Priority Picks fair?

[Portia]

Originally posted by JeffDunne
What good would reducing the cap be if your playing list are prepared to take pay cuts?

If the club are paying everyone 20% over the cap for a couple of seasons, these same players are probably prepared to receive 20% less while the penalties are in place.

Yeah, you have a point. Simple solution: the AFL also puts a lock on contracts with the offending club being renegotiated for a season.

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by JeffDunne
What good would reducing the cap be if your playing list are prepared to take pay cuts?

If the club are paying everyone 20% over the cap for a couple of seasons, these same players are probably prepared to receive 20% less while the penalties are in place.

Deduct 40 points before/during the season and see what they say about it. Players want to win flags, this would stop it from happening.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Deej
No way, should never interfere with what should be an individual's choice of which company he chooses to further his career with.

How does removal of draft choices effect an individuals choice? They start with none and keep all of it in tact. Your issue is with the draft not sanctions therein.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Cause you are a bunch of cheats. Dont blame the system blame your incompetent Administration and the Pres you all fawned over for 20 years.

Love seeing you cry over Goddard. And guess what, apparently he loves being in a winning team with all his mates. Why would he want to go to a club that underperforms and doesn't work as hard as the Saints? Only wants to get results by cheating and taking short cuts.

Again adding nothing but "stupidity" to a thread.

 

[JeffDunne]

Originally posted by Deej
Deduct 40 points before/during the season and see what they say about it. Players want to win flags, this would stop it from happening.

I have a problem with deducting points, especially for an upcoming season. If the breaches are found during a season I don't think you have much choice but to dock a team points. (Completely unrelated but the same should be true for players testing positive to performance enhancing drugs). If you dock points for an upcoming season, why would you not play your reserves all year since the result will be irrelevant? Good oppertunity to get playing time into your list, don't risk long term injuries to your players and clean up at the bookies.

I think putting teams on the park without any incentive to win is counter-productive.

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by MarkT
How does removal of draft choices effect an individuals choice? They start with none and keep all of it in tact. Your issue is with the draft not sanctions therein.

If Nick Stevens wants to get to Collingwood, he should be allowed to get to Collingwood (provided any contracts signed fit within collingwood's salary cap).

 

[SurreyBlue]

Gentleman, the issue is that "teams" will play "dead" just to receive "priority pick". That is the issue we are discussing.

My fixes to the current system would be;

1. Get rid of the priority picks.
2. keep the draft in current format, ie. last team = first pick etc,.
3. Take the salary cap minimum payment away. Paying 92% or whatever is ridiculous.
4. Ensure all teams are on a same salary cap. All interstate teams have been helped enough now.
5. Allow ALL teams to enter into a "open market" trade through a zoning area, eg. Cooney to Adelaide or Riewoldt to Brisbane. This to be done prior to the national draft where they can recruit whoever wants to go, but reduce the number of choices to 1 or 2.

This is fair to all and sundry me thinks.

 

[JeffDunne]

SurreyBlue, I actually agree with you on all but point 5.

The AFL is too full of self interest for the zones to be determined fairly. Essendon would probably end up with the 60% of Victoria, NT and Tassie!

Also, the other clubs would be less willing to spend money (and less willing to support the commision) in developng grass roots football in states north of the murray.

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by SurreyBlue
Gentleman, the issue is that "teams" will play "dead" just to receive "priority pick". That is the issue we are discussing.

My fixes to the current system would be;

1. Get rid of the priority picks.
2. keep the draft in current format, ie. last team = first pick etc,.
3. Take the salary cap minimum payment away. Paying 92% or whatever is ridiculous.
4. Ensure all teams are on a same salary cap. All interstate teams have been helped enough now.
5. Allow ALL teams to enter into a "open market" trade through a zoning area, eg. Cooney to Adelaide or Riewoldt to Brisbane. This to be done prior to the national draft where they can recruit whoever wants to go, but reduce the number of choices to 1 or 2.

This is fair to all and sundry me thinks.

Nope on principle i want at least the opportunity to be told by Riewoldt to rack off.

 

[JeffDunne]

Originally posted by Deej
Nope on principle i want at least the opportunity to be told by Riewoldt to rack off.

Give him a call I'm sure he'll oblige

 

[SurreyBlue]

Originally posted by Deej
Nope on principle i want at least the opportunity to be told by Riewoldt to rack off.

Deej, I wouldn't have zoning either, but I have a feeling the communists at AFL house wouldn't have it any other way. Anyway, you could use the zone to your advantage if both parties agreed and identified an individual early.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Deej
If Nick Stevens wants to get to Collingwood, he should be allowed to get to Collingwood (provided any contracts signed fit within collingwood's salary cap).

I just don't see what that has do with draft penalties for cap cheating though which is what I thought you were commenting on in response to my post. regardless though, the only wat Stevens could hav got to Collingwood was for Collingwood to wait until his contract expired and then just sign him. When the AFL refuse to register him the court tells them they have to obey the law like everyone else. That's the only way it can be done. Obviously the ramifications are pretty huge.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by JeffDunne
Give him a call I'm sure he'll oblige

You reckon he'll ask how much first though?

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by SurreyBlue
the communists at AFL house wouldn't have it any other way.

Yeah I agree, and this is what it all comes down to. They want everyone to have a go at winning and if they can't manufacture it using this system they will change the rules even more to get it to happen another way. Reward mediocrity with handouts until they become good (ala saints and freo), prevent the more successful clubs from getting the best young talent (ala lions and bombers), almost a commie bloody blueprint!

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by MarkT
I just don't see what that has do with draft penalties for cap cheating though which is what I thought you were commenting on in response to my post. regardless though, the only wat Stevens could hav got to Collingwood was for Collingwood to wait until his contract expired and then just sign him. When the AFL refuse to register him the court tells them they have to obey the law like everyone else. That's the only way it can be done. Obviously the ramifications are pretty huge.

Even though my club would've directly been the loser, my principles say that i think Eddie should've done it.

 

[JeffDunne]

Originally posted by Deej
Yeah I agree, and this is what it all comes down to. They want everyone to have a go at winning and if they can't manufacture it using this system they will change the rules even more to get it to happen another way. Reward mediocrity with handouts until they become good (ala saints and freo), prevent the more successful clubs from getting the best young talent (ala lions and bombers), almost a commie bloody blueprint!

There you go again Deej, just when you start forming a constructive arguement, you jump back to the same "handouts"/guarantee success crap.

The Carlton conspiracies have hit you hard. Maybe you should look at therapy? There's definately demons lurking there . .

 

[MarkT]

Eddie wouldn’t have the Balls. Elliot was probably the only one that would have done it.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Originally posted by Deej
Even though my club would've directly been the loser, my principles say that i think Eddie should've done it.

Unless the AFL have an "open market" in some way, shape or form, this will be done sooner rather than later, of that I have no doubt. This is also the reason me thinks Demetriou has surrounded himself with a solicitor.

 

[JeffDunne]

Deej, can I ask how the Lions became succesful?

The same system you claim is holding them back from talent is the very same system that they worked under to achieve their success.

Bit hypocritical.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by JeffDunne
Deej, can I ask how the Lions became succesful?

The same system you claim is holding them back from talent is the very same system that they worked under to achieve their success.

Bit hypocritical.

Firstly how do you figure that and secondly isn't that exactly what Deej has been saying? The draft and cap pull you up and bring you down. Re Brisbane though a few other factors have been involved including a merger or take over depending on your point of view.

 

[Deej]

I have another theory about the draft/cap system, i think it will produce superteams that go on dynasties. The cycle isn't necessarily one flag each 16 years, it is more like 4 flags each 64 years, and I think it will literally take Brisbane decades to get another team together like the one they have now due to the laws of probability (1 in 100-odd players are superstars). Essendon should've won 1999 and probably 2001 were it not for bad luck, the sort of luck that has run Brissy's way from 2001-2003. StKilda will win multiple flags if they can tweak their list in the right way. I think every 3 or 4 years we'll be seeing a club go through a season like Essendon did in 2000 and Carlton did in 1995. Saints might even do it this year. Media will be ridiculously spruiking best-team-ever every second GF edition paper.

 

[JeffDunne]

Originally posted by MarkT
Firstly how do you figure that and secondly isn't that exactly what Deej has been saying? The draft and cap pull you up and bring you down. Re Brisbane though a few other factors have been involved including a merger or take over depending on your point of view.

My comment was in relation to this statement :

Originally posted by Deej
. . . prevent the more successful clubs from getting the best young talent (ala lions and bombers), almost a commie bloody blueprint!

I don't think the Lions have a problem with the draft and salary cap. If they do they at least keep it to themselves.

Yeah, I agree a few other factors have been invloved in their success. Good administration, great list management, fantastic coach, etc. . .

The Lions (and a couple of other clubs) have managed to sustain relative onfield success for a number of years in the present system. They as much disprove the myth the current system rewards mediocity as Deej would claim the Saints prove it.

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by JeffDunne
My comment was in relation to this statement :



I don't think the Lions have a problem with the draft and salary cap. If they do they at least keep it to themselves.

Yeah, I agree a few other factors have been invloved in their success. Good administration, great list management, fantastic coach, etc. . .

The Lions (and a couple of other clubs) have managed to sustain relative onfield success for a number of years in the present system. They as much disprove the myth the current system rewards mediocity as Deej would claim the Saints prove it.

Once you get a brilliant young list together that is capable of winning flags, all you need to do is fine tune it for a few years and cruise, but make no mistake the inability to get the best kids will eventually catch up with them in a big way.

 

[JeffDunne]

Originally posted by Deej
Once you get a brilliant young list together that is capable of winning flags, all you need to do is fine tune it for a few years and cruise, but make no mistake the inability to get the best kids will eventually catch up with them in a big way.

The Lions have made a choice to keep players and not trade for early picks. Not a difficult choice when you are going for four on the trot I know.

But when they have traded, they've done well. The hallmark of a good team. If they don't win this year, I'm sure they'll tade into the higher part of the draft. They might not have a lot of youth, but they have some quality. There is no reason they have to drop off in a big way if they manage their list properly.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Originally posted by Deej
Once you get a brilliant young list together that is capable of winning flags, all you need to do is fine tune it for a few years and cruise, but make no mistake the inability to get the best kids will eventually catch up with them in a big way.

True.