Preview R16: Changes v Carlton

[Vader]

A couple of things Mackay is playing wing at the moment and Lyons as an inside mid.

Lyons played a great game on the weekend and the club had him fronting the media. He is a better inside mid than Mackay. There is no way they would replace him in the middle with Mackay.

That brings it back to whether they reinstate Seedsman to the position he was playing prior to being injured and that's the wing.

So our 2 wingman are Mackay and Atkins, which one is more likely to be replaced?

Seedsman will either play as a defender, unlikely, replace Mackay or play SANFL, which I think is likely.

When this happens I hope you don't try and use it to claim it was a choice between Lyons and Mackay because that's in your imagination.

As for Lyons starting on the bench, that's where inside mids who aren't starting on the ground are named.

So can you stop posting rubbish?

They just go back to the structure they had in place before Seedsman got injured. It was only 2 weeks ago that we added an extra inside mid (Brouch), it's just as easy to drop the extra inside mid (Lyons).

Lyons is the better inside mid, but Mackay offers more due to his ability to play both inside and outside. Mackay's form last week was at least as good as Lyons', it's just that BigFooty collectively hates him and for some bizarre and inexplicable reason seems to love Lyons. I can only assume it's shinytoyitis, though Lyons has long since ceased being a shiny new toy in my eyes.

At the end of the day it's probably a moot point. The club's media release indicates that Seedsman will probably be playing in the SANFL this week, so they don't have to make a tough decision about dropping Lyons (again).

 

[Crow Envy]

They just go back to the structure they had in place before Seedsman got injured. It was only 2 weeks ago that we added an extra inside mid (Brouch), it's just as easy to drop the extra inside mid (Lyons).

Lyons is the better inside mid, but Mackay offers more due to his ability to play both inside and outside. Mackay's form last week was at least as good as Lyons', it's just that BigFooty collectively hates him and for some bizarre and inexplicable reason seems to love Lyons. I can only assume it's shinytoyitis, though Lyons has long since ceased being a shiny new toy in my eyes.

At the end of the day it's probably a moot point. The club's media release indicates that Seedsman will probably be playing in the SANFL this week, so they don't have to make a tough decision about dropping Lyons (again).

You need to stop living in fantasy land.

Mackay was no where as good as Lyons last week. Lyons who played as an inside mid beat him for meters gained and was the leading player in that category. A stat an outside mid should have excelled in.

We drop Lyons to give Mackay inside mid time and the team is weakened.

The changes we made when Crouch came back was to have Douglas play more up forward. That inside outside mid role for Mackay no longer exists.

I don't care what you call the appreciation of Lyons on this board, because what this board has shown is they can identify talent. He's been given a chance denied to him in previous years and he is performing very well. That's 1 for the Big Footy board and 0 for selectors and you.

 

[TAFKATMS]

some bizarre and inexplicable reason seems to love Lyons. I can only assume it's shinytoyitis, though Lyons has long since ceased being a shiny new toy in my eyes.

Oh my.

 

[Vader]

You need to stop living in fantasy land.

Mackay was no where as good as Lyons last week. Lyons who played as an inside mid beat him for meters gained and was the leading player in that category. A stat an outside mid should have excelled in.

We drop Lyons to give Mackay inside mid time and the team is weakened.

The changes we made when Crouch came back was to have Douglas play more up forward. That inside outside mid role for Mackay no longer exists.

I don't care what you call the appreciation of Lyons on this board, because what this board has shown is they can identify talent. He's been given a chance denied to him in previous years and he is performing very well. That's 1 for the Big Footy board and 0 for selectors and you.

Dropping Lyons gives us more flexibility on the outside. We have more than enough inside ball winners to cover his absence.

I'm not sure how you can argue that the inside/outside role for Mackay no longer exists. Which part no longer exists? The inside, or the outside? The outside clearly still exists, as it's the whole basis for your argument. The inside also exists, given that he had the equal 4th most clearances of all Adelaide players last weekend, with 4 clearances - only 1 less than Lyons.

Dropping Lyons would give us a better team balance than we have right now. We lose very little on the inside, with Mackay and Douglas being more than able to pick up any slack there. We gain on the outside, where Lyons is less effective.

Lyons is one of the more overrated players on Adelaide's list. He's passable, serviceable, not particularly good, nor particularly bad. Even with 6 full games under his belt he's still existing on the fringe of the team, which is where/what he's always been. Note that "overrated" is referring to BigFooty, not me, nor the selectors. I certainly wouldn't be claiming a victory for BigFooty at this stage.

 

[Scorpus]

Lyons has played 10 of 14 games this season

 

[TAFKATMS]

Lyons has played 10 of 14 games this season

Shiny toyitis

 

[Jeffcrowe]

They just go back to the structure they had in place before Seedsman got injured. It was only 2 weeks ago that we added an extra inside mid (Brouch), it's just as easy to drop the extra inside mid (Lyons).

Lyons is the better inside mid, but Mackay offers more due to his ability to play both inside and outside. Mackay's form last week was at least as good as Lyons', it's just that BigFooty collectively hates him and for some bizarre and inexplicable reason seems to love Lyons. I can only assume it's shinytoyitis, though Lyons has long since ceased being a shiny new toy in my eyes.

At the end of the day it's probably a moot point. The club's media release indicates that Seedsman will probably be playing in the SANFL this week, so they don't have to make a tough decision about dropping Lyons (again).

Agree that Mackay was ok to good in the second half , average in first half

Meanwhile Lyons had a 4 qtr performance and was in our top 5 players

 

[Jbudds]

You need to stop living in fantasy land.

Mackay was no where as good as Lyons last week. Lyons who played as an inside mid beat him for meters gained and was the leading player in that category. A stat an outside mid should have excelled in.

We drop Lyons to give Mackay inside mid time and the team is weakened.

The changes we made when Crouch came back was to have Douglas play more up forward. That inside outside mid role for Mackay no longer exists.

I don't care what you call the appreciation of Lyons on this board, because what this board has shown is they can identify talent. He's been given a chance denied to him in previous years and he is performing very well. That's 1 for the Big Footy board and 0 for selectors and you.

I really think that Douglas has added something up forward as well. Even more options.

 

[Crow Envy]

Dropping Lyons gives us more flexibility on the outside. We have more than enough inside ball winners to cover his absence.

I'm not sure how you can argue that the inside/outside role for Mackay no longer exists. Which part no longer exists? The inside, or the outside? The outside clearly still exists, as it's the whole basis for your argument. The inside also exists, given that he had the equal 4th most clearances of all Adelaide players last weekend, with 4 clearances - only 1 less than Lyons.

Dropping Lyons would give us a better team balance than we have right now. We lose very little on the inside, with Mackay and Douglas being more than able to pick up any slack there. We gain on the outside, where Lyons is less effective.

Lyons is one of the more overrated players on Adelaide's list. He's passable, serviceable, not particularly good, nor particularly bad. Even with 6 full games under his belt he's still existing on the fringe of the team, which is where/what he's always been. Note that "overrated" is referring to BigFooty, not me, nor the selectors. I certainly wouldn't be claiming a victory for BigFooty at this stage.

The whole basis for your argument for being on the fringe is your opinion though.

Of course the outside role exists, that's what our wingers are for. Not sure of your point, unless its that despite predominately in the middle, Lyons gained more metres than Mackay.

He has played 6 games in a row. He's named on the interchange bench which also features Atkins and McGovern. Are they on the fringe?

Lyons has averaged more contested possessions and clearances than Mackay, he is clearly the better inside mid.

You want to change the structure of our midfield which has been performing very well just to give Mackay a game?

And your opinion on who is overrated means nothing. Zilch.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Dropping Lyons gives us more flexibility on the outside. We have more than enough inside ball winners to cover his absence.

I'm not sure how you can argue that the inside/outside role for Mackay no longer exists. Which part no longer exists? The inside, or the outside? The outside clearly still exists, as it's the whole basis for your argument. The inside also exists, given that he had the equal 4th most clearances of all Adelaide players last weekend, with 4 clearances - only 1 less than Lyons.

Dropping Lyons would give us a better team balance than we have right now. We lose very little on the inside, with Mackay and Douglas being more than able to pick up any slack there. We gain on the outside, where Lyons is less effective.

Lyons is one of the more overrated players on Adelaide's list. He's passable, serviceable, not particularly good, nor particularly bad. Even with 6 full games under his belt he's still existing on the fringe of the team, which is where/what he's always been. Note that "overrated" is referring to BigFooty, not me, nor the selectors. I certainly wouldn't be claiming a victory for BigFooty at this stage.

You really need to watch Lyons more closely , what you're accusing the Mackay haters of you are doing the exact same with Lyons ... He was better than Matt , Brad, Thommo and just behind Sloane on the day

Mackay has been playing good second half football the last 3 games and struggling in first halfs. You're right that some posters are over top negative with him just as your being with Lyons

 

[Crow Envy]

Lyons has played 10 of 14 games this season

How many games did we drop when he didn't play?

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

You don't think that it's abundantly clear that one of those players will be playing in the SANFL this week? Are you actually delusional enough to suggest that both of them will be playing in the AFL, against Carlton?

So if Hendo is in, does that make him 23rd best on the list?

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

How many games did we drop when he didn't play?

Hawthorn, round 5 is Lyons only loss for the year.

 

[1970crow]

Difference is that your hypothetical is completely unrealistic, in that Milera is not in line for selection and won't be playing this week.

As I see it, we have 3 players vying for 2 positions in the team. Seed, Kelly, and Lyons. Only 2 of them can play. I doubt they would have named Kelly if he wasn't playing, as a direct replacement for Brown. So that leaves 2 players and 1 position. Seed vs Lyons.

Earlier you asked me whether Lyons selection this week would force me to consider him as best 22. Your assumption was that Mackay would be the player dropped. Mackay has been named on the field, and it's clearly a choice between Lyons and Seedsman - as I previously suggested it would be.

It's not ridiculous, Milera has been named in the 25, so he's just as likely as Seed to be in the 22. In fact there's no mention of Milera and SANFL action, whereas there's a club statement stating that Seed has been cleared for SANFL duties. It's you throwing out hypotheticals based on 2 changes which is unlikely. Above your basically stating it as fact that there are 2 changes. I'm just asking you to consider a hypothetical with 3 changes, what's the problem Vader, it's just a hypothetical, like yours.

Now, I've made no assumptions at all. I wasn't asking you to identify Lyons as best 22, you'd already determined that the 22 selected this week, injury permitting, would be it. I've flat out stated that your best 22 drive for this week is bogus, I even went on to state that I doubt Lyons would be best 22 if Thommo was performing and Crouch wasn't 3 games in.

Your hypothetical is as bogus as mine. Lyons will not be dropped this week. There is no way the club will address your perceived inside/outside mix whilst Dougie has struggled, Thommo is borderline and B Crouch only just returning. If Seed was to come in, which he won't, it'll be at the expense of Mackay. But it won't be this week and that's why your initial assertion that this round is your holy grail best 22 is rubbish.

 

[1970crow]

Actually Vader , perhaps they will be prepared to drop a performing inside mid to beef up the outside crew and rely on Thommo and Dougie stepping up against a poor side. Can probably take the punt against Carlton, but doubt we'd do it if we were a chance of getting rolled.

 

[fabs33]

Lyons is the better inside mid, but Mackay offers more due to his ability to play both inside and outside. Mackay's form last week was at least as good as Lyons', it's just that BigFooty collectively hates him and for some bizarre and inexplicable reason seems to love Lyons. I can only assume it's shinytoyitis, though Lyons has long since ceased being a shiny new toy in my eyes.

Lyons is one of the more overrated players on Adelaide's list. He's passable, serviceable, not particularly good, nor particularly bad. Even with 6 full games under his belt he's still existing on the fringe of the team, which is where/what he's always been. Note that "overrated" is referring to BigFooty, not me, nor the selectors. I certainly wouldn't be claiming a victory for BigFooty at this stage.

What's with all this self-righteousness? You look down upon the rest of us like you're some kind of bastion of selection wisdom when in truth you're often the last person to see the obvious coming, just like you were the last to see the demise of Reilly and VB approaching. This isn't to say you're wrong in this particular instance but we could do without the condescension.

 

[Pugsley]

My shiny toys go alright.

 

[1970crow]

You really need to watch Lyons more closely , what you're accusing the Mackay haters of you are doing the exact same with Lyons ... He was better than Matt , Brad, Thommo and just behind Sloane on the day

Mackay has been playing good second half football the last 3 games and struggling in first halfs. You're right that some posters are over top negative with him just as your being with Lyons

Don't say that to Vader about Thommo. He's still convinced that Thommo is our best inside mid by the length of the Flemington straight. It takes him a little while to catch on. When you have a close look at his mask, you'll realise that the spot that identifies where his eyes are is actually solid. He can't see a thing. His entire football knowledge is boiled down to historical selection. If it happened last week, last year, last month, then it simply must continue to happen.

 

[Vader]

Lyons has played 10 of 14 games this season

What's your point? He's on the fringe and plays when others are injured. Given that we rarely have a full list to choose from, he plays more often than not.

 

[Vader]

Agree that Mackay was ok to good in the second half , average in first half

Meanwhile Lyons had a 4 qtr performance and was in our top 5 players

He was not in our top 5. That's the kind of overrating that I'm talking about.

 

[Smithalicious]

Just for fun:

AFL Player Ratings!
David Mackay

1 NM Doesn’t win enough ball to be a huge factor. Is he in the Crows’ best 22? 3
2 Port Needed to bounce back after a poor effort in the previous game, and he did. 7
3 Rich Used as a link player through the middle of the ground. OK without starring. 5
4 Syd Six inside-50s and eight tackles, not afraid to get down and dirty. 5
5 Haw Hard to believe there were doubts on his future a while ago. Worked hard and consistently. 7
6 Frem Played his 150th game and was good, now winning more contested possessions. 6
7 WB Horror night. Five kicks, two inside-50s, three tackles not enough from experienced player. 3
8 Hamstring.
9 Hamstring.
10 Hamstring.
11 SANFL Dashing return from injury. Ran hard both ways. -
12 WCE Had good numbers without being a key player. 5
14 NM Made up for a costly turnover with an impressive second-half performance. 6
15 Melb Steady again from half-back/wing. Not flashy but did what was required. 6


Jarryd Lyons

1 Senior emergency.
2 SANFL 26 touches, 10 clearances and a goal in dazzling performance. -
3 Rich Good afternoon in midfield rotation with 20 touches and two goals. 6
4 Syd Poor first half with just three disposals, responded with a big second half. 5
5 Haw Quiet early but back-to-back goals were important in Crows’ night. 5
6 Frem Five clearances and a goal, just doing enough to hold his spot in the team. 5
7 SANFL Relatively quiet before booting clutch match-winning goal late. -
8 SANFL Bye. -
9 GCS Laid six tackles, put ball inside 50 seven times and booted a goal. Useful. 5
10 GWS Did some great work around the stoppages with six clearances. 7
11 StK Stepped up in the absence of Thompson with four clearances and four inside-50s. 7
12 WCE The hard nut won 17 contested possessions. 6
14 NM Playing his role as part of the midfield rotations. 6
15 Melb Got involved throughout. Seven inside-50s, five tackles and 12 CPs. 8

Mackay AFL Ave: 5.3
Lyons AFL Ave: 6.0

 

[Smithalicious]

Further AFL Player Ratings for this year (Average):
Douglas:5.64
Sloane: 7.29
Mrouch: 6.67
Brouch: 4.50
Smith: 6.36
Seedsman: 5.33
Thommo: 6.50
Atkins: 5.79

 

[Paladin]

Looking forward to seeing Hendo on the wide expanses of the MCG. Has absolutely killed it in the SANFL since being left out and I think his fitness should be peaking.

If he can hit his best and Seed joins him the week after oh boy.

Another Vader depth chart fail

 

[rezagun]

I really think that Douglas has added something up forward as well. Even more options.

Its released cc to toam and give us linebreaking ability. Dougy also is a good crumber. A valuable assett.

 

[1970crow]

He was not in our top 5. That's the kind of overrating that I'm talking about.

That's opinion though. You always overate Mackay's games. His 14 touch game in round 1 was described by you as very good. Your view is generally more skewed than most. This entire line of discussion is testament to your continued desire to see Lyons out of the side and branded "not best 22". You thought the opportunity had finally arrived and you've struggled to let it go. Just wait for Thommo to return to something resembling decent footy and you may get your wish.