Port Adelaide - Can They Hack It In The Big Time League?

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

Serious answer requested by the OP, so this is my serious reply:

Firstly, you will note that most of the replies here by Port members have been in the form of dismissive banter. Reason being, we have grown to live with fact that the AFL is really just a re-badged VFL, with the non-Vic clubs tolerated and 'allowed' to participate. It is the reality, although you Vic folk will deny it. So we are used to the fact that you lot know diddlysquat about our club. You know very little about the massive battle we have had to enter the competition, and indeed to remain in it. We find most Victorians to be not really interested in any club outside Victoria, so "why bother?"

Well here goes ...From the start, the Power were owned by the SANFL, which bled the club dry while claiming credit for then bailing it out when cash-strapped, while every leg-up was given to the AFC, the bastard-child of the SANFL. During that time the SANFL in their blind hatred of Port forced the club to play as two separate entities, Port Adelaide Magpies and the 'Port Power,' separate from each other. To this day these tossers refuse to refer to us as the Port Adelaide Power, for fear of linking the two teams. Slowly this created an identity crisis among the supporter base, and to this day there are still many Magpie fans that support other AFL clubs, and many Power fans that dont support the Magpies. This was a football equivalent of genocide, as they strove to destroy the original Port Adelaide Magpies, leaving a crippled and weak Port Power that have no links to the club and its history. This is not just rhetoric, this is factual

Added to that Port had to play at that concrete graveyard, Football Park, the home ground of our mortal enemy the AFC, further disenfranchising supporters, resulting in declining crowds & memberships. What dwindling income there was, disappeared into SANFL pockets, as the club spiralled further down.

So we enter the Hinkley/Adelaide Oval phase of our life, and what has changed?
1] Ownership was handed to the AFL. An improvement, but we now have the ownership debt to repay, and they now control the board and pull the strings.
2] Fans and supporters began to flood back as the two clubs were reunited into ONE Port Adelaide, and a new home ground that had no Crows links was unveiled.
3] Big name sponsors have slowly started to knock on the door as the club has shown itself to be not just the equal of the Crows, but in fact, far superior!

So all is good? No, we are still hobbled by the AFL ownership issue which wont go away until we own our own club. But more significantly, despite our good crowds at Adelaide Oval, we are at the mercy of the SANFL though the stadium deal at the Adelaide Oval. I wont go into the details here, but basically North Melbourne probably make more money from 20,000 people at a home match than we do from 50,000.

Despite these financial limitations, the club has chosen to continue to INVEST in our football department, knowing that if we just cut costs to survive, we will never be a competitive force, and can never grow.

The future of this club is great, and will only get better. The investment has resulted in on-field improvement, players want play there, quality companies want be partners & sponsors, and the supporters continue to gaining strength & voice.

The ship wont turn around overnight, but it is well on the way. The Crows, their handlers, & supporters are seriously worried, and to the rest of the competition, all I can say is, "lookout, Port Adelaide is coming!"

Thank you for the time and effort. Informative and useful.post.

 

[SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay]

Excellent, thank you. It was intended to find which people thought was the least worst option, and I got the answer to it because it was asked in good faith.

Righto. Thousands wouldn't. But I'll believe you.

You need to disabuse yourself of this Tassie thing.

Moving there does not worry me in the slightest.

I'm actually far more excited about us being a full time Melbourne club again very soon.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You need to disabuse yourself of this Tassie thing.

Moving there does not worry me in the slightest.

Making a completely unnecessary reference to Tasmania in the OP suggests otherwise. If you were merely inquiring why Port are in debt and whether this is to be expected long into the future, you wouldn't have needed to mention Tasmania, and yet you did.

I'm actually far more excited about us being a full time Melbourne club again very soon.

I have no doubt that when North are expelled from Hobart, they'll be looking for another town to sell games to, perhaps Bendigo or Albury. But unlike you, I'm not going to suggest that means it's step one of a relocation.

 

[fortunatecrow]

Pretty funny to see a thread so directly critical of the Powa - and barely any Crows posters can be bothered posting. Troll rating: fail

 

[sobrave]

Pretty funny to see a thread so directly critical of the Powa - and barely any Crows posters can be bothered posting. Troll rating: fail

It's hard to take potshots when you're holding a spoon.

Although it didn't stop the norf troll, even though they barely missed the spoon and and were so bad they forced the coach into chronic depression.

 

[Kwality]

The other thing that is perhaps worth noting is that Port's statutory profits over the last couple of years have been supported by repeatedly revaluing their assets (land, buildings and memorabilia) to the tune of $5M+. In 2018 that was $4.2M (after a post-depreciation loss of $1M), in 2019 $1.2M (after a post-depreciation loss of $700K). So their property, plan and equipment which was worth $13M in 2017 is now worth $18M.

Similar stunts (legal) used across the AFL clubs. Few of the clubs actually own land.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

SBTDOTB taking no prisoners again, time to clean house Gill.

On a serious note, I wasn’t aware they were in such a position - odd for a two team heartland state.

Surely Adelaide has the population to support two teams. Is the issue that they chose such a polarising club (in S.A). My Grandfather played for West Torrens, and he was never one to hold a grudge about anything, except that no one should support ‘dirty ports’.

seriously asking from someone outside the SA bubble.

 

[TheKITC]

Obvious troll OP aside, I'm not sure many are asking the right questions here. I'm not a financial expert by any stretch, but what is the nature of their debt is probably a better question to ask.

We absolutely cannot overlook the toll that COVID had on almost all businesses. They 'lost' $4m last year which they say is considerably better than forecast. Whilst it isn't great, interest rates are extremely low right now so it could be a lot worse.

People need to try to understand that not all debt is bad, sometimes it's quite the opposite. I'm not that up on Port off field stuff, but have they invested in revenue streams outside of football that they see as long term wins? Have they just bought land and/or plan to build world class facilities? Are they investing in ways to make the club better and closer with the community?

The simple view of 'debt = bad, Port need to fold' is so inane it's crazy. I'm not saying they are in a good place because I clearly don't know, but people should really consider how things actually work and might be before passing off grand statements as gopel.

 

[Kwality]

SBTDOTB taking no prisoners again, time to clean house Gill.

On a serious note, I wasn’t aware they were in such a position - odd for a two team heartland state.

Surely Adelaide has the population to support two teams. Is the issue that they chose such a polarising club (in S.A). My Grandfather played for West Torrens, and he was never one to hold a grudge about anything, except that no one should support ‘dirty ports’.

seriously asking from someone outside the SA bubble.

Exacerbated by Adelaide being first in, bit like Freo in WA. I spent 2 seasons there a long time ago but its real.
As an aside I had the then President of Norwood ask me to do a favour for Ports coach of the day. The personal rapport between the guys was strong as was their competitive juices.

Have no fear Port will pull themselves out of this.

 

[Kwality]

Obvious troll OP aside, I'm not sure many are asking the right questions here. I'm not a financial expert by any stretch, but what is the nature of their debt is probably a better question to ask.

We absolutely cannot overlook the toll that COVID had on almost all businesses. They 'lost' $4m last year which they say is considerably better than forecast. Whilst it isn't great, interest rates are extremely low right now so it could be a lot worse.

People need to try to understand that not all debt is bad, sometimes it's quite the opposite. I'm not that up on Port off field stuff, but have they invested in revenue streams outside of football that they see as long term wins? Have they just bought land and/or plan to build world class facilities? Are they investing in ways to make the club better and closer with the community?

The simple view of 'debt = bad, Port need to fold' is so inane it's crazy. I'm not saying they are in a good place because I clearly don't know, but people should really consider how things actually work and might be before passing off grand statements as gopel.

No one quoting the Financials.

 

[big boy jackavoy]

Obvious troll OP aside, I'm not sure many are asking the right questions here. I'm not a financial expert by any stretch, but what is the nature of their debt is probably a better question to ask.

We absolutely cannot overlook the toll that COVID had on almost all businesses. They 'lost' $4m last year which they say is considerably better than forecast. Whilst it isn't great, interest rates are extremely low right now so it could be a lot worse.

People need to try to understand that not all debt is bad, sometimes it's quite the opposite. I'm not that up on Port off field stuff, but have they invested in revenue streams outside of football that they see as long term wins? Have they just bought land and/or plan to build world class facilities? Are they investing in ways to make the club better and closer with the community?

The simple view of 'debt = bad, Port need to fold' is so inane it's crazy. I'm not saying they are in a good place because I clearly don't know, but people should really consider how things actually work and might be before passing off grand statements as gopel.

The short answer is previous debt from the AMMI stadium days, some poor financial choices and COVID which blew it up.

 

[backtozero]

Up until a few seasons ago the power had no offical connection to the sanfl club it wasn’t just like they jumped from sanfl to the afl it was a new club that carried there history from the sanfl over

It's annoying when people are so confident of things that they know nothing about.

When Port Adelaide entered the AFL, it took with it it's Chairman, CEO and senior coach. Wanganeen was appointed captain having played the entirety of his juniors at Port and the administration and training base remained at Alberton.

Yes the nickname and guernsey changed but claiming it was a whole new start up with no connection is completely wrong.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

I won’t take the troll bait but in my view, Kochie and by extension the board are taking a “build it and they will come” approach to their financial budgets.
They spent a lot on China (don’t give me the fake news that it paid for itself. Open your eyes. It didn’t). They have some of the highest profile assistant coaches and Hinkley would be one of the highest paid head coaches. They spend a heap on media and advertising. Their ticket and membership prices are rock bottom. Everything’s designed for volume at the expense of margin.

 

[Kwality]

It's annoying when people are so confident of things that they know nothing about.

When Port Adelaide entered the AFL, it took with it it's Chairman, CEO and senior coach. Wanganeen was appointed captain having played the entirety of his juniors at Port and the administration and training base remained at Alberton.

Yes the nickname and guernsey changed but claiming it was a whole new start up with no connection is completely wrong.

Wanganeen won a (1990) SANFL flag with Port before the Bombers lured him ($s) to Melbourne.i

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

Would you honestly think that terminating a club like Port, with a support membership base of 40000-60000, is a great outcome for Australian Rules football?
At another level, the Australian government has gone into significant deficit with CV19.
They see resilience.
They see low interest rates on borrowings.
Above all, they saw a necessity to do so.

Going into deficit is not necessarily a bad thing if it is stimulatory for future growth.

 

[Kwality]

Would you honestly think that terminating a club like Port, with a support membership base of 40000-60000, is a great outcome for Australian Rules football?
At another level, the Australian government has gone into significant deficit with CV19.
They see resilience.
They see low interest rates on borrowings.
Above all, they saw a necessity to do so.

Going into deficit is not necessarily a bad thing if it is stimulatory for future growth.

The short answer is previous debt from the AMMI stadium days, some poor financial choices and COVID which blew it up.

Begs the question how long things have getting worse year on year over say 5 years 2014-19 excluding the 2020 Covid effect.
... Too hard?

Port are here to stay.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

It's annoying when people are so confident of things that they know nothing about.

When Port Adelaide entered the AFL, it took with it it's Chairman, CEO and senior coach. Wanganeen was appointed captain having played the entirety of his juniors at Port and the administration and training base remained at Alberton.

Yes the nickname and guernsey changed but claiming it was a whole new start up with no connection is completely wrong.

My point was the two clubs were operated independently

 

[BruceTempany14]

Port are the only team in the comp that's not a VFL side or a "start up".

The Port Adelaide football club is one of the giants of our code.

It's place in the game is not in question.

What is in question is whether a team that doesn't have the solid foundation of decades in the VFL, or has been set up purely for the AFL, can work.

And more pertinently, can South Australia support two teams.

Looks to me like it can't.

Not a start up ? Est 1996 .


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Tibbs]

SBTDOTB taking no prisoners again, time to clean house Gill.

On a serious note, I wasn’t aware they were in such a position - odd for a two team heartland state.

Surely Adelaide has the population to support two teams. Is the issue that they chose such a polarising club (in S.A). My Grandfather played for West Torrens, and he was never one to hold a grudge about anything, except that no one should support ‘dirty ports’.

seriously asking from someone outside the SA bubble.

After investing heavily in the footy dept to bring it up to AFL par, Port were just starting to repay debt when Covid hit. Just bear in mind too, that the loss is not all what it seems. In reality it should only be in the $1mill plus mark ... go back & read REH's explanation.

Adelaide can support two teams. But up until now Port have had to battle on so many fronts for an equal share....
1] Crows were first in, so had all the big sponsors jump on board, and had the supporters of every other SA club jump on as fans.
2] In this Two-team city, and with such a polarising club like Port, local sponsors backed away. National sponsors have sat back and waited.
3] The stadium deal is better than the old Footy Park days, but Ports share of takings is still way lower than other clubs ... This still needs to improve
4] Port have a constant battle with the custodians of the state game, the SANFL, while the Crows are the SANFL's love child. They are the incarnation of all the other SA clubs, bar Port, and for years have bathed in government, corporate, community & SANFL support. And as Jim Prideaux said above, all the while Port have been hated by the rest of SA. They arent more "dirty" that any other club. They are just tough, hard, and for over 100 years they have been winners.

Losers hate winners!

 

[The Burger King]

Not a start up ? Est 1996 .


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We had an AFL licence in 1994 and copyrighted the Power logo in 1995.

 

[Tibbs]

I won’t take the troll bait but in my view, Kochie and by extension the board are taking a “build it and they will come” approach to their financial budgets.
They spent a lot on China (don’t give me the fake news that it paid for itself. Open your eyes. It didn’t). ....

Please, just ping off with this Crowesian Crap!

The game is underwritten by Gui, our Chinese Billionaire benefactor, and we have numerous specific sponsors and financial supporters of the Chinese game, including Government & the AFL! Even still, the accounts for the China venture are kept separate & are public. The last year of playing a match there we made a profit. The added spin is that from our connections though it we have gained a Major Chinese sponsor in MG

So just go crawl back into your hole with your fake news BS!

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Please, just ping off with this Crowesian Crap!

The game is underwritten by Gui, our Chinese Billionaire benefactor, and we have numerous specific sponsors and financial supporters of the Chinese game, including Government & the AFL! Even still, the accounts for the China venture are kept separate & are public. The last year of playing a match there we made a profit. The added spin is that from our connections though it we have gained a Major Chinese sponsor in MG

So just go crawl back into your hole with your fake news BS!

Sure it is mate. The other 17 clubs don’t need a fancy Chinese game to get a sponsor so you can’t bring in that revenue to justify the waste. Show me these public accounts please.

 

[Tibbs]

Not a start up ? Est 1996 .


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

LOL. I just dare a tosser like you to go up to one of the Port Adelaide legends like Russell Ebert et-al, and tell them the club they love only started in 1996 after they had finished playing. The legal establishment of the Power team to satisfy the SANFL pricks means nothing to a Port supporter

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

After investing heavily in the footy dept to bring it up to AFL par, Port were just starting to repay debt when Covid hit. Just bear in mind too, that the loss is not all what it seems. In reality it should only be in the $1mill plus mark ... go back & read REH's explanation.

Adelaide can support two teams. But up until now Port have had to battle on so many fronts for an equal share....
1] Crows were first in, so had all the big sponsors jump on board, and had the supporters of every other SA club jump on as fans.
2] In this Two-team city, and with such a polarising club like Port, local sponsors backed away. National sponsors have sat back and waited.
3] The stadium deal is better than the old Footy Park days, but Ports share of takings is still way lower than other clubs ... This still needs to improve
4] Port have a constant battle with the custodians of the state game, the SANFL, while the Crows are the SANFL's love child. They are the incarnation of all the other SA clubs, bar Port, and for years have bathed in government, corporate, community & SANFL support. And as Jim Prideaux said above, all the while Port have been hated by the rest of SA. They arent more "dirty" that any other club. They are just tough, hard, and for over 100 years they have been winners.

Losers hate winners!

You weren’t paying debt and the timing issue REH is talking about doesn’t hit the P&L. It just shifts dollars from an unearned income provision to debt.

 

[Tibbs]

Sure it is mate. The other 17 clubs don’t need a fancy Chinese game to get a sponsor so you can’t bring in that revenue to justify the waste. Show me these public accounts please.

Oh good on you. Unfortunately we are not in your first-out-the-gate position after the SA Clubs stopped our AFL bid in the early nineties, then hastily threw your abomination together as the Crows as the first SA club.

Thats OK, we have worked our own way, and if that involved the China venture, and if it benefits the club, which it has ... Then thats great. We dont give a rat's ass what you think!

You weren’t paying debt and the timing issue REH is talking about doesn’t hit the P&L. It just shifts dollars from an unearned income provision to debt.

LOL, go argue that with him ... see who wins!