Pick Swap Completed

[Enviable Tradition]

We should take bets on how long it will take for the Stephens > Rozee article to appear in The Advertiser.

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[Elite Crow]

Adelaide doesn't care about GWS. They care about themselves. They know they aren't challenging next year, so they are trying to supercharge a rebuild in what has to be the two worst drafts in history.

They were always into Stephens with their first round pick. Basically, they are regaining the pick they lost by trading out 19 in 2018 with this trade.

You’ve got 3 first round picks in a draft you rate one of the worst 2 in history, seems an odd position to take

 

[TheFVK]

What never gets mentioned in Australia or on bigfooty (yet) is the time value of these picks. In any two given (even) drafts, a pick this year is worth more than a pick next year. Bringing forward a pick permits teams to cash it early, allowing teams to make up the shortfall the following year through other avenues like free agency.

NBA draft watchers calculate the premium clubs are willing to bring forward a first round pick at (from memory) 20-30%. So the on-paper lopsided nature of these trades is impacted by a double whammy of poor draft strength in 2020 AND the premium attributed to the time value of the pick.

 

[Janus]

You’ve got 3 first round picks in a draft you rate one of the worst 2 in history, seems an odd position to take

This draft is bad but there's still quality in the first round. It's just shallow. Getting three first round picks and Mead is good business.

Next year is s**t. Why do you think Melbourne, GWS and Port have all traded out of it, with Hawthorn trying to do the same? When one club does it, it's just a guess. When three clubs do it...there's something to it.

 

[robbo1981]

What's with the influx of crows posters they do something good?

 

[Interstater]

What's with the influx of crows posters they do something good?

Point them to our membership page.

 

[Far Kern]

What I have consistently heard on SEN is not that this draft is s**t. Outside the first few it is FLAT. It is the perfect draft to get multiple picks inside 20, then a FS. Picks after the first few are all potentially the same. The club is doing the right thing.

 

[OneGreatClub]

What's with the influx of crows posters they do something good?

We did a pick swap, so they did a pick swap

 

[neddy36]

This draft is bad but there's still quality in the first round. It's just shallow. Getting three first round picks and Mead is good business.

I love it how you become an expert in the quality of the draft based on six weeks of reading phantom drafts and watching two minute clips. How many games have you been to where you've watched this year's draftable talent live?

Next year is s**t. Why do you think Melbourne, GWS and Port have all traded out of it, with Hawthorn trying to do the same? When one club does it, it's just a guess. When three clubs do it...there's something to it.

I also love it how you been able to evaluate the entire 2020 draft crop and assess its viability without seeing any of them live.

You do realise that there is also three teams that have acquired an extra first round pick in those trades? When one club does it, it's just a guess. When three clubs do it...there's something to it.

As others have pointed out, not everything you state is fact.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

What's with the influx of crows posters they do something good?

A couple of posters who happen to support the crows contributing to the discussion and being respectful and you still have a problem?

Then it’s you not them.

 

[GoTheMightyCrows]

I love it how you become an expert in the quality of the draft based on six weeks of reading phantom drafts and watching two minute clips. How many games have you been to where you've watched this year's draftable talent live?

That is the case for 99% of posters on here.

 

[Nihilus]

I don't get why the Crows would want to do this. They basically hand GWS a second top 5 player this year, in exchange for getting a likely late first round pick next year.

GWS has already improved their starting 22 with Jacobs over Mumford, and now they're gaining 2 top 5 players. You wouldn't think they're likely to head down the ladder as a result of this season.

The cows may have Edwards 2nd son to bid on if he wants to go there (but atm it is 50/50) … and they also got some NGA player Sladojevic (one of their KPF replacement) they also rate.

Also they want to tempt the Suns with 2 x 1st round draft picks for either Rankine / Luko but they haven't realized yet that the Suns don't want draft picks they want very good players for any trades.... They also haven't realized that the Suns are putting together a big list of South Australian players (currently at 10) to build limit homesickness and build the bond with Rankine / Luko.

so they might use their extra 1st round draft pick to get a good Ruckman ..

 

[Janus]

I love it how you become an expert in the quality of the draft based on six weeks of reading phantom drafts and watching two minute clips. How many games have you been to where you've watched this year's draftable talent live?



I also love it how you been able to evaluate the entire 2020 draft crop and assess its viability without seeing any of them live.

You do realise that there is also three teams that have acquired an extra first round pick in those trades? When one club does it, it's just a guess. When three clubs do it...there's something to it.

As others have pointed out, not everything you state is fact.

You’ll see it’s rubbish soon enough.

Look at the clubs that traded into it - Adelaide, North Melbourne and Brisbane.

Brisbane traded into it because they’ve got academy players that will attract multiple bids and they need points. Ditto Adelaide, who has to find points for Edwards and Borlase...plus they probably want to use their own draft pick somewhere.

Got no idea why North traded into it. Probably for the same reason I guess.

I don’t need to see them live. I trust the people who are paid to evaluate talent. And they say it’s rubbish.

 

[neddy36]

You’ll see it’s rubbish soon enough.

Maybe I will. The difference between you and I though is that I will watch live about 100 games in total of SANFL/School/Nationals football and have an opinion that is truly my own at the end of it.

Look at the clubs that traded into it - Adelaide, North Melbourne and Brisbane.

Brisbane traded into it because they’ve got academy players that will attract multiple bids and they need points. Ditto Adelaide, who has to find points for Edwards and Borlase...plus they probably want to use their own draft pick somewhere.

Got no idea why North traded into it. Probably for the same reason I guess.

I don’t need to see them live. I trust the people who are paid to evaluate talent. And they say it’s rubbish.

But in your previous post and others relating to the draft you talk about the 2019/20 drafts as if they are your own opinion. Are all of your posts and views just parroted opinions of others more qualified?

Look at the clubs that traded out of it - Port Adelaide, Melbourne and GWS.

Both Melbourne and Port Adelaide have senior coaches that cannot afford another poor season for the sake of job security. There is no doubt they would have had some say in the opportunity to bring forward an asset which helps them win in 2020.

GWS made the right call to move up. Essentially they are assured of getting a top 4 talent and Green versus the risk of a Green bid before 6 and a pick in the 10-18 range in 2020. As you like to say - "it's good business".

The perceived quality of the 2020 draft would have had some but little factor in those deals being instigated.

 

[Vagabond0]

This draft is bad but there's still quality in the first round. It's just shallow. Getting three first round picks and Mead is good business.

Next year is s**t. Why do you think Melbourne, GWS and Port have all traded out of it, with Hawthorn trying to do the same? When one club does it, it's just a guess. When three clubs do it...there's something to it.

Yeah right. Interesting.

So what does that theory say about this year's draft when Brisbane, Collingwood, Essendon, and North Melbourne all traded out of the first round.

While West coast and St Kilda traded out of the first two rounds.

 

[Revan11]

So GWS don't have a top 10 pick developing away in their academy? That's a rarity.

GWS' 1st Round Picks
2011 1,2,3,4,5,7,9,10,11,13,14
2012 1,2,3,12,14
2013 1,2,14
2014 4,6,7,
2015 7*,13*,16* * = academy pick
======
2016 2,5*,14*,20*
2017 11,
2018 11,14
2019 4 + *Green a top 10 pick

GWS probably have 10 more years of top 10 picks, despite likely to finish top 4 or top 6 most years.

That is so f**ked up.

 

[robbo1981]

A couple of posters who happen to support the crows contributing to the discussion and being respectful and you still have a problem?

Then it’s you not them.

Didn't say I had problem was just asking the question if that's alright with you?

 

[Smithy7]

A couple of posters who happen to support the crows contributing to the discussion and being respectful and you still have a problem?

Then it’s you not them.

Ford & Macca have both stated they have no problems with Crows coming on our board as long as they are respectful and not trolling.
I have posted on the Crows board and had a Crows member there have a disgusting go at me.
Crows Mod deaneus, sent me a message saying he had no problems with me posting on their board, as I was not trolling.

 

[Janus]

Maybe I will. The difference between you and I though is that I will watch live about 100 games in total of SANFL/School/Nationals football and have an opinion that is truly my own at the end of it.

But in your previous post and others relating to the draft you talk about the 2019/20 drafts as if they are your own opinion. Are all of your posts and views just parroted opinions of others more qualified?

If that's what you enjoy, cool. I could do that...but I just go with instinct based on how I see players move. You can tell which players have it and which players don't. It's why I want Kemp, Worrell and Bergman. They pass my eye test. If I went with what everyone else says, I'd be saying Bergman is s**t.

Look at the clubs that traded out of it - Port Adelaide, Melbourne and GWS.

Both Melbourne and Port Adelaide have senior coaches that cannot afford another poor season for the sake of job security. There is no doubt they would have had some say in the opportunity to bring forward an asset which helps them win in 2020.

Jason Cripps said at the start of the year that we didn't rate next year's draft. That's why I knew we would trade our first round pick from 2020. I kept telling people that's exactly what would happen. It's got nothing to do with the senior coach and everything to do with selectively targeting certain drafts to achieve the maximum result.

GWS made the right call to move up. Essentially they are assured of getting a top 4 talent and Green versus the risk of a Green bid before 6 and a pick in the 10-18 range in 2020. As you like to say - "it's good business".

The perceived quality of the 2020 draft would have had some but little factor in those deals being instigated.

I've got no problem with GWS moving up. I don't have a problem with Adelaide moving down and getting a future first round pick either. But let's face facts - if Adelaide could go back in time, knowing what they know now, and keep 19 in the 2018 draft instead of getting a pick that will probably end up in the 20s with NGA and F/S bids in the 2020 draft...they would keep 19.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

So GWS don't have a top 10 pick developing away in their academy? That's a rarity.

GWS' 1st Round Picks
2011 1,2,3,4,5,7,9,10,11,13,14
2012 1,2,3,12,14
2013 1,2,14
2014 4,6,7,
2015 7*,13*,16* * = academy pick
======
2016 2,5*,14*,20*
2017 11,
2018 11,14
2019 4 + *Green a top 10 pick

GWS probably have 10 more years of top 10 picks, despite likely to finish top 4 or top 6 most years.

All teams need to stop trading with GWS for top ten draftees that have fallen out of their value system. Otherwise they keep trading back into the first round with players they don't want.
Dylan Shiel two first, really?

 

[Waspy79]

So many leaks must be happening for GWS to know a bid on Green was expected at pick 5. It’s quite farcical.

 

[benblinkau]

Spot on. Next years draft is looking potentially as worst ever. This has been a long held view by many in the industry. Add in the fact that many of the draftable kids aren't available to the whole pool and it is slim pickings.

From what i've seen, i'd much rather pick 16 in this years draft compared to pick 8-12 next year. People get too worked up on specific draft numbers without any idea of what the quality is that's available.

Well said. People just need to calm the * down. What we have done has been great so far.. this year and next year we finally get to compromise drafts as a club too.

Look what geelong gave up to get their draft hand this year. Tim Kelly. We have a better set of picks and gave up a guy who gets lapped on day 1 of pre-season at his new club and some list and salary cap cloggers. Port have done this nicely!


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[Pappagallo]

Well said. People just need to calm the fu** down. What we have done has been great so far.. this year and next year we finally get to compromise drafts as a club too.

Look what geelong gave up to get their draft hand this year. Tim Kelly. We have a better set of picks and gave up a guy who gets lapped on day 1 of pre-season at his new club and some list and salary cap cloggers. Port have done this nicely!


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He only got lapped because he was being weighed down by his wallet. Wouldn’t have been an issue here!

 

[benblinkau]

With the AFL attaching point values to picks, but being the AFL only going half way and not ditching picks altogether, is clubs doing these sorts of trades that stuff up everyone else. I've put up my suggestions on how to do it several times of ditching picks for clubs getting points based on ladder finish. Then can trade points from current and next year for trades. It removes the unknown of what you'll get. If we'd traded out 1000 points to Brisbane next year for instance instead of a pick swap, it wouldn't matter if we'd finish 1st or 18th, that's the price paid. There's other advantages as well, but in the main the AFL needs to bite the bullet and ditch picks for points full stop. Stuff it if it's harder to explain in 20 seconds to punters.

That just won’t happen.


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[missionpossible]

Last time we had three first round picks it worked out pretty well