Player comparison thread

[Eye of the Hawk]

You should also do Corey Enright v Brendon Goddard after Cornes as they play a similar type of role and also are roughly around same price/average range.

I think their is upside in both players specifically in Cornes as he is underpriced due to injury plaguing form and also considering PA have a really good run with the draw they play a lot of the crumby teams at the start of the season. In Enright's defence he is a consistant and also part of a very good Geelong side which he has reserved his spot as the half back runner. Geelong are great for fantasy scoring purposes as they play a high possession and highly skillful game which towels up other teams and means more points for Enright as well.

BTW would it be fair to assume that CCornes is a 40% chance of being eligible for a back position next year?

There appears to be a lot of decent mid priced Essendon forwards in Lucas, Davey and Gumbleton but do people think it is worth having all three in you fantasy team?

What do people think of these comparisons? Travis Cloke / Alwyn Davey / Higgins / Headland

 

[Schulzenfest]

I'll do the bottom one.

I'm a huge advocate for picking Higgins, and he's a lock for my team. Two or three years into their career is about the time where most people have a break-out year, he was a massive ball winner at junior level, the Dogs have more than enough small forwards which should lead to him finally moving into the midfield either taking West's spot or at the expense of Eagleton. Averaged only 47 this year due to injury this year, may even get a discount, and I personally wouldn't be surprised to see him average 80 or more. Has massive upside and will make a heap of money.

Davey I don't understand all the hype about. Has averaged the same for the last two years, and barring an unlikely midfield move I don't see any reason for him to average more. Has proven to be injury prone during his time in the AFL, and even if he gets discounted he doesn't have enough upside for me.

Not sure why Cloke's in the comparison because he's far more expensive. He's a young key forward playing in probably the most difficult position on the ground, and has had to deal with getting double teamed all year. Opposition teams will rate him higher than Rocca now, so that is likely to continue. Plus the addition of Rusling and possibly Dawes or Reid as an extra target may impact his scores a little bit. But to me he seems the type who will eventually have a break-out year and become a premium without warning. If you think it might be this year, then jump on. But after disappointing this year he's not someone I want to take the risk on, especially with someone I consider a much safer option in Adam McPhee around the same price and likely to be listed as a forward this year.

You pretty much know what you're going to get with Headland. Not including last year, during which he was severely injury affected, since being at Freo he's averaged between 72 and 78 each year, which is extreme consistency and suggests he will average somewhere around that range again. Barring injury he'll probably make a decent amount of money but won't be a keeper.

My order
1. Higgins
2. Headland
3. Cloke
4. Davey

One I want done is Paul Chapman vs. Steve Johnson, but with a twist. I know that Chappy's hamstrings are a massive worry, but I want to see which one people think will score more with the assumption that both play all 22 games.

 

[Virgil]

One I want done is Paul Chapman vs. Steve Johnson, but with a twist. I know that Chappy's hamstrings are a massive worry, but I want to see which one people think will score more with the assumption that both play all 22 games.

Fitness permitting Chapman should easily outscore Johnson, purely because he is a much better midfield option, and is capable of top end scores.

 

[Daz]

Not sure why Cloke's in the comparison because he's far more expensive. He's a young key forward playing in probably the most difficult position on the ground, and has had to deal with getting double teamed all year. Opposition teams will rate him higher than Rocca now, so that is likely to continue. Plus the addition of Rusling and possibly Dawes or Reid as an extra target may impact his scores a little bit. But to me he seems the type who will eventually have a break-out year and become a premium without warning. If you think it might be this year, then jump on. But after disappointing this year he's not someone I want to take the risk on, especially with someone I consider a much safer option in Adam McPhee around the same price and likely to be listed as a forward this year.

One I want done is Paul Chapman vs. Steve Johnson, but with a twist. I know that Chappy's hamstrings are a massive worry, but I want to see which one people think will score more with the assumption that both play all 22 games.

You're contradicting yourself a bit here. The reason Cloke 'went backwards' this year is because, like you said, he had no support from his other forwards. A fit Rocca and Rusling (very unlikely) means Cloke is allowed to do what he does best and lead up onto the wings rather than stay at home in the 50. I can see everything falling into place nicely for Travis next year. The only thing holding him back in 2007 (won the B&F remember) was his goal kicking which he fixed up this year.

 

[Daz]

Fitness permitting Chapman should easily outscore Johnson, purely because he is a much better midfield option, and is capable of top end scores.

Yep, no question Chappy is the better DT'er ignoring injury. I'll put forward another one: T.Walker vs Rusling vs Gumbleton vs M.Brown (WCE) vs Hentschel

 

[Lakey91]

Sorry, but i cant bring myself to even read the name "chapman" without yelling "INJURY" out loud. Hes a great player when fit, but on the dreamteam board Johnson wins all the way due to his lesser injury history. (sorry i know u said forget injury, but i just cant!)

 

[mitchell12345]

gram vs buckley

has anyone got a source on this so called move into the midfield by gram

 

[Eye of the Hawk]

I'll do the bottom one.

Highly insightful mate, have a nice rewarding glass of ale for me!

 

[Lakey91]

gram vs buckley

Im loving the look of gram. He now has alot of support in the backs with goddard and fisher. Some Stats on Gram:

Very durable:
2006 played 22 games
2007 played 20 games
2008 played 22 games

Seems to have plateaued in averages having averaged 78.7, 73.6 and 77.6 in the last three years, however, over the last 5 rounds of the home and away season Gram averaged 98.2! Add the finals to these scores and he averages 88.75 over the last 8 matches! But even if he averaged 80, he would still be quite easily in top 7 backs in total points scored due to his durability. At 371k, I think Gram is a great pickup!

As for buckley (368k), he hasnt played a full season yet due to only just really breaking into the team. However his end to the season was equally promising in that he averaged 105.67 over the last 3, and 90.16 over the last 6. He is a great player and the demons always try to get the ball in his hands due to his style of play. However, i think coaches will be more focussed on him this year due to the run that he provides, and also do to the lack of depth in the melbourne list that provides other players that need to be tagged - something i think dal santo/montagna/goddard/fisher mean wont be a problem for gram. Hence I think an average of around 80 should be expected - still a great return but not a significant improvement. I also feel there is still some uncertainty about buckley as he still feels new and young to me so im a bit sceptical i spose. Should be a beauty for melbourne well into the future though.

I would rather Gram, with his place in the team assured, a rumour of more midfield time, and a stellor finish to the season (though i spose Buckleys was equally as eye catching. I just think gram has been around 75 average for 3 years now and is ready to take that next step up to average 85+ as his finish to the season showed.

Also, You all know of my admiration for birchal at 379k.

 

[Eye of the Hawk]

I'm also seriously considering T.Lockyer (388K) and R.Clarke (299K) next year.

Lockyer average 94.2, 93.1 and 102.9 in from 05-07 and also 87.1 in 08, this therefore puts him in the price to be a good keeper for next year as he has plenty of scope for improvement. He is also an extremely durable player having played every single game for the last 4 seasons.

R.Clarke had a really good end to his season averaging 87.8 against teams including GEE, HAW, COL, ESS and ADE. Most of his 100 scores came from the final series as well which is a good indication that he has a good chance of starting round 1 next year. I can just see him turning into a stat rat similar to Carazzo if all goes well for him. Although R.Clarke appears to be a more SCer as his last 5 games gave him an average of 103.

What works in both these players favor are they are both highly criticised and therefore under-rated, this makes them smokies and unique.

 

[54Dogs]

R.Clarke had a really good end to his season averaging 87.8 against teams including GEE, HAW, COL, ESS and ADE. Most of his 100 scores came from the final series as well which is a good indication that he has a good chance of starting round 1 next year. I can just see him turning into a stat rat similar to Carazzo if all goes well for him. Although R.Clarke appears to be a more SCer as his last 5 games gave him an average of 103.

Just make sure you set aside a trade if you take Rafa. Has missed 44 games in 4 years.

 

[Lakey91]

Lockyer average 94.2, 93.1 and 102.9 in from 05-07 and also 87.1 in 08, this therefore puts him in the price to be a good keeper for next year as he has plenty of scope for improvement. He is also an extremely durable player having played every single game for the last 4 seasons.

Im pretty sure you have got your stats mixed up?
http://www.fanfooty.com.au/players/profile.php?firstname=Tarkyn&surname=Lockyer

Lockyer:

2000 60.2
2001 74.7
2002 71.8
2003 34.0
2004 70.2
2005 75.4
2006 78.0
2007 101.3
2008 81.3

He is very durable i will give you that (played four full seasons in a row)!

I didnt like the way lockyer played in 2008. Whenever i saw him he felt almost scared, only ever got cheap free ball, never worked hard, seemed to disappear in games, I just thought his gameplay was a bit weak - he'd wait outside the pack for someone else to get the loose ball then give it to him rather then go and find the footy himself. This meant his DT scores were significantly down. Im sure a few people would of got burnt by him last year.

I am not going to take him but thats just me. Theres plenty of juice around that price mark - lewis, boak, knights, sewell, van berlo, goodes, buckley....lots to chew through!

What works in both these players favor are they are both highly criticised and therefore under-rated, this makes them smokies and unique.

I think they may be highly criticised for a reason sometimes though!

Raphael cannot play a string of matches together. Played just 43 games in 5 seasons (1, 14, 4, 8, 8). Not on my radar with a record like that as he can often fall out of favour with the club. A player needs more than 2 hundreds in a row to make me start him.

 

[Eye of the Hawk]

Yeah probably so, just throwing up a few smokies, I knew they would get shot down LOL!

 

[Lakey91]

Can i just recommend for those who dont know, http://www.fanfooty.com.au

Its a great site compiled by m0nty and a few others and id like to recommend taking advantage of these resources and have a look at player injury history and previous performance, etc before throwing the name out here.

IMO throwing a name out there without having looked at all into the background is a bit much, and not all that good for discussion, and i think its good to look things up for yourselves and develop some DT skills - it doesnt take much to type raph clarke into the search and see he's very injury prone and thus probably not worth it.

Perhaps try and keep these threads to comparing players who are harder to split - like gram/buckley say which is a great comparison. Just seems that people come and ask about someone without having one look at them or doing any background research what-so-ever themselves - doesnt take much to scratch the surface, and leaves the discussion for more debatable variables such as different roles, different clubs, different preseason etc. Just a thought.

Overall, Outstanding posting everyone and keep it up!

 

[LemmingMaster]

I think some key decisions might be with some of these names.

Van Berlo v Boak v Gibbs v Knights v Lewis v Foley

 

[Daz]

I think some key decisions might be with some of these names.

Van Berlo v Boak v Gibbs v Knights v Lewis v Foley

Actually because EOTH put up a few names, Walker vs Rusling vs Brown vs Hentschel vs Gumby got overlooked.

 

[Schulzenfest]

You're contradicting yourself a bit here. The reason Cloke 'went backwards' this year is because, like you said, he had no support from his other forwards. A fit Rocca and Rusling (very unlikely) means Cloke is allowed to do what he does best and lead up onto the wings rather than stay at home in the 50. I can see everything falling into place nicely for Travis next year. The only thing holding him back in 2007 (won the B&F remember) was his goal kicking which he fixed up this year.

I disagree. J Brown and Franklin still get double teamed week after week despite Bradshaw and Roughead being two of the best key forwards in the comp. Nobody outside of Collingwood rates Rocca anymore so he won't affect Cloke's situation, Rusling is more likely to take the third tall types, and neither Dawes, Reid or Anthony are good enough to warrant major headaches for opposition coaches yet. Medhurst's massive improvement could also have a negative impact on Cloke. The end result of all of this is a shitload of forward line targets but only one with two players on him. I see Cloke's situation being similar to that of J. Brown's this year, when the return of Bradshaw didn't stop him getting double teamed but did give his teammates another option, and when you're getting double teamed every week another option can be more likely to get the ball than you even if you're the better player, even if you are going up to the wings as Brown did at times. JB's scores suffered as a result of Bradshaw's return, and I don't see Trav being any different. I'd be more likely to pick him next year when Rocca gives up the game like he should've done a couple of years ago and Cloke becomes the player the Maggies kick it to every time instead of half the time.

 

[Virgil]

Medhurst's massive improvement could also have a negative impact on Cloke.

That's a fair point. I think Collingwood make far better use of their medium-sized forwards than any other team, and said medium-sized forwards are also very good marking players for players of their stature, making Cloke a little less important than a CHF in some other teams' structures.

 

[Daz]

I disagree. J Brown and Franklin still get double teamed week after week despite Bradshaw and Roughead being two of the best key forwards in the comp. Nobody outside of Collingwood rates Rocca anymore so he won't affect Cloke's situation, Rusling is more likely to take the third tall types, and neither Dawes, Reid or Anthony are good enough to warrant major headaches for opposition coaches yet. Medhurst's massive improvement could also have a negative impact on Cloke. The end result of all of this is a shitload of forward line targets but only one with two players on him. I see Cloke's situation being similar to that of J. Brown's this year, when the return of Bradshaw didn't stop him getting double teamed but did give his teammates another option, and when you're getting double teamed every week another option can be more likely to get the ball than you even if you're the better player, even if you are going up to the wings as Brown did at times. JB's scores suffered as a result of Bradshaw's return, and I don't see Trav being any different. I'd be more likely to pick him next year when Rocca gives up the game like he should've done a couple of years ago and Cloke becomes the player the Maggies kick it to every time instead of half the time.

1) Not true at all, he still attracts either the best or second best defender, his presence in the forward line is huge for the Pies.

2) How did that work out for him this year when Rocca missed most of the games.

Wrt the double teaming, players only get double teamed if they stay at home in the 50. With Rocca and Rusling in the side Travis will be able to use his athleticism and fitness to rack up marks on the wing which is what he does best (DT wise and for the Pies).

 

[Cassius_Clay]

I think some key decisions might be with some of these names.

Van Berlo v Boak v Gibbs v Knights v Lewis v Foley

In terms of value:

Boak > Gibbs > Foley >>>>> The rest. None should be picked though.

 

[Cassius_Clay]

Nobody outside of Collingwood rates Rocca anymore so he won't affect Cloke's situation,

Worst / Most incorrect comment of the year?

Fact is, Cloke did shit because Rocca was out. Not because punks like Medhurst were being a target. Its was because the bigger bodies went on Cloke and double teamed him, like they did with Tarrant. It doesnt help when your midfield cant kick either.

 

[Daz]

In terms of value:

Boak > Gibbs > Foley >>>>> The rest. None should be picked though.

No love for VB? He did average about 100 from RD 8 onwards this year.

 

[Cassius_Clay]

No love for VB? He did average about 100 from RD 8 onwards this year.

Yeah, VB should be in there. Missed his name.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Worst / Most incorrect comment of the year?

Fact is, Cloke did shit because Rocca was out. Not because punks like Medhurst were being a target. Its was because the bigger bodies went on Cloke and double teamed him, like they did with Tarrant. It doesnt help when your midfield cant kick either.

If Rocca from two years ago was coming into the side, then IMO Cloke would be a great option. But Rocca now is 31, plays like he's even older, and Cloke has passed him by a long way. I can't tell the future, but if I was a coach I'd be more than willing to stick any tall body I could get my hands on against Rocca and double-team Cloke.

1) Not true at all, he still attracts either the best or second best defender, his presence in the forward line is huge for the Pies.

2) How did that work out for him this year when Rocca missed most of the games.

He did attract the best defender in the past, but I'd be surprised if he did next year. TBH I'm expecting him to have a year like David Neitz did this year. And I didn't say I'd pick him next year, I said I'd be more likely to. Although you could be right about him running up to the wings and improving his scores. Next year I see Cloke either staying at around 70-75 or taking a massive leap up to a premium depending on his role, I don't think there's much middle ground. I personally think he's more likely to do the former, but I guess it depends on whether Rocca can still make an impact, which I don't think he can.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Actually because EOTH put up a few names, Walker vs Rusling vs Brown vs Hentschel vs Gumby got overlooked.

This is the local hospital ward (apart from Walker).

They're all sit and wait prospects, all have great potential but it is a decision to be made closer to round 1. I would ONLY select a maximum of two of these options, any more and you're taking too much risk.