Ponting's fall from stratospheric heights

[Hoops]

Good thread. Would read again.

This makes for good reading aswell

http://www.cricinfo.com/decadereview2009/content/current/story/443957.html

Player of the decade and deservedly so

 

[HBF]

Really gutsy innings from Ponting today. Scratched his way to 50, then between 50-100, it was the Ponting we all know. Treating the bowlers with little repect, dispatching them all over the ground.

 

[Heisenberg_]

This makes for good reading aswell

http://www.cricinfo.com/decadereview2009/content/current/story/443957.html

Player of the decade and deservedly so

Player of the decade without a doubt, the idea of him not being comparable to Lara and Tendulkar is absolutely laughable and shows a lack of knowledge of the game, or just pure idiocy.
They will all go down as champions of the game, but personally if I had to pick 1 player to stand up when it counts the most for the team, I would take Ricky Ponting every single time, he is the ultimate big game batsmen over the last 10-15 years.

 

[Sealz]

Using stats to prove a point but then disregard Haydens stats because of some fallacy that when he played the opposition was weak.

I also love nostalgia and was very sceptical of Hayden early on but eventually the weight of numbers tells the story.

Of all the Australians with 10 100's or more he is 2nd behind Bradman in strike rate for 100's per test match.

Im not sure what more had to do.

3rd - Most Hundred for Australia.
2nd - strike rate of 100's per innings for Australia in Australia.
3rd - strike rate of 100s per innings for Australia in all countries.
4th - most runs for Australia.
1st - highest Test score for Australia.
7th - highest average for Australia.

14th - all time test runs
2nd - highest individual test score
7th - all time test hundreds
3rd - (of the 31 players with 20 100's or more all time) 3rd behind Bradman and Ponting for 100s per innings in all countries. Sobers is 4th.

Of course all these stats are meaningless but only for Hayden.

Its OK not to like a player but geez. Slater and Anwar FFS.

Impressive... especially as Hayden was opening the Innings...

but arhhh... wasnt this thread about how shit Punter is

 

[Cousin Jed]

Was way ahead of you

 

[skipper kelly]

Impressive... especially as Hayden was opening the Innings...

but arhhh... wasnt this thread about how shit Punter is

Sorry bout that.

 

[DaRick]

Ponting nearly succumbed to the pull again, but he and Clarke have really turned their fortunes around. Excellent stuff. They've turned what could've been a tricky position into a dominant one.

Just when I thought that his batting was becoming a liability, he does what the greats do.

 

[skipper kelly]

Career

Ponting 54.79
Tendulkar 54.72
Lara 52.88

It seems that they can be compared and maybe Blues Man is correct.

update

Ponting 55.51
Tendulkar 54.72
Lara 52.88

 

[Rosstickle]

Punter has averaged a tick above 40 for the past three seasons.

That's not really good enough. Can you tell me nobody else could have averaged better? That's not a statistical aberration, that's three seasons. Hussey averaged 38-odd over two seasons and the calls to drop were deafening.

Since when is an average of 40 bad full stop! It is probably the "pass mark" of a good Test batsman in general terms. There's exceptions though.

A list of players who average(d) in the low 40's (below 43/44)

Amla, Dhoni (40.23), Mark Waugh (41.81), De Villiers (43.40), Sourav Ganguly (42.17), Ian Chappell (42.42), Herschelle Gibbs (41.95), Collingwood (43.07), Chris Gayle (40.61) and Sarwan (42.32).

There's heaps of guys in there and most would be considered very good players.


209 Today

#1 run scorer of the 00's.
#2 run scorer of the 10's so far.

 

[Blues_Man]

ppppffft only 209 ...threw away the chance to go on with it ..he's too old to play big innings ...he needs to be dropped ..definitely a liability to the side .

 

[Caesar]

ppppffft only 209 ...threw away the chance to go on with it ..he's too old to play big innings ...he needs to be dropped ..definitely a liability to the side .

Has anyone in this thread said any of those things?

He's a great player who is still playing fine for Test cricket. Nonetheless he's declined pretty severely in recent years. One innings, as good as it was, doesn't change that.

 

[Sman-21]

knew he still had the ability
just didnt think he had the hunger/concentration lately.

great to see lets hope he has it back for good not just coz it was his "home" match

 

[fairdinkum]

Is it true that he was dropped on zero going for his hook shot again?

Great batsman, one of the all-time greats, but let's not pretend that, were the Pakistanis able to field as well as your local park cricket 1st XI, Punter wouldn't be batting to sure up his position as captain in the second innings.

 

[Groggyk]

So people are now comparing the opposition to a Park XI?

Come now, let's not be silly.

 

[fairdinkum]

So people are now comparing the opposition to a Park XI?

Come now, let's not be silly.

Uh, bro, I got caught out to the same shot by a fielder in the same position as Aamer was in the other Saturday -- and the bloke who caught me was a park cricketer.

So, yeah, I would say that my earlier insinuation -- that the Pakistanis have fielded worse than a park cricket 1st XI -- is more than valid.

Professional players should not drop those catches. These guys get paid to play FFS.

 

[DoubleO7]

So people are now comparing the opposition to a Park XI?

Come now, let's not be silly.

What part of this do you find silly? Pakistan's fielding is actually that poor. Did you miss Aamer's drop catch?

were the Pakistanis able to field as well as your local park cricket 1st XI

 

[Sman-21]

ok so since pakistan are so hopeless does that mean we can take say 10 runs off tendulkars avg as he prob plays them and sri lanka alot.

 

[Blues_Man]

Uh, bro, I got caught out to the same shot by a fielder in the same position as Aamer was in the other Saturday -- and the bloke who caught me was a park cricketer.

So, yeah, I would say that my earlier insinuation -- that the Pakistanis have fielded worse than a park cricket 1st XI -- is more than valid.

Professional players should not drop those catches. These guys get paid to play FFS.

Yes nobody ever in the history of cricket should ever have dropped a catch ...and nobody ever in the history of footy should ever miss a goal from ten metres out ..or ever drop an easy mark ...you see where i'm going here ..how silly and ignorant your post appears ?

You really do need a reality check .

 

[Groggyk]

Uh, bro, I got caught out to the same shot by a fielder in the same position as Aamer was in the other Saturday -- and the bloke who caught me was a park cricketer.

So, yeah, I would say that my earlier insinuation -- that the Pakistanis have fielded worse than a park cricket 1st XI -- is more than valid.

Professional players should not drop those catches. These guys get paid to play FFS.

Ok, calm down dude, I agree. Pakistan are no better than a "Park 11".

 

[fairdinkum]

Ok, calm down dude, I agree. Pakistan are no better than a "Park 11".

Sigh.

 

[The Octopus]

95% of players can be very accurately judged by their records (Averages) Almost 100% when they have played lots of cricket. Punter has few peers as a batsman.

 

[Wally Carter]

Hilarious thread.

Just hilarious.

 

[blackhead&boil]

there has been a lot of discussion about whether your bes bt should go in at 3, and if batting away from 3 means you can't be your team's best batsman.

I think there are lots of ways of approaching a good test batting line up, but I think you sould generally have your most versatile and consistent batsman at 3 and your most fluent scorer at 4. sometimes a very good batsman might be particularly advanced in terms of aggression and he will be better off at 4, while a less effective batsman might be more of a number 3 type.

in the top 3 you will want guys who are going to score a high prcentage of innings above the 3 run mark. if they score at a slowish rate or get themselves out at between 80 and 120 a lot then that's not to bad, as long as they are consistently taking the heat out of the ball/bowlers. going on with it is a bonus, but if they incline towards this profile then they are better up the top than in the middle.

4-5 is where you want players who can really take toll on the weaker bowling. you want guys who can score fast and make big scores.

hussey is a funny one, because he seems to be a top 3 type player. I think australia use him down the order as an insurance policy. he is there to rescue the side in case of a bit of a collapse. his experience as an opening batsman as well as a middle order bat means he will be comfortable against the 2nd new ball as well as being able to bat well with the tail.

as for ponting, he could have been a fantastic batsman anywhere from 3-6, but he is most valuable to the side as a very good number 3. his average probably would have been higher at 4 or 5, but his contributions won't have been as influential.

one of the greats, for sure...

 

[blackhead&boil]

just to add, in comparison to guys like lara and tendulkar, there may be some reasons to view ponting's average as being inflated due to the opposition he faced, but there are counter arguments against the other two.

tendulkar played a lot of cricket on low bouncing subcontinent pitches. the low bounce particularly favours the shorter batsman and with his wristy style he thrived. from memory, his record at home was much more impressive then his record abroad.

brian lara was a great batsman but not much value as a cricketer. apart from some character weaknesses, he tended to get either massive scores or small scores. he frequently failed when put under pressure and wasa classic flat track bully. another extremmely important aspect of lara's career is that he frequently batted on for personal glory and often batted his sid eout of a win. I saw a stat once that showed the WI had a very low win rate from matches in which he scored a 100.

I think the fact that ponting just became the player to play in most winning test matches says a lot about his place in history...

 

[Wally Carter]

just to add, in comparison to guys like lara and tendulkar, there may be some reasons to view ponting's average as being inflated due to the opposition he faced, but there are counter arguments against the other two.

tendulkar played a lot of cricket on low bouncing subcontinent pitches. the low bounce particularly favours the shorter batsman and with his wristy style he thrived. from memory, his record at home was much more impressive then his record abroad.

Tendulkar has scored almost 1,000 runs more compared to Ponting due to playing more often against cricketing minnows Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Take this out of calculations and his average drops another 2 or 3 runs.

Ponting is better than both of them (Tendulkar and Lara), no decent cricket judge could come up with any other conclusion.