick for it?
And also probably has not affected who they were going to take.
Smart deal for the crows

Well if the crows are too weak to stand up to the Giants I hope that Melbourne bid on Greene and stuff up the Giants plans

 

[Stamos]

Well if the crows are too weak to stand up to the Giants I hope that Melbourne bid on Greene and stuff up the Giants plans

It's not about not standing up to them, the Crows are probably getting they player they want anyway, plus an extra 1st rounder next year.

But from our point of view (and every other club's), a Melbourne bid on Green would be good. Giants won't match, and will take Jackson, and the top 10 won't be compromised.

 

[HARKER]

May be fair to say that our pick #9 will now be a pick #10

Not many clubs could possibly have enough talent on the books to be doing what GWS can do. Maybe GC in a few years time?

 

[Doro]

Well if the crows are too weak to stand up to the Giants I hope that Melbourne bid on Greene and stuff up the Giants plans

Green is pretty much the last type of player the Dees need. Think the Giants would not match the bid and take Jackson.

 

[murphster]

Outcome is almost the same in both our scenarios.

The slight differences are important though.

No need to swap 9 and 10. All that does is give Freo a chance to pick our pocket and take our preferred player, better for us to retain 9 and use it first.

And by framing it as a late pick swap to help both clubs out (and a wink/nod that doing so means we'd have alternatives to Henry), we don't ruffle feathers.

Fair enough but I would be keeping 43 and using the other picks after that one 57, 70 and 85 which leaves us with the required(pretty sure each club has to use 3 picks) 3 picks to use in 9, 22 & 43 if they aren’t happy with that we go the other way and swap 9 for 10 & 22 and hold onto 43,57,70 & 85 which we can on trade with another club to get another 2nd rounder. Hard but the reality of the situation.

Actually now that I look at there picks if we did take 10 & 22 from them with nothing extra going to them they are left with only 219 points to match a Henry bid so we would have to give them some extra picks so they could match the bid that comes later and points wise that would have to include 43 which is 378 points and 57 which is 182, 70 is only 39 so almost worthless. So 43, 57 & 70 comes to 599 plus there 219 gives them 818 which equates to about pick 23, so even at that with the 20% discount they would get they still couldn’t afford a bid to come before about 17 without going into deficit next year, which I think you can do. Now that is some convoluted bullshit right there my friends, but that’s where it is.

 

[Red Bull]

As i see things after todays trading :

1.GC Rowell
2.GC Anderson
3.Melb Jackson
4.GWS Young
5.GWS Green
6.SYD Flanders
7.Adel Stephens
8.Freo Robertson
9.Melb Ash
10.Carl Kemp

Absolutely see us "chatting" with Freo re Henry.
Then of course, always the possibility we trade down.

 

[MileHigh]

Well if the crows are too weak to stand up to the Giants I hope that Melbourne bid on Greene and stuff up the Giants plans

Exactly this. Why club's don't bid on a player knowing fully well they want him before the bid comes is beyond me. If that's the case it's all to gentlemanly and clubs are getting free rides on players they shouldn't be. SOS bid on Will Setterfield to keep GWS honest before taking SPS. I remember Dodoro bidding on JSOS to keep us honest. It should be happening earlier as these academy and zone selections seem to slide 3-4 places because club's think there's no point.

 

[Eiffel 65]

As i see things after todays trading :

1.GC Rowell
2.GC Anderson
3.Melb Jackson
4.GWS Young
5.GWS Green
6.SYD Flanders
7.Adel Stephens
8.Freo Robertson
9.Melb Ash
10.Carl Kemp

Absolutely see us "chatting" with Freo re Henry.
Then of course, always the possibility we trade down.

Looks like the draft is shaping that way.

 

[Tim H]

And by framing it as a late pick swap to help both clubs out (and a wink/nod that doing so means we'd have alternatives to Henry), we don't ruffle feathers.

It's called draft tampering and might lead to losing picks 9,10,22 and 43.

AFL HQ do a lot of stupid things but are not blind.

 

[KohPhi]

Well if the crows are too weak to stand up to the Giants I hope that Melbourne bid on Greene and stuff up the Giants plans

How is it weak grabbing an extra 1st Rounder for a drop of a couple of spots? If they have identified who they want and he will still be there, then its smart trading.

 

[GT619]

As i see things after todays trading :

1.GC Rowell
2.GC Anderson
3.Melb Jackson
4.GWS Young
5.GWS Green
6.SYD Flanders
7.Adel Stephens
8.Freo Robertson
9.Melb Ash
10.Carl Kemp

Absolutely see us "chatting" with Freo re Henry.
Then of course, always the possibility we trade down.

I can deal with kemp

 

[TerryWallet]

How is it weak grabbing an extra 1st Rounder for a drop of a couple of spots? If they have identified who they want and he will still be there, then its smart trading.

I think it is a goodish safe option by Adelaide in the reality of where we sit right now.

But the worrying thing i would have in my mind if i was Adelaide heirarchy is that their List Management group have completely reversed core theory in the space of 12 months.

Trade out 2 more generic picks for a more premium pick.

then

Trade out the more premium pick for 2 more generic picks.

They are all over the shop whilst pushing themselves back 2 years in a row.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Not only do GWS draft top kids from their academy every yea4 but play the perfect game with their draft picks and amazingly all the other clubs are too dumb to put a stop to it.

 

[KohPhi]

Not only do GWS draft top kids from their academy every yea4 but play the perfect game with their draft picks and amazingly all the other clubs are too dumb to put a stop to it.

I dont think the clubs generally give a **** about how a deal will look for the opposition.
If they see an opportunity to improve their own position, they'll do the deal.

 

[Matty411]

Crows make out like bandits in that trade, but it'll help them get another top pick so they won't care.

Seems were firming for Kemp, who trained with us PS. I believe we took LOB who also trained with us the preview PS. Reckon we'd sooner take a punt on Kemp than Serong (who also trained with us in PS).

 

[TerryWallet]

I posted the below in another thread but it fits here and is my opinion on Pick 9:


For those worried about Kemp and his knee, look at Setters now. He had more than just a single ACL go wrong early. It's not ideal, but it's not a death sentence.

In 12 months time, Kemp will still be 6'4 with elite speed and elite disposal who can play anywhere on the field but really wants to train hard and play as a mid. Where he played once during the Champs and got it 28 times. He'll just be 19 instead of 18.

Robertson or Kemp for mine please at 9. If they were gone, i'd consider offers to trade down if they were good enough offers.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Jackson looks like he is Melbourne bound at 3.
Still think Port and Gold Coast will come.

Port won’t move now unless Geelong do.

 

[BluesTragic]

I posted the below in another thread but it fits here and is my opinion on Pick 9:


For those worried about Kemp and his knee, look at Setters now. He had more than just a single ACL go wrong early. It's not ideal, but it's not a death sentence.

In 12 months time, Kemp will still be 6'4 with elite speed and elite disposal who can play anywhere on the field but really wants to train hard and play as a mid. Where he played once during the Champs and got it 28 times. He'll just be 19 instead of 18.

Robertson or Kemp for mine please at 9. If they were gone, i'd consider offers to trade down if they were good enough offers.

Yep TW, definitely Robertson if he’s there but Kemp won’t be disastrous either...he’ll be a beast


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