Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[Val Keating]

It would also become the diet that is recommended to parents to put their children on.

 

[Val Keating]

FWIW I don’t have a problem with anyone being vegan. Good on them. It’s a noble movement.

I do have a problem with suggestions that it’s the optimal diet. That’s incorrect. It’s a decision based on ideology that it’s wrong to exploit animals and we're killing the planet with over farming.

Humans are omnivores. Simple. That’s science.

 

[Themanbun]

Are you a vegan?

Nope

 

[Themanbun]

It’s pretty simple really, if eating vegan gave optimal physical output, every top athlete would take it up and every dietitian would recommend it to athletes wanting to get to the peak physical condition

Optimal is a far different set of goal posts compared to "sufficient for elite athletes". Mitch Starc would be best getting his calories in at the end of the day with highly micronutrient dense grains but I know for a fact that his dietitian loads him up with soft serve ice cream. It has a negligible impact on his performance and athletic outputs.

The best athletes in the world all eat sub optimal diets. The real question is whether their dietary choices affect their performance. We are beginning to see through pre and peri vegan athletes that the answer is no.

 

[Chadwiko]

It’s pretty simple really, if eating vegan gave optimal physical output, every top athlete would take it up and every dietitian would recommend it to athletes wanting to get to the peak physical condition

That is genuinely starting to happen. It's just taking a long time.

(Again; I am not vegan. I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm pretty unbiased).

The greatest NFL player of all time, Tom Brady, has switched to a vegan diet.
The best receiver in the NFL DeAndre Hopkins is vegan.
Packers Quarterback Aaron Rodgers is 'mostly vegan' according to him.
There's heaps of vegans/part-time vegans in the NFL now. Literally too many to name.
Half the bloody Tennessee Titans have gone vegan, and that's in the heart of BBQ country.

It's the same thing in the NBA; you've got guys like Kyrie Irving and Damian Lillard who are full time vegans, but there's a stack of players who stick to vegan/plant-based diets during the season because they feel it improves their performance.

You're talking about a generational culture change in the way we think of food when it comes to performance. It's not going to happen overnight. But it is literally in the process of happening as we speak.

 

[Flawed Genius]

That is genuinely starting to happen. It's just taking a long time.

(Again; I am not vegan. I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm pretty unbiased).

The greatest NFL player of all time, Tom Brady, has switched to a vegan diet.
The best receiver in the NFL DeAndre Hopkins is vegan.
Packers Quarterback Aaron Rodgers is 'mostly vegan' according to him.
There's heaps of vegans/part-time vegans in the NFL now. Literally too many to name.
Half the bloody Tennessee Titans have gone vegan, and that's in the heart of BBQ country.

It's the same thing in the NBA; you've got guys like Kyrie Irving and Damian Lillard who are full time vegans, but there's a stack of players who stick to vegan/plant-based diets during the season because they feel it improves their performance.

You're talking about a generational culture change in the way we think of food when it comes to performance. It's not going to happen overnight. But it is literally in the process of happening as we speak.

This is completely anecdotal and I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian by any stretch. But I did earlier this year go through a phase where I ate stacks of salads - I mean big oversized salads with like, cranberries, pomegranates and other fruits etc, with a small amount of grilled chicken as well, but avocado, spinach, pine nuts, tomatos or cherry tomatoes ... basically everything in the pantry chucked into a bowl and mixed up with olive oil or lime juice or a vinaigrette. It was basically all I'd have for about a month - at the end of the month, combined with a fairly steady exercise regime of cardio and some light gym work - I felt about as good as I'd ever felt

I don't think I'll ever give up meat entirely - maybe dairy - but I do certainly understand the positive benefits it can have to remove meat mostly from your diet

 

[Chadwiko]

But I did earlier this year go through a phase where I ate stacks of salads
...
I felt about as good as I'd ever felt

Not to dismiss what you said, because it's perfectly valid... but the perception that a vegan diet means 'salads and vegetables' I think is part of the pushback people have about those diets.

Modern vegan food is much, much more than that.

 

[Val Keating]

That is genuinely starting to happen. It's just taking a long time.

(Again; I am not vegan. I don't really have a dog in this fight. I'm pretty unbiased).

The greatest NFL player of all time, Tom Brady, has switched to a vegan diet.
The best receiver in the NFL DeAndre Hopkins is vegan.
Packers Quarterback Aaron Rodgers is 'mostly vegan' according to him.
There's heaps of vegans/part-time vegans in the NFL now. Literally too many to name.
Half the bloody Tennessee Titans have gone vegan, and that's in the heart of BBQ country.

It's the same thing in the NBA; you've got guys like Kyrie Irving and Damian Lillard who are full time vegans, but there's a stack of players who stick to vegan/plant-based diets during the season because they feel it improves their performance.

You're talking about a generational culture change in the way we think of food when it comes to performance. It's not going to happen overnight. But it is literally in the process of happening as we speak.

Interesting. I wonder how many vegan athletes start vegan in their teens and still get there? Maybe it’s a case of once an athlete reaches physical peak and stops growing then a vegan diet (though it’s more a lifestyle) can be beneficial.

I have 8 y/o & 6 y/o daughters and I’m pretty sure veganism wouldn’t be the best choice for their growth (though getting them to eat anything healthy without disguising it is a challenge).

Do you know of any star athletes that took up veganism as a adolescent?

 

[Themanbun]

Interesting. I wonder how many vegan athletes start vegan in their teens and still get there? Maybe it’s a case of once an athlete reaches physical peak and stops growing then a vegan diet (though it’s more a lifestyle) can be beneficial.

I have 8 y/o & 6 y/o daughters and I’m pretty sure veganism wouldn’t be the best choice for their growth (though getting them to eat anything healthy without disguising it is a challenge).

Do you know of any star athletes that took up veganism as a adolescent?

Pat Neshek, Nick & Nate Diaz all went vegan as teens

 

[rickety]

My little mate likes volcanos, Journey to the Centre of the Earth is on. Not the original, some new one. But, I have just discovered the entirely stunning Anita Briem!

 

[Snake_Baker]

quantum-proof cryptography algorithm. This isn't something new. A number of cryptocurrency projects have been discussing it for some time. Opting to go with battle-tested instead of an experimental quantum-proof cryptography algorithm. It's folly to think that one area will improve and others won't develop along with it or adapt. Again, Quantum could be a long time away.

Of course it doesn't. But it could potentially safeguard you. No one knows what will happen because there are no patterns. Will people pull out of the stock market and move to the crypto market. Or will it get crushed too?! Will people look at silver and gold...

Harder to manipulate decentralised currencies. Still relatively early days but in the future, it will be even harder especially if adoption improves.

There is no "quantum-proof cryptography algorithm".

I think you misunderstand the fundamentals of quantum computing.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Val Keating Chadwiko

Doctors don't know s**t about nutrition. They're generally pretty awful in that regard.

Maybe so, but there's an awful lot of quacks out there masquerading as nutritionists and dietitians.

 

[Snake_Baker]

This is completely anecdotal ............

Yeah, and at what stage of their development did they "become" vegan?

 

[Themanbun]

Maybe so, but there's an awful lot of quacks out there masquerading as nutritionists and dietitians.

True. Personally I throw my weight behind guys like Schoenfeld, Helms, etc. Great mix of practical experience and subject matter expertise.

Their ruling on veganism for athletes is that it requires the athlete to pay more attention to their diet (which ironically can explain some of the improved results vegan athletes see), but if done properly, the difference in lean muscle mass and athletic attributes is fairly negligible.

 

[Snake_Baker]

True. Personally I throw my weight behind guys like Schoenfeld, Helms, etc. Great mix of practical experience and subject matter expertise.

Here is the one and only correct answer: There is no single, optimal, cover all dietary solution, because genotypical and phenotypical profiles play significant roles in an individual's metabolic responses.

Let's not even get started on all the variables that enter beyond this.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[Val Keating]

Pat Neshek, Nick & Nate Diaz all went vegan as teens

By teens do you mean 18-19 or closer to 13-14. Also, are vegans allowed to consume whey protein?

 

[Snake_Baker]

By teens do you mean 18-19 or closer to 13-14. Also, are vegans allowed to consume whey protein?

I doubt they're playing high level sport if they don't.

 

[Themanbun]

By teens do you mean 18-19 or closer to 13-14. Also, are vegans allowed to consume whey protein?

Vegans no whey since it's derived from curds. But soy, pea, corn protein powders. Corn proteins have a higher leucine content than meat.

 

[Val Keating]

I doubt they're playing high level sport if they don't.

Some of the athletes mentioned are at the top of their sports. If they’re consuming whey protein they aren’t true vegans anyway.

Vegans no whey since it's derived from curds. But soy, pea, corn protein powders. Corn proteins have a higher leucine content than meat.

I see veganism similar to how people practice religion. On the extreme end, some would be completely committed and wouldn’t even use anything that has an animal/animal product somewhere in the process, while others would be vegan to a point but realise the relationship between humans and animals is unavoidable.

 

[Sopwiths North]

Truth is we weren't designed as a species to be vegan. But it's also true that we weren't designed to be pounding back as much meat as a lot us First World folks do. And dairy is a bizarre anomaly that has no healthy place in the human diet. We're hunter/gatherers as a species, and that means we're designed to eat leaves, roots, and berries, and meat when we can get it ( i.e. not every single day). But whatever, it's 2019. Things have very obviously changed, and now finding moderation is our problem. The act of eating meat in itself doesn't have to involve unnecessary animal suffering and it doesn't have to cause health risks and it doesn't have to be harmful to the planet. But the way we go about it at the moment, simply because our demand to consume it is so high, makes all these things very real, and increasingly problematic.

I'm with Chadwicko on the "change is happening now" observation. Many people are becoming more informed, more curious, more open. Canada has changed its food guide completely this year and dropped dairy right off it, and reduced the amount of meat recommended, replacing it with legumes, nuts, etc. Sadly, doctors don't seem to have caught up yet, but it's been my personal experience that most doctors a) know next to nothing about nutrition , and b) almost never recommend managing health through proper diet and exercise, and just prescribe medication instead. But that's not necessarily intended as a slight on doctors - there's a lot about how they are trained and the role big pharma plays etc., etc., and that's a whole other topic. But they need to change too.

With respect to kids - from a purely health-wise position, raising kids vegan is totally fine. But I feel like any puritanical dietary approach with kids could put some of them at risk for developing eating disorders. Deprivation of any sort is not the way to go, no matter what it is you're denying them - sugar, meat, ice cream, whatever. Eating those things isn't a crime, and little kids don't understand or care about the complexities behind why they're being denied them. But to be honest, most of the vegans/vegetarians I've known haven't had much trouble with the diet thing with their kids. They're pretty cool about it, and while their kids have certainly tried meat a few times, they've mostly ended up going m'eh, didn't really like it that much, move on.

We don't all have to be vegans. We just have to figure out how to consume meat with less animal suffering and less harm to the planet. And I do feel that the awareness around that is growing. Question is, is it happening fast enough. Time will tell, but I hope so.

 

[Royal Flush]

Truth is we weren't designed as a species to be vegan. But it's also true that we weren't designed to be pounding back as much meat as a lot us First World folks do. And dairy is a bizarre anomaly that has no healthy place in the human diet. We're hunter/gatherers as a species, and that means we're designed to eat leaves, roots, and berries, and meat when we can get it ( i.e. not every single day). But whatever, it's 2019. Things have very obviously changed, and now finding moderation is our problem. The act of eating meat in itself doesn't have to involve unnecessary animal suffering and it doesn't have to cause health risks and it doesn't have to be harmful to the planet. But the way we go about it at the moment, simply because our demand to consume it is so high, makes all these things very real, and increasingly problematic.

I'm with Chadwicko on the "change is happening now" observation. Many people are becoming more informed, more curious, more open. Canada has changed its food guide completely this year and dropped dairy right off it, and reduced the amount of meat recommended, replacing it with legumes, nuts, etc. Sadly, doctors don't seem to have caught up yet, but it's been my personal experience that most doctors a) know next to nothing about nutrition , and b) almost never recommend managing health through proper diet and exercise, and just prescribe medication instead. But that's not necessarily intended as a slight on doctors - there's a lot about how they are trained and the role big pharma plays etc., etc., and that's a whole other topic. But they need to change too.

With respect to kids - from a purely health-wise position, raising kids vegan is totally fine. But I feel like any puritanical dietary approach with kids could put some of them at risk for developing eating disorders. Deprivation of any sort is not the way to go, no matter what it is you're denying them - sugar, meat, ice cream, whatever. Eating those things isn't a crime, and little kids don't understand or care about the complexities behind why they're being denied them. But to be honest, most of the vegans/vegetarians I've known haven't had much trouble with the diet thing with their kids. They're pretty cool about it, and while their kids have certainly tried meat a few times, they've mostly ended up going m'eh, didn't really like it that much, move on.

We don't all have to be vegans. We just have to figure out how to consume meat with less animal suffering and less harm to the planet. And I do feel that the awareness around that is growing. Question is, is it happening fast enough. Time will tell, but I hope so.

I agree vegan is a disciplinary lifestyle choice. Any form discipline is a good thing including religious.

Long term, vegan diet is not sustainable for human health and well being.

Iron from a vegan diet is not absorbed well. Will be iron defecient.

B12 , your gonna need a shot of it from the doctor

Calcium from a vegan diet not well obsorbed. And will have long term consequences through deficiency.

Omega 3 fats, forget it, you'll need supplements.

Children should never be exposed to vegan diets, and too early a trend to have conclusive scientific study of the harm it could cause their development.

A simpletons view on vegan diets.

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[Snake_Baker]

Iron from a vegan diet is not absorbed well. Will be iron defecient.

Calcium from a vegan diet not well obsorbed. And will have long term consequences through deficiency.

What's that? Explain?

 

[Royal Flush]

What's that? Explain?

They'll say that they get iron from dried fruits and nuts, but it's not nearly as efficiently obsorbed as iron from animal fats. Meaning they will get some iron, but will still be iron defecient.
Calcium for obvious reasons, completely no dairy. They'll get it from fortified sources like almond milk, tofus ect.
They'll be defecient in calcium for that reason and if your a bloke you'll end up with bitch ****, so to speak.
All this will be a long term problem , being vegan for a decade will recorrect itself when diet changes. Long term as in multiple decades will cause health issues

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[Snake_Baker]

Okay, calcium is not an "absorption" issue, it's a vegan dietary shortfall.

What is the difference in iron absorption profiles?

 

[Royal Flush]

Okay, calcium is not an "absorption" issue, it's a vegan dietary shortfall.

What is the difference in iron absorption profiles?

No idea snake, like I said a simpletons view on vegan diets. I leave that level of analysis to the scientists.


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