Quick question about tanking

[bodazoka]

I think Butane summed it up perfectly, if you are at the bottom of the ladder for 6yrs, then clearly you are by nature a tanker....I mean the majority of us have in some form bottomed out, but didn't stick around long enough to have a permanent label placed upon us....Carltank oops Carlton did

6 years is an abnormally long time to be at the bottom of the ladder, AFL average is 2.

 

[IluvHarvey]

I never thought Carlton tanked. They were crap and couldn't win a game. You don't have to not win on purpose when you can't win at all.

And before Carlton fans jump down my throat. I admit we were exactly the same in the late 90's and early 00's

 

[The Fireman]

Carlton didn't care how obvious it was that they were tanking, I suppose being found out as cheats who would care about a little tanking, their supporters and cheer squad even cheered opposition goals, Carlton's blatant tanking should have forced the AFL into changing the system.

 

[bodazoka]

Why is it that Carlton are the ONLY team in the AFL who are ever referred to as ever tanked ??? How about the WCE last year ??? They sent A LOT of senior players for early surgery, which is fair enough, but when Carlton did the same they were Tanking ......... And how about Port ??? From the GF to 13th, their coach admitted that they were "playing kids" and doing "list management" yet they didn't tank ???


Common people, if the whole footy community label Carlton as tankers then why are they the ONLY ones considering that other clubs do EXACTLY THE SAME THING ..................

You wont see the Eagles remain on the bottom of the ladder next year with under 4 wins so they can get a priority pick. There in lies the difference.

 

[Thrawn]

You wont see the Eagles remain on the bottom of the ladder next year with under 4 wins so they can get a priority pick. There in lies the difference.

Do you have a time machine now? How the hell can you know?

 

[Power King]

when port or west coast tank, it's not for half a decade, nor is it to build an entire team from scratch. we become competitive the next season.

 

[SteeleAt11]

Yep, and it's the same with every other team that has been shit in the same time period. Tanking is a whole load of crap, and is often confused with list management.

List management is tanking!!! don't kid yourself.. if a club rests players they would normally play (if a chance at finals) to have operations then the bottom line is they are lessening their chances of winning.. ie: tanking!

 

[Grimreepah]

Why is it that Carlton are the ONLY team in the AFL who are ever referred to as ever tanked ???

They aren't. It's just that Carlton is the best example of tanking because they did it for longer and were less subtle about it.

 

[Wolfmother2]

Carlton didn't tank for six years they were crap... They tanked in 2007 to get the priority pick which secured them Judd. They did this by losing ten games in a row after winning 4 with half a season to go. If Melbourne had of thrown the rd 22 game like carlton did we would of have NicNat this year but we didn't know we would win less than 4 this year.

Carlton were in some winning positions in those games but took there foot off the petal so that is why they are accussed of tanking. If Melbourne have the same season as last year we won't have tanked because we are sh^t but if we improve then start throwing games to avoid winning five we will be tankers

 

[Dagless]

List management is tanking!!! don't kid yourself.. if a club rests players they would normally play (if a chance at finals) to have operations then the bottom line is they are lessening their chances of winning.. ie: tanking!

ie everyone has tanked then...

 

[bodazoka]

I agree, besides if you asked Fev to tank he'd arrive at training in his scuba gear (with a toy dildo attached)

Fev trains??

 

[jonoman89]

mostly because after Ratten was caretaker coach, he would prove himself for most of the game (so he would get a contract), then throw it away so that they did not win the game and subsequently move off the bottom.

That is quite different to list management

I think you'll find throughout the entire 2007 season we had a lot of trouble hanging on to leads. Our 4th quarters were appalling. We didn't tank, we were just shit. Playing kids, and preparing older bodies for the next season =/= tanking.

Any coach which plays older players with naggling injuries with no hope of reaching finals would be incompetant. Ditto a coach who doesn't give his young kids a chance to prove themselves when the team was in a position like ours in 2007.

Saying we tanked is actually flatterring. We weren't good enough to tank - we just lost everything.

 

[bodazoka]

List management is tanking!!! don't kid yourself.. if a club rests players they would normally play (if a chance at finals) to have operations then the bottom line is they are lessening their chances of winning.. ie: tanking!

We sent Kerr in for finger surgery before the final against Collingwood in 07.. the one we lost in extra time im sure you remember. Is that tanking? He had the same injury that Cornes did and was able to play.

 

[Thrawn]

List management is tanking!!! don't kid yourself.. if a club rests players they would normally play (if a chance at finals) to have operations then the bottom line is they are lessening their chances of winning.. ie: tanking!

No, it isn't. Tanking is going out there to deliberately lose matches. You can still try out new players, or players in other positions while still trying to play to win. When finals are beyond teams, they will tend to rest players up and try out their kids in preparation for next year. In the end, tanking really requires the actual players to decide on throwing the match. You could argue that list selection and experimenting around a little with the list is a form of tanking, but you have to prove that there is actual intent to lose matches. Why can't teams prepare for next year, trying out a few things here and there? Does it mean they want to lose, or does it mean they want to prepare for next year because this year the finals cannot be made?

List management =/= tanking. They are two different things - one of the main differences being the actual intent to lose.

 

[Thrawn]

Carlton were in some winning positions in those games but took there foot off the petal so that is why they are accussed of tanking.

Because it has to be tanking, and not any other reason, eh?

I laughed when you stated "foot off the petal" - as if we were good enough anyway! Additionally, I would not count a goal or two in front in the 2nd or 3rd quarters "winning positions". In fact, I'd like to see you note the games that we were in actual winning positions.

 

[estibador]

I just think Carltank has a nicer ring to it than WestTank or PortTank....

I always found it quite amusing last year when that Glen Jakovich advert for west coast tanks came on during the game while the eagles were busy yet again rolling over without a yelp.

Now that's some fitting product placement.

 

[SteeleAt11]

We sent Kerr in for finger surgery before the final against Collingwood in 07.. the one we lost in extra time im sure you remember. Is that tanking? He had the same injury that Cornes did and was able to play.

Well obviously that was not resting a player for an operation that could have otherwise been playing and therefore outside the definition I gave

 

[SteeleAt11]

No, it isn't. Tanking is going out there to deliberately lose matches.

Like the Kreuzer cup, understood.. but when you don't play a player you normally would if more was on the line you are deliberately lessening your chances of winning that game

And for the record I know no player goes out to lose a game.. but the coaches and selectors do!

 

[Papa G]

The Answer is Priority picks - Priority picks make a huge difference to your drafting. Finishing 15th as opposed to 13th does not.

 

[Cruddy]

Because you won 3 wooden spoons in 5 years and one particular effort against Melbourne (Kreuzer cup) was so atrocious and blatant you should have been stripped of draft picks again

Not being too picky but it was well known Colliwobbles paid Buckley under the table and giving him a Maccas Franchise as well. Maybe Colliwobbles should be stripped of points and draft picks. Like Carlton was and then see if you can still rise to the top.

 

[Shinboner Schem]

6 years tanking will do it

Plus they had their way with the cap for years, so they are cheats anyways

Other clubs generally got up after 1-2-3 yrs.. but 6? lol and losing that game to melbourne?

i still hold that the biggest effort in tanking in a single game was the pies v north in that game ... my god, so so dodgy. 4 goals up and blew it in T.O..

which one was that? where Thomo pulled himself off ...the ground?

year, round?

 

[year of the cat]

Isn't it great when you can claim the high moral ground!!!

You are ALL a pack of tanking cheats...All of you....

 

[coryne]

when port or west coast tank, it's not for half a decade, nor is it to build an entire team from scratch. we become competitive the next season.

So you admit that after 2002 Carlton basically hads to build a team from scratch again, considering it just finished 16th for the first time EVER, players retired, we were out of the first 2 rd's of the next 2 drafts ................ yet we must have tanked in 2002 ................ We must have tanked in 2003 when we came 15th (were we REALLY expected to improve after 2002 ???)

How long would have a "reasonable" time at the bottom of the ladder after the drama's of 2002 been ???

 

[B-Bomber]

This is my take on the matter.

Carlton start to lose, bad. Their supporters, still arrogant after sustained periods of success and strength can't stomach the idea that their team is that bad. A few Carlton supporters, begin to say "Nah mate, we're not that bad but just you wait... look at the priority picks we're gonna get! We'll be whooping your ass in no time!"

However, this backfires. The non-Carlton supporting majority sees into this attitude that has begun to be displayed by some (not all) Carlton supporters and thinks "This aint on, we've got to turn this around!" And voila, Tanking is born, as we know it today. It's dispicible, it's cheap and it's dirty. Plain cheating. This is because the vast majority remember the arrogant attitudes of their Blue supporting counter-parts and don't wish to allow them any easy "out" to their suffering down the bottom.

Of course, some of the coincidences that occured when Carlton was down and out down the bottom of the ladder didn't help the cause of the other Carlton supporters who insist that they really are just that bad and losing a large amount of high draft picks is the actual cause to their decline.

Either way, it was lose/lose as admitting your team is pathetic or admitting that your team is Tanking are both difficult to stomach.

 

[Animosity1989]

Because Carlton are the only side that has had 3 number 1 picks in a row. That is simply unheard of.