Public vs Private School funding

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Preceded by literacy, numeracy and analytical ability.
My experience was that you were taught which analysis would maximise your marks, pity the poor maker who had to read hundreds of version of the same essay on symbolism in Fly Away Peter or metaphors in Death of a Salesman the year I did matric.
 

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My experience was that you were taught which analysis would maximise your marks, pity the poor maker who had to read hundreds of version of the same essay on symbolism in Fly Away Peter or metaphors in Death of a Salesman the year I did matric.
When was that last sat ? I was thinking more of English Expression (Clear Thinking, Essay structure), and Geography than English Lit but even suggested or model answers contribute to learning analysis.
 
So why are public schools just as good as private schools?

More diverse students.

No spoon feeding, children learn to overcome obstacles themselves.

More tolerance for those with differences, no snobbiness ingrained.

Money saved on private school fees can give kids more opportunities in extracurricular activities or pay up front for uni fees or house deposit.

Won’t have to worry about buying your kid the newest clothes/electronics to fit in with their peers.

By 2nd year uni public school leaver’s scores overtake private school leavers.
 
More diverse students.

No spoon feeding, children learn to overcome obstacles themselves.

More tolerance for those with differences, no snobbiness ingrained.

Money saved on private school fees can give kids more opportunities in extracurricular activities or pay up front for uni fees or house deposit.

Won’t have to worry about buying your kid the newest clothes/electronics to fit in with their peers.

By 2nd year uni public school leaver’s scores overtake private school leavers.
Your second point comes across as trying to sell being under resourced as a feature, not a bug.

Other points about diversity are ideological, imo. The points about money are fair.

The last thing you said. Where does all this data come from? I’ve asked the question because I’ve spent some time googling the issue, and all I can find is borderline click-baity articles about how private school is a waste of money because of NAPLAN. The statistic you cite at a glance seems to be the type of carefully selected one to generate this type of content.

What are the stats for dropout rate, TER, SACE completion, (edit: university attendance), student satisfaction/enjoyment, crime on school grounds, etc when we compare public vs private? I honestly can’t find data more recent than 2000, which has private schools kicking arse on basically all measures.
 
Your second point comes across as trying to sell being under resourced as a feature, not a bug.

Other points about diversity are ideological, imo. The points about money are fair.

The last thing you said. Where does all this data come from? I’ve asked the question because I’ve spent some time googling the issue, and all I can find is borderline click-baity articles about how private school is a waste of money because of NAPLAN. The statistic you cite at a glance seems to be the type of carefully selected one to generate this type of content.

What are the stats for dropout rate, TER, SACE completion, student satisfaction/enjoyment, crime on school grounds, etc when we compare public vs private? I honestly can’t find data more recent than 2000, which has private schools kicking arse on basically all measures.

Now that you mention it, there is plenty of evidence of private schools covering up crimes - sexual abuse, drugs, counterfeit money etc.
 
So why are public schools just as good as private schools?
Because everyone can go to a public school. If you see education (at least up to secondary) as a right, then the government should do all it can to have the public system compete with the private, especially on staff. If private schools are performing better, then maybe the government can move some funding away, and back to the public system.
 
Other points about diversity are ideological, imo. The points about money are fair.
Being exposed to diversity at a young age means you're less likely to fear it as an adult. Although I guess fearing diversity is an ideology and political strategy for some.
 
Your second point comes across as trying to sell being under resourced as a feature, not a bug.

It’s not about public schools being under resourced, it’s that private schools spoon feed students to pass exams and score high marks. Everything is handed to them on a platter, and that breeds laziness once they hit the real world. The public system sets students up for the real world much better
Other points about diversity are ideological, imo.

Whatever but interacting with diverse groups will put them in much greater stead than those who think anyone of value has a daddy pay for their Range Rover and Swiss skiing holiday.
The last thing you said. Where does all this data come from? I’ve asked the question because I’ve spent some time googling the issue, and all I can find is borderline click-baity articles about how private school is a waste of money because of NAPLAN. The statistic you cite at a glance seems to be the type of carefully selected one to generate this type of content.

Public school students achieve higher university grades than private school students despite the latter achieving higher university entrance scores.


I put this down to “I didn’t sent you to St Snobby’s for 12 years for you to do a trade, you’re off to do Commerce/Law” and that student then not really applying themselves at uni.

Plus uni not putting any pressure on the private kid as well so they drift towards the pub instead of the library.

What are the stats for…….TER

The most useless stat in existence. Has no bearing on your life beyond your desire to attend University the next year. If you don’t get into the course you want then apply later as a mature age student of transfer in.

Since applying to uni straight after school I have never needed nor been asked for my TER and have forgotten it completely. Utterly useless
 
I put this down to “I didn’t sent you to St Snobby’s for 12 years for you to do a trade, you’re off to do Commerce/Law” and that student then not really applying themselves at uni.
You can put it down to that if you like. How do we know it’s not a case of private schools getting the best results for their students and gaining entry into university, where they may have dropped out at a public school where there wasn’t the positive peer pressure? Maybe this particular statistic favours public schools because high dropout rates takes their less gifted students out of the equation.

This is why I want all the data, and not just the stuff that is cultivated for the contrarian/opinionated reader. I wish the author of your article had provided sources.
The most useless stat in existence. Has no bearing on your life beyond your desire to attend University the next year. If you don’t get into the course you want then apply later as a mature age student of transfer in.

Since applying to uni straight after school I have never needed nor been asked for my TER and have forgotten it completely. Utterly useless
Utterly useless? It got you into uni…

If this is “utterly useless” I never want to hear about NAPLAN in the public/private debate ever again…
 

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It’s not about public schools being under resourced, it’s that private schools spoon feed students to pass exams and score high marks. Everything is handed to them on a platter, and that breeds laziness once they hit the real world. The public system sets students up for the real world much better


Whatever but interacting with diverse groups will put them in much greater stead than those who think anyone of value has a daddy pay for their Range Rover and Swiss skiing holiday.


Public school students achieve higher university grades than private school students despite the latter achieving higher university entrance scores.


I put this down to “I didn’t sent you to St Snobby’s for 12 years for you to do a trade, you’re off to do Commerce/Law” and that student then not really applying themselves at uni.

Plus uni not putting any pressure on the private kid as well so they drift towards the pub instead of the library.



The most useless stat in existence. Has no bearing on your life beyond your desire to attend University the next year. If you don’t get into the course you want then apply later as a mature age student of transfer in.

Since applying to uni straight after school I have never needed nor been asked for my TER and have forgotten it completely. Utterly useless

I'm assuming you went to a public school? I went private, I have nothing to compare to obviously but not sure how true this is. Maybe there's more resource at a private school to help students but you still have to do the work of course, and everyone does the same exams.

I may nearly prove your point of course, I didn't apply myself at uni, ****ed around, nearly got kicked out but got on track and got my degree. I think there are a few reasons for this, not sure how high on the list being privately educated was though.
 
Most years, up to 60 % of the VCE year from APS Schools score in the top 20 % in the State, the top 30 % get 95 plus. Many parents who can afford it consider it worthwhile forking out up to $30,000.00 per year in fees for that alone.
Then they fall behind in Uni because they have been spoon fed by teachers. Not to mention the managing out of underperforming kids and expelling trouble makers.

It's artificial. Marketing tactics.
 
It’s not about public schools being under resourced, it’s that private schools spoon feed students to pass exams and score high marks. Everything is handed to them on a platter, and that breeds laziness once they hit the real world. The public system sets students up for the real world much better


Whatever but interacting with diverse groups will put them in much greater stead than those who think anyone of value has a daddy pay for their Range Rover and Swiss skiing holiday.


Public school students achieve higher university grades than private school students despite the latter achieving higher university entrance scores.


I put this down to “I didn’t sent you to St Snobby’s for 12 years for you to do a trade, you’re off to do Commerce/Law” and that student then not really applying themselves at uni.

Plus uni not putting any pressure on the private kid as well so they drift towards the pub instead of the library.



The most useless stat in existence. Has no bearing on your life beyond your desire to attend University the next year. If you don’t get into the course you want then apply later as a mature age student of transfer in.

Since applying to uni straight after school I have never needed nor been asked for my TER and have forgotten it completely. Utterly useless
If your child was to get a scholarship to attend a private school for absolutely free would you still decide not to send them there?
 
How do you know that, though? Where’s Gethelred when you need him!?

Why is this a drawback?
In that article posted by Schneebly11 earlier it said:

"Six studies have analysed the impact of school sector attendance on first-year university grades in the past 10 years and all found that students from public schools achieved higher grades than students from Catholic and independent schools.... disadvantage in first-year university is due to private schools artificially boosting university entrance scores by intensive coaching to improve access to university. These students do not appear to do as well at university because they have to work more independently."
 
How do you know that, though?
Science!

Quick Google for related stuff - I read the Uni results one a few years ago. When I am at my desktop I will have another search.


 
If your child was to get a scholarship to attend a private school for absolutely free would you still decide not to send them there?
I earn enough that I could probably send (some imaginary) kids to a reasonable private school, though not the top ones. I'd probably still go public even if there was a scholarship on offer. I'd have to look into the school though, it might be a reasonable one, and see who my kid would be around, wouldn't want them to just hang around with a bunch of entitled rich kids. Would also have to factor in how they'd be treated if they were the odd one out i.e. not as wealthy.
 
I put this down to “I didn’t sent you to St Snobby’s for 12 years for you to do a trade, you’re off to do Commerce/Law” and that student then not really applying themselves at uni.
It's a good point, re: parental influence. The person I mentioned who openly said their private schooling made them feel entitled had a Dad who owned some wealth management consultancy, and they went on to do literally Law/Commerce I think, last I heard was working for a federal Coalition Senator. But then another friend had a Dad who owned an electrician business, Mum who was a teacher, he went to one of the top private schools as well (think his Mum may have been a teacher there at some point), but then given the family background, studied teaching at uni and did most of an electrician's apprenticeship. Pretty down to earth guy. So family influence will play a significant role in whether private schooling might corrupt a kid into some entitlement/superiority complex.
 
I earn enough that I could probably send (some imaginary) kids to a reasonable private school, though not the top ones. I'd probably still go public even if there was a scholarship on offer. I'd have to look into the school though, it might be a reasonable one, and see who my kid would be around, wouldn't want them to just hang around with a bunch of entitled rich kids. Would also have to factor in how they'd be treated if they were the odd one out i.e. not as wealthy.
Of course each specific school is different, but I think a lot here are eating way too much into generalizations of 'rich snobby kids' like it's an American TV show. Most kids really don't give a s**t how much your family makes. I mean as long as you have an Xbox to play games with them, they don't care if you are coming to school in a Range Rover, a second hand van or catch the bus. Of course there will be some dumbasses, but there will be some at public schools as well.
 
Of course each specific school is different, but I think a lot here are eating way too much into generalizations of 'rich snobby kids' like it's an American TV show. Most kids really don't give a s**t how much your family makes. I mean as long as you have an Xbox to play games with them, they don't care if you are coming to school in a Range Rover, a second hand van or catch the bus. Of course there will be some dumbasses, but there will be some at public schools as well.
A significant proportion of parents aren’t “wealthy”, they struggle with the fees and go without.
 

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