Ponting !

[Bomber Bears]

Was good to see him go out and pace his innings. He really played himself in, rather than trying to be agressive from the start, and seemed to put the hook and pull away to an extent. He was helped by the slower pitch I feel but was a very good knock.

Doesnt answer all the questions, because he didnt face any genuine pace, which has been a big issue of late (getting rushed), but still well batted.

Hopefully if he stays on he takes note oh how he played this knock, and also drops down the test order. Remember he got that double ton against the paki's, yet that has been just a positive blip in an otherwise long slow demise over the past 18 months or so. He really needs play himself in work on playing himself in if he is too prolong his career.

I still have huge reservations over him in test cricket, but I was very happy to see him bat so well today

 

[The Passenger]

was working and thought this game was tomorrow night so just got in and saw the scores. epic time to pull out a ton... the pressure on him is as much as any player since Mark Taylor went through that trot roughly 12 years ago.

possibly a career extender. time will tell.... but that is the tonic that he need no doubt.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Unfortunately I dont think its going to help his team win. Would be epic if they get home.

Saying that, there goes sehwag...

 

[Bucking Beads]

Well done to Punter on getting some runs, I still think he needs to retire ASAP.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Well done to Punter on getting some runs, I still think he needs to retire ASAP.

So do I. He never really looked in tonight despite toughing it out in an admirable manner.

I don't think he's going anywhere, however, I think this will have him and the mgt believing that he has turned a corner.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

RP as been a great of the game, no doubt, but IMHO in the 45 yrs I have watched test cricket, Greg Chappell is the best Aust. player I have seen, with Ponting on a par or just a little ahead of S. Waugh and Border.

The best world players I have seen would be:

Sobers
I. V. A. Richards
Tendulkar
Lara
Barry Richards

Greg Chappell was amazing. One of the things that made me want Mitchell Marsh to be a superstar was that his stance reminds me of Greg Chappell.

 

[Surkin]

Any half decent player is going to score runs eventually if they keep getting chances. Reality is his form with the bat has not been what is needed from a number 3 in either form over the past 24 months. Not to mention his captaincy is appalling.

Go out on a high Ricky, time to hang up the bat. Hopefully then you are remembered for the great batsman you were and not this shadow you have become in recent years.

 

[JimDocker]

I have always rated Ponting highly as a batsman. One of the best that I have ever seen. The reality is though, that he has been out of form for an extended period of time. This was his first century in 13 months.

His form with the bat, and as captain was terrible in The Ashes. He was due criticism, and he got it.

Great innings last night and he is due credit for that.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Great knock Ricky.
I'm not fussed if they keep him in the side or not, though (in either form) because it's time to rebuild.
If he does keep his spot, I really think he needs the captaincy like a hole in the head and I agree that he ought to drop down the order in both forms. Take as much pressure off him as we can, he doesn't need it any more. He can be a great mentor to those who come in, if he keeps his spot.
Finch is the obvious one to replace him in the ODI's and I guess Khawaja in the tests. Time to do it now.

 

[Drummond]

So do I. He never really looked in tonight despite toughing it out in an admirable manner.

I don't think he's going anywhere, however, I think this will have him and the mgt believing that he has turned a corner.

Seriously dude?

 

[Wicked Lester]

RP as been a great of the game, no doubt, but IMHO in the 45 yrs I have watched test cricket, Greg Chappell is the best Aust. player I have seen, with Ponting on a par or just a little ahead of S. Waugh and Border.

The best world players I have seen would be:

Sobers
I. V. A. Richards
Tendulkar
Lara
Barry Richards

I rate Ponting well above Waugh, above Border and on a par, or even above, Greg Chappell.

Similarly, I rate Ponting as very much the equal of some of those in the list above. Interesting that some mark him down due to his relatively poor form in the last 18 months or so of his career (though he might go on). Viv Richards, who remains universally admired, also had a dreadful last couple of years with his test average finishing barely above 50.

My primary reason for rating him as highly as I do has been his willingness to shoulder the burden of the pivotal first drop position for the majority of his career. It seems to me that too many people forget how hard it is to find a player who'll a) willingly bat at first drop and b) average over 50 in the role.

To put that in perspective, Tendulkar has never (not once) batted at 3 in a test match, Greg Chappell preferred not to, Border and Waugh couldn't get out of the role quick enough after they'd tried and failed, Kallis prefers 4 and so on.

We probably wont appreciate how good he's been until we spend ten years trying to find out next number 3.

 

[Bomber Bears]

I rate Ponting well above Waugh, above Border and on a par, or even above, Greg Chappell.

Similarly, I rate Ponting as very much the equal of some of those in the list above. Interesting that some mark him down due to his relatively poor form in the last 18 months or so of his career (though he might go on). Viv Richards, who remains universally admired, also had a dreadful last couple of years with his test average finishing barely above 50.

My primary reason for rating him as highly as I do has been his willingness to shoulder the burden of the pivotal first drop position for the majority of his career. It seems to me that too many people forget how hard it is to find a player who'll a) willingly bat at first drop and b) average over 50 in the role.

To put that in perspective, Tendulkar has never (not once) batted at 3 in a test match, Greg Chappell preferred not to, Border and Waugh couldn't get out of the role quick enough after they'd tried and failed, Kallis prefers 4 and so on.

We probably wont appreciate how good he's been until we spend ten years trying to find out next number 3.

Usman Khawaja does have class written all over him

 

[Wicked Lester]

Usman Khawaja does have class written all over him

Yes, he does, but so did any number of others over the years some of whom failed totally and other who were assumed to be capable of cutting the mustard at 3 only to be better suited to life further down the order.

I rate Khawaja highly and sincerely hope he works out at 3. If he does it would be one of those rare occasions where a new first drop seamlessly replaces the old one and both turn out to be greats. I wouldn't want to put money on it, but I do hope it works out for the young man.

 

[Wallaby]

I have always rated Ponting highly as a batsman. One of the best that I have ever seen. The reality is though, that he has been out of form for an extended period of time. This was his first century in 13 months.

His form with the bat, and as captain was terrible in The Ashes. He was due criticism, and he got it.

Great innings last night and he is due credit for that.

To use test cricket as an example:

Thats the problem. At his best, Ponting was scoring 100s (in Test Cricket) about 2 every 5 tests - an amazing rate compared with everyone except Bradman. To be a good test batsman, you need to score a century every 4 tests or so (I admit I'm plucking the figures slightly out of my arse here, but the point is valid).

For the last couple of years, Ponting's form has been so bad, he is probably scoring a century every 10 tests. Guess what? If you keep him in long enough, he will score one. It doesn't mean 'HE'S BACK!' and will immediately return to his former glory. It means, if you keep any competent batsman in the test team long enough, they will get a century - just look at the name os some of the people who have scored them over the years (Harbajan, Johnson etc - Pat Symcox has a test century!).

Ponting's form went 2 years ago. He should have been dropped before the Ashes (yes, I'm serious - his form leading up to Ashes did not warrant his selection). Did you know, he played the in the side for the whole of Marcus North's career, and while North was deemed not good enough, in the tests they played together North scored 5 centuries and Ponting scored 2. That's 2 in 21 tests.

If you check his record against all other players in the Aus team since Oct 2008 (the tour of India), Katich, Clarke, Watson, Hussey, Haddin have all had better records than Ponting - and you could argue for North - North made more hundreds, but fewer runs overall at less average. All the other players made the same number or more 100s than Ponting at a higher average.

ODIs - basically the same story.

Old age didn't creep up on Ponting - it hit him with a sledgehammer. I really believe he's gone.

 

[Wicked Lester]

Ponting's form went 2 years ago. He should have been dropped before the Ashes (yes, I'm serious - his form leading up to Ashes did not warrant his selection).

Well, except for the fact just prior to the Ashes he had an excellent tour of India, scoring 70+ in 3 innings out of 4 test innings but we wouldn't want to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

However, you do make some telling points. There is no doubt Ponting has not been the force he was in his pomp and that trend has been evident for a couple of years now. For most of that time, he tended to wax and wane, often cropping up to make critical runs at the right time before fading as the series went on. Critical also, was Ponting's role at 3. Ideally he'd have moved down the order. A mixture of his own pride and the lack of alternatives meant he stayed at 3. That was less than ideal, and something his contemporaries and predecessors generally avoided by slipping down the order.

The critical question in dealing with an all time great of the game is when to draw a line under their form and conclude that the loss of form is permanent. It's a tough thing to get right. Two years ago, you'd have sworn old man time had got the better of Tendulkar. He'd had a sustained period of underperfomance and looked all but washed up. Suddenly bang, he's one of the world's form batsmen.

Oh, and lastly, prior to the Ashes it was of course Hussey who was the great underperformrer and who it was almost universally agreed should have been 'retired' for good before the Ashes. Two tests later that prospect was unthinkable, though no doubt the dogs will soon start barking on Hussey's tenure once again.

Ponting may well be on his last legs. But it will be a momentous moment in Australian cricketing history when the curtain is finally drawn. I rate him as only behind Bradman and the equal of GS Chappell. Having watched the entire career of the latter, its not a career I'd end with undue haste.

 

[JimDocker]

Top post Wallaby - it doesn't mean somebody hates Ponting to point out that he has been out of form for a long time. No matter how good he has been.

 

[Bomber Bears]

re centuries, he's scored one in his last 20 tests. got dropped first ball then made a double that match.

Serious doubts over him in the side, but at the least he has to drop down the order.

 

[frankrizzo]

Issue on this thread is ponting supporters can't seem to separate the discussion on pontings current role and his standing overall in the game.

is he an all time great?

yes of course he is.

Should he still be batting 3 for Australia in tests?

hell no.

he gets such a hammering from critics because he flatly refused to change any part of his game to rediscover his form, he says he admires tendulkar and looks to him as a guide... well tendy is a bloke willing to do whatever it takes to make runs which if necessary means changing his game and eliminating certain shots if he considers them high risk.

Go and watch tendulkar around 2003-2004 when he was being crippled by tennis elbow, he cut many of his successful cross bat shots down and played in areas he felt were lower risk.

It was ugly at times, but unlike ponting he knows its a matter of how many runs not how big your balls are and whether you are showing the young punk fast bowlers you aren't going to back down and change your game.

Yeah ponting hasn't backed down to roach/aamer/anderson ect he kept batting 3 and hooking and pulling and he failed miserably, when you live by the sword...well you know the rest.

 

[Joe Mama]

Issue on this thread is ponting supporters can't seem to separate the discussion on pontings current role and his standing overall in the game.

is he an all time great?

yes of course he is.

Should he still be batting 3 for Australia in tests?

hell no.

he gets such a hammering from critics because he flatly refused to change any part of his game to rediscover his form, he says he admires tendulkar and looks to him as a guide... well tendy is a bloke willing to do whatever it takes to make runs which if necessary means changing his game and eliminating certain shots if he considers them high risk.

Go and watch tendulkar around 2003-2004 when he was being crippled by tennis elbow, he cut many of his successful cross bat shots down and played in areas he felt were lower risk.

It was ugly at times, but unlike ponting he knows its a matter of how many runs not how big your balls are and whether you are showing the young punk fast bowlers you aren't going to back down and change your game.

Yeah ponting hasn't backed down to roach/aamer/anderson ect he kept batting 3 and hooking and pulling and he failed miserably, when you live by the sword...well you know the rest.

Did you even watch his innings last night ?, and if you did, how many hook and pull shots did he play in order to get that 100 ? (very few).

He's well and truly put that mouse (the hook & cut shot) back in the house and played one of the most dogged innings I have seen him play (apart from his century at Old Trafford in 2005), because he went against his instincts and changed the way he batted (just like Tendulkar when he has problems with his elbow) and stood up when the likes of Clarke & White faltered.

If you've got the time, go and read when cricinfo's Brian Cloverdale wrote about Ponting, and how he compared his 100 against India to the later work of Johnny Cash, (stripped back and only containing the man and his incredible talent, not the best he's done but still better than most).

If that was the last time we see him in an ODI shirt, that's a great way to end, and I doubt that we'll find anyone 1/2 as good to replace him.

 

[frankrizzo]

A single odi innings has relevance to his last 2 years of failures batting 3 in tests?

If anything you're making my point, if ponting had tempered his attacking instics at test level(or at least dropped down the order) in an effort to restore form he would have a lot more supporters(and no doubt more runs).

He didn't for two years he stuck his head in the sand, the fact that he is occasionally capable of accepting his limitations makes his last two of test cricket more frustrating not less.

Your over the top and off base reaction to what i posted is why ponting fans are so hard to reason with, talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Well, except for the fact just prior to the Ashes he had an excellent tour of India, scoring 70+ in 3 innings out of 4 test innings but we wouldn't want to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

However, you do make some telling points. There is no doubt Ponting has not been the force he was in his pomp and that trend has been evident for a couple of years now. For most of that time, he tended to wax and wane, often cropping up to make critical runs at the right time before fading as the series went on. Critical also, was Ponting's role at 3. Ideally he'd have moved down the order. A mixture of his own pride and the lack of alternatives meant he stayed at 3. That was less than ideal, and something his contemporaries and predecessors generally avoided by slipping down the order.

The critical question in dealing with an all time great of the game is when to draw a line under their form and conclude that the loss of form is permanent. It's a tough thing to get right. Two years ago, you'd have sworn old man time had got the better of Tendulkar. He'd had a sustained period of underperfomance and looked all but washed up. Suddenly bang, he's one of the world's form batsmen.

Oh, and lastly, prior to the Ashes it was of course Hussey who was the great underperformrer and who it was almost universally agreed should have been 'retired' for good before the Ashes. Two tests later that prospect was unthinkable, though no doubt the dogs will soon start barking on Hussey's tenure once again.

Ponting may well be on his last legs. But it will be a momentous moment in Australian cricketing history when the curtain is finally drawn. I rate him as only behind Bradman and the equal of GS Chappell. Having watched the entire career of the latter, its not a career I'd end with undue haste.

In the past four years, Punter has had one year of a decent test average - 2008 where he averaged 48. 2007, 2009, 2010 all around 38/39.

Tendulkar had about 18 months of mediocrity. Overall, his career has been remarkably consistent.

As has been said, if you stick with someone they will score a ton eventually. The point is the team has a losers culture now. The only thing they have won since the getting to the final of the WorldT20 in April is the ODI series after the Ashes against England.

It was a momentous moment when Waugh retired. We've had momentous moments due to retirements and we'll have them again.

Either a change in coaching or leadership needs to happen as that might refresh them.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Did you even watch his innings last night ?, and if you did, how many hook and pull shots did he play in order to get that 100 ? (very few).

He's well and truly put that mouse (the hook & cut shot) back in the house and played one of the most dogged innings I have seen him play (apart from his century at Old Trafford in 2005), because he went against his instincts and changed the way he batted (just like Tendulkar when he has problems with his elbow) and stood up when the likes of Clarke & White faltered.

If you've got the time, go and read when cricinfo's Brian Cloverdale wrote about Ponting, and how he compared his 100 against India to the later work of Johnny Cash, (stripped back and only containing the man and his incredible talent, not the best he's done but still better than most).

If that was the last time we see him in an ODI shirt, that's a great way to end, and I doubt that we'll find anyone 1/2 as good to replace him.

I watched the innings and a very fine one it was, his concentration was grand to see. However, I can't think of a single short ball they bowled at him.

One swallow and all that...

 

[Blues_Man]

Your over the top and off base reaction to what i posted is why ponting fans are so hard to reason with, talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees.

Yes almost as hard to reason with as Ponting haters ...when there is a batsman with the ability to push him out of the side then he should go ..until then he goes on his own terms .


But i guess haters gotta hate

 

[Joe Mama]

A single odi innings has relevance to his last 2 years of failures batting 3 in tests?

Yes, I agree he should have gone down the order just like Viv Richards or Ian Botham did when they was nearing the end of their careers (all three are alike because they had great eyes, which went on them at the end, causing them to lose their power), but the fact that you don't possess the good grace to acknowledge a great innings under tremendous duress, shows that your bile towards Ponting is that great you can't give credit when it's due.

If only our next captain had 1/2 of the ticker that he showed last night, then we wouldn't be looking so bad for the future

If anything you're making my point, if ponting had tempered his attacking instics at test level(or at least dropped down the order) in an effort to restore form he would have a lot more supporters(and no doubt more runs).

It's a natural thing to for an athlete to try and play in the same style that has given them success, even when recent results show otherwise, because they want to do what works, and it takes a lot of time for them to realize that, because champions are proud people.

And regardless of all the haters and keyboard champions out there, Ponting will be regarded only behind Chappell (a man who also had a terrible run with form late in his career), and Bradman as one of our greatest batsmen

He didn't for two years he stuck his head in the sand, the fact that he is occasionally capable of accepting his limitations makes his last two of test cricket more frustrating not less.

Now, that is just a load of BS, to say that he stuck his head in the sand is just ludicrous, he worked bloody hard to get things right with his game, it's just that unlike Tendulkar. Ponting took longer to get it right and how he reacted to that Smith incident against Canada showed how much he had taken our bad run of form to heart, and how he felt solely responsible for it, and after all that, with everyone baying for his blood, for him to do what he did last night when his team needed him to was inspirational, regardless of how many heroes out there want to deny it.

Your over the top and off base reaction to what i posted is why ponting fans are so hard to reason with, talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees.

And what I can't stand about haters like you is your complete refusal to enjoy and congratulate the efforts of a fine innings from one of our finest players, because your bitterness is so profound that you cannot at least accept that this was one of Ponting's greatest knocks

But as they say, Haters gonna Hate!.

 

[crownie]

would be sad to see him leave test cricket without some form behind him. having said that he hould quit now if he is not prepared to change his attitude for the sake of th team which would mean moving down the order.