Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

[ferball]

you’re no longer part of a revolution, you’re part of a marketing exercise..

Would make a good t shirt.

#colourrevolution.

 

[ferball]

it is interesting/amusing that you thought that comment was directed at you.

I honestly didn't think it was directed at me, but since that's the way it thought it was ironic enough to mention.

The police are the muscle for the gang we call the state. It comes from the word polis doesn't it? Referring to "the" city. Sikhism started as a religious martial movement to protect hippie peace loving Hindus from aggressive Muslim invaders centuries ago.

We've all got to hold our ground somehow. Most people aren't Wayne Carey - genuinely capable of swinging a gigantic two handed broad sword while leading an army from the front. So people form states, martial religions, or join gangs like the rebels or the coppers to find strength in numbers.

Most people get that. Everyone tut tuts riots but they miss the obvious point.

People riot when as a group they've had enough and they **** this shit were over it.

I dunno about the actual crime rates during the miners strikes, it's just one of those dumb stats. Did you ever see that show Hamish Macbeth? Specifically the episode where Hamish goes on holiday and some gung ho robocop from the city comes to town sure there can't possibly be a town with a non existent crime rate?

I don't want to live in Minneapolis anyway, but no cops wouldn't convince me one way or the other. I have nothing to do with them if possible anyway.

 

[DesertRoo]

Would make a good t shirt.

#colourrevolution.

Hahaha I’ll take 10%,

I’d love for the ****ers position to be honourable but you just know it’s not. You can see by how many companies have been called out for doing shitty things to people. They absolutely don’t care.
I also love how people aren’t screaming for redistribution of wealth or a fairer system anymore. Which was the case a couple of years ago.
Attitudes have shifted to defund police for these basic services, it’s not an ‘or’ situation.
the funniest part is people a world away here are buying the bullshit, messed up.

 

[ferball]

Honestly further to this, just keep it in mind when Aly goes on one of his holier then thou virtue signalling wanks. He’s just like the rest of em. Even had the front to say to Heritier ‘I too have suffered from racism’ only to go on and downplay what happened to Heritier because they wanted to shut down the story.

FWIW Aly comes from a very privileged background. Poor fella. Don’t know how he managed to get through it.

I remember that episode. Probably had a big sook about it in here too.

 

[Val Keating]

In 100 years time the w@nker class might have turned on aboriginals in order to advertise to the world how "empathetic" and "deep" they are, and be tearing down statues of Albert Namijira because he raised his voice to his missus once. Who knows what form idiocy will take then?

In 100 years they might be able resurrect him and make him say sorry

 

[DesertRoo]

Man who claimed George Floyd and Derek Chauvin "bumped heads" changes story

In interview with Jeff Pegues, a club worker talks about Floyd and Chauvin.

www.cbsnews.com

As mourners in Houston honor the life of George Floyd in Minneapolis, CBS News is learning new details from a nightclub coworker about alleged history between Floyd and Derek Chauvin, the former officer who is charged in Floyd's death. According to a former coworker, not only did they know each other, but they had a history of friction.

Floyd and Chauvin both worked security at a nightclub at the same time. Coworker David Pinney said the two men had a history.

 

[ferball]

Man who claimed George Floyd and Derek Chauvin "bumped heads" changes story

In interview with Jeff Pegues, a club worker talks about Floyd and Chauvin.

www.cbsnews.com

As mourners in Houston honor the life of George Floyd in Minneapolis, CBS News is learning new details from a nightclub coworker about alleged history between Floyd and Derek Chauvin, the former officer who is charged in Floyd's death. According to a former coworker, not only did they know each other, but they had a history of friction.

Floyd and Chauvin both worked security at a nightclub at the same time. Coworker David Pinney said the two men had a history.

I heard this the other day.

Chauvin might actually go for this if it can be shown to be a factor. It becomes about him and his personal relationship with the guy he killed. Tef might be right, might get the political outcome he expects (instead of the other, usual, political outcome.)

 

[Tas]

I honestly didn't think it was directed at me, but since that's the way it thought it was ironic enough to mention.

My point is that any form of government is the will of the vast majority of the people. Even in a shithole like China, if 1.4 billion people revolted and came for the people in power, even the Chinese military couldn't stop the coup.

It is one thing to take cheap shots at people when you are in a mob and are picking out a straggler, it is another thing to put yourself out there as a target. At the end of the day you are going to replace one form of police with another or the place is going to go to complete shit.

The police are the muscle for the gang we call the state. It comes from the word polis doesn't it? Referring to "the" city. Sikhism started as a religious martial movement to protect hippie peace loving Hindus from aggressive Muslim invaders centuries ago.

Police comes from the ancient Greek word πολιτεία, loosely meaning system of government. Greece at the time was just city states.

You are correct that the police is the muscle for the state, and it must be legitimised by the state to have the monopoly of violence. It is why when it comes to a conflict between the military and the police, the police have the supreme authority, ie you can have police arrest and convict military people. Military only have any authority or power when expressly given. It is partly why americans get twitchy when the national guard or military are used internally.

I wouldn't get too touchy-feely about the etymology of the word, ancient Greece used slaves to be police at times.

I am not sure of the relevance of the Sikh reference, I would like to avoid religious conflicts unless it is particularly relevant.

We've all got to hold our ground somehow. Most people aren't Wayne Carey - genuinely capable of swinging a gigantic two handed broad sword while leading an army from the front. So people form states, martial religions, or join gangs like the rebels or the coppers to find strength in numbers.

Most people get that. Everyone tut tuts riots but they miss the obvious point.

People riot when as a group they've had enough and they fu** this shit were over it.

The point about modern police is that it is very structured, we have very clear rules and regulations about what is allowed and what isn't. We have internal affairs which investigate complaints, we have civilians who appoint the chief of police and who is responsible for how their police force is run. We have civilians who construct the laws which police enforce and include how they can police, ie one judge forced police to meet certain conditions before using tear gas on the public.

You can be very unhappy that incidents like Floyd's death happen and you can still be for an effective police force. You might say 100k people come out to protest in Melbourne, that is a huge, right? But, it is about 2% of the population. 90%+ probably don't give a shit. They do in terms of the loss of human life, but they know he died because he resisted arrest, if he didn't resist he would have been alive and he would have been just someone else nobody gave a shit about who was heading for prison.

We are meant to lose our shit and throw the baby out with the bathwater because the USA has some shit cops? People just want competent cops that can process people without killing them.

People protested in Australia to peddle whatever political issue they wanted to push. Read this depressing article about 153 aboriginal deaths in custody between 2008 and 2020, the title and preamble made me angry, how can we let this travesty go on? They had a database to every one of these deaths... 72 for medical issues, 23 self harm, 23 road accident, 12 medical episode following restraint, 8 undetermaned, 6 alcohol/drug toxicity, 5 falls, 4 gunshots.

Of the 4 shootings, one was deemed self-defence, two have the police officers in question charged and the third one the inquest is still inn progress.

It doesn't seem like the incidents of police killing indigenous here is high, we do not tolerate the deaths, the one that got off on self-defence had tasered and pepper sprayed the man in question (who was called because he threatened to kill his ex) and video footage shows him still coming out swinging a tyre iron at police. The one still pending has allegedly the man coming at police with a knife.

There is a substantial amount of violence in the indigenous community according to Dr Anthony Dillon, particularly domestic abuse, and police are called in to protect the women who will end up abused if police do not intervene. Aboriginal women are 34 times more likely to be hospitalised from family violence and 11 times more likely to be killed, despite evidence that the majority of family violence is unreported in the indigenous community. We as a country have a lot of problems to deal with but I think the solution comes from improving the system we have.

As Dr Dillon says, movements like Black Lives Matter are hypocrites who care about a handful of black people killed by white people but are silent about the extreme levels of black on black violence and deaths. Ultimately, any preventable death is an unnecessary one and we should try and make the system better.

If people feel they have ideas that can make the system better or have a different system that will work, we already have a political avenue for people to present those ideas.

I dunno about the actual crime rates during the miners strikes, it's just one of those dumb stats. Did you ever see that show Hamish Macbeth? Specifically the episode where Hamish goes on holiday and some gung ho robocop from the city comes to town sure there can't possibly be a town with a non existent crime rate?

I don't want to live in Minneapolis anyway, but no cops wouldn't convince me one way or the other. I have nothing to do with them if possible anyway.

Haven't seen that show.

I've never had a reason to have had to deal with police officers, other than the very rare speeding ticket, thankfully most of these are automated now. However, if I was thinking of moving and that place didn't have a police force, it wouldn't be a place I would end up going to.

 

[rickety]

 

[ferball]

My point is that any form of government is the will of the vast majority of the people. Even in a shithole like China, if 1.4 billion people revolted and came for the people in power, even the Chinese military couldn't stop the coup.

To a point. People tolerate government if their lives aren't shit and will tolerate things getting incrementally worse for stability. To a point. That doesn't mean it's the will of the people, more their apathy or tolerance. The government in China does seem to have its people's support tho.

It is one thing to take cheap shots at people when you are in a mob and are picking out a straggler, it is another thing to put yourself out there as a target. At the end of the day you are going to replace one form of police with another or the place is going to go to complete shit.

That was my point actually. Some form of physical social security will always be important ... Even vital to any society. Although I see our society as an evolution from criminality to civility. William the Conquerer was a thief essentially, a robber baron, but common law became a legitimate system eventually.

Police comes from the ancient Greek word πολιτεία, loosely meaning system of government. Greece at the time was just city states.

You are correct that the police is the muscle for the state, and it must be legitimised by the state to have the monopoly of violence. It is why when it comes to a conflict between the military and the police, the police have the supreme authority, ie you can have police arrest and convict military people. Military only have any authority or power when expressly given. It is partly why americans get twitchy when the national guard or military are used internally.

I wouldn't get too touchy-feely about the etymology of the word, ancient Greece used slaves to be police at times.

I am not sure of the relevance of the Sikh reference, I would like to avoid religious conflicts unless it is particularly relevant.

Sikhism is a religion that formed to provide protection ie legitimate violence to another religion, Hinduism, in the face of violence from a third religion.

See your point about replacing one form of police with another.

The point about modern police is that it is very structured, we have very clear rules and regulations about what is allowed and what isn't. We have internal affairs which investigate complaints, we have civilians who appoint the chief of police and who is responsible for how their police force is run. We have civilians who construct the laws which police enforce and include how they can police, ie one judge forced police to meet certain conditions before using tear gas on the public.

And yet with all those things in place it's only the ubiquitous surveillance of modern society that has put any break on police violence and brutality.

You can be very unhappy that incidents like Floyd's death happen and you can still be for an effective police force. You might say 100k people come out to protest in Melbourne, that is a huge, right? But, it is about 2% of the population. 90%+ probably don't give a shit. They do in terms of the loss of human life, but they know he died because he resisted arrest, if he didn't resist he would have been alive and he would have been just someone else nobody gave a shit about who was heading for prison.

We are meant to lose our shit and throw the baby out with the bathwater because the USA has some shit cops? People just want competent cops that can process people without killing them.

People protested in Australia to peddle whatever political issue they wanted to push. Read this depressing article about 153 aboriginal deaths in custody between 2008 and 2020, the title and preamble made me angry, how can we let this travesty go on? They had a database to every one of these deaths... 72 for medical issues, 23 self harm, 23 road accident, 12 medical episode following restraint, 8 undetermaned, 6 alcohol/drug toxicity, 5 falls, 4 gunshots.

Of the 4 shootings, one was deemed self-defence, two have the police officers in question charged and the third one the inquest is still inn progress.

It doesn't seem like the incidents of police killing indigenous here is high, we do not tolerate the deaths, the one that got off on self-defence had tasered and pepper sprayed the man in question (who was called because he threatened to kill his ex) and video footage shows him still coming out swinging a tyre iron at police. The one still pending has allegedly the man coming at police with a knife.

There are still more dodgy deaths of indigenous people in custody than not. Also when indigenous people die in custody in dodgy (or reasonable) circumstances indigenous people get upset and make noise about it. In my experience it seems non indigenous people don't give a **** about anyone in custody whatever their background.

However we do tolerate indigenous deaths, especially at the hands of non indigenous people, and we couldn't give a shit otherwise many of the circumstances leading to some of those medical deaths wouldn't have happened. Otherwise people would do serious time for killing aboriginal people instead of a year or two. Otherwise medical episodes following restraint ie being beaten to death if you are singing in public on Palm Island.

There is a substantial amount of violence in the indigenous community according to Dr Anthony Dillon, particularly domestic abuse, and police are called in to protect the women who will end up abused if police do not intervene. Aboriginal women are 34 times more likely to be hospitalised from family violence and 11 times more likely to be killed, despite evidence that the majority of family violence is unreported in the indigenous community. We as a country have a lot of problems to deal with but I think the solution comes from improving the system we have.

As Dr Dillon says, movements like Black Lives Matter are hypocrites who care about a handful of black people killed by white people but are silent about the extreme levels of black on black violence and deaths. Ultimately, any preventable death is an unnecessary one and we should try and make the system better.

Black Lives Matter was started by black Americans who worked to protect their communities against deaths by police and from criminal activity. Obviously they aren't hypocrites whatever you may think of some of the people who support their cause. Dr Dillon should have either known that or made the effort to find it out instead of ignorantly labelling them hypocrites.

If people feel they have ideas that can make the system better or have a different system that will work, we already have a political avenue for people to present those ideas.

No we don't. We have all sorts of things set up to prevent that sort of behaviour these days. The people rioting in America don't feel they have access to any of those avenues for change anyway. Otherwise they wouldn't be rioting.

 

[Val Keating]

I like this bloke but jeez it would make it interesting if Wilder beats him.

 

[goalieboy82]

listening to this (after watching Rick and Morty)

 

[Tas]

To a point. People tolerate government if their lives aren't shit and will tolerate things getting incrementally worse for stability. To a point. That doesn't mean it's the will of the people, more their apathy or tolerance. The government in China does seem to have its people's support tho.

If you do not actively fight for your political right then you support whatever force determines the world you live in, be it majority rule in a democracy or a thug in a dictatorship. It is the lesson we learn from people who have laid down their lives so that future generations could live in peace. If you do not fight for your political opinion then your opinion doesn't matter in the real world.

That was my point actually. Some form of physical social security will always be important ... Even vital to any society. Although I see our society as an evolution from criminality to civility. William the Conquerer was a thief essentially, a robber baron, but common law became a legitimate system eventually.

Everyone with power and wealth in the past was a thief or a thrug of some sort. We don't celebrate the past by modern standards but recognise it put us on the path to greater enlightenment.

Sikhism is a religion that formed to provide protection ie legitimate violence to another religion, Hinduism, in the face of violence from a third religion.

See your point about replacing one form of police with another.

Religions are just another set of rules looking to establish political power, it is great if some people can find some spiritual comfort from them but it is all about power and control.

And yet with all those things in place it's only the ubiquitous surveillance of modern society that has put any break on police violence and brutality.

Surveillance is just an effective tool for finding out the truth. It is partly why I am amused by the degree to which people hate surveillance. If you do not break any laws and have no intention to then the only thing surveillance will do is help prove your innocence.

There are still more dodgy deaths of indigenous people in custody than not.

More than non-indigenous? I haven't seen anything credible that suggests this.

Also when indigenous people die in custody in dodgy (or reasonable) circumstances indigenous people get upset and make noise about it.

People should be upset about anyone who dies in custody, but are the deaths extraordinary by comparison to white people? The famous 1987 Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody didn't investigate the non-indigenous deaths in custody so it wasn't really able to draw a conclusion on if there was a higher rate of deaths in similar circumstances. A 1991 report by the same name found that the death rate in custody was similar for both indigenous and non-indigenous people, it found the number of indigenous deaths was disproportionate to the demographic statistics largely because indigenous people are massively over-represented in crimes.

Indigenous represent 3.3% of Australia's population yet are 28% of the total adult prison population as of 2019, we have a crisis in the country that indigenous people are struggling and things are getting worse and this is despite programs designed to address problems.

The Australian Law Reform Commission released a report in 2018 on the disproportionate incarceration rates found males were 2% of the male population and 27% of prison population, women worse off being 34% of the female prison population and that share has been growing over the last few decades.

A 2015 government report on The Health of Australia's Prisoners in 2015 states “Indigenous Australians were no more likely to die in custody than non-Indigenous Australians” and “With just over one-quarter (27 per cent) of prisoners in custody being Indigenous, and 17 percent of deaths in custody being Indigenous, Indigenous prisoners were under-represented.”

The question is why are indigenous over-represented in terms of prison population, the vast majority of people in prison are repeat offenders, according to ABS Prison in Australian (2019) data, 78% had been imprisoned under sentence previously. The breakdown of crimes seem to be fairly consistent with non-indigenous crimes, less illicit drug offences and more acts intended to cause injury.

The best solution to addressing deaths is to address the socio-economic factors which contribute to indigenous commiting a lot more crime, there are atrocious levels of family violence and domestic abuse problems, there are numerous other social problems many governments have tried to solve by throwing money at the problem directly or groups who think they have the answers. Nothing has been successful to date.

In my experience it seems non indigenous people don't give a fu** about anyone in custody whatever their background.

It is not that people do not care, they just do not have any power to do anything about it in a meaningful way. If you just release every prisoner and didn't put them back in jail it would just result in more suffering for the community. In a surprise to almost nobody, many of the prisoners let out by NYC and California due to coronavirus concerns were found to be re-offending, almost immediately. I don't think you can lock someone up in a hell hole for years and expect that they are going to come out the other end reformed. What leads people to a life of crime is a complete civil breakdown, some parts you can easily address, other parts are extremely difficult to, such as abuse received growing up and having a poor family structure.

We know the path a lot of broken kids are going to take but we don't do enough to prevent that happening.

However we do tolerate indigenous deaths, especially at the hands of non indigenous people, and we couldn't give a shit otherwise many of the circumstances leading to some of those medical deaths wouldn't have happened. Otherwise people would do serious time for killing aboriginal people instead of a year or two. Otherwise medical episodes following restraint ie being beaten to death if you are singing in public on Palm Island.

As a community we don't tolerate them, I don't think we tolerate any deaths (indigenous or not). I am not saying there aren't any unjust deaths, there obviously are, but there are also unjust deaths to non-indigenous people. Some will call it racism when it comes to explain indigenous deaths, but it doesn't account for deaths in custody of non-indigenous at similar rates.

I think we have a problem with some people in the force being incompetent, others are campaigners and I think the vast majority of campaigners are campaigners to everyone.

This police officer that was acquitted in the Mulrunji's death went on to be a piece of shit somewhere else and abused someone else he thought was insulting him, before eventually retiring. We should have better people working as police officers.

My point is we want scumbags like that policeman off the force and people had to know he was abusive before that incident and he was abuse afterwards and he wasn't terminated yet we have these laws and standards, there are just too many people not doing their job and holding people accountable. However, there are numerous white people who are also killed in custody, some people just don't give a shit about them specifically, they only care about the indigenous that are wrongly abused or killed. A minority of shit cops doesn't mean we need to throw out the entire police force. We just need to get rid of the minority of shit cops.

Racism does exist and I am sure there are some piece of shit cops who unfairly target indigenous, but I think the vast majority are just campaigners who are campaigners to everyone. That doesn't make it right, we have to weed every single one of them off the police force.

Black Lives Matter was started by black Americans who worked to protect their communities against deaths by police and from criminal activity. Obviously they aren't hypocrites whatever you may think of some of the people who support their cause. Dr Dillon should have either known that or made the effort to find it out instead of ignorantly labelling them hypocrites.

From his article: https://www.news.com.au/national/bl...s/news-story/9c06a20372ff0b828b18b1222324b659

"These professional protesters are latching onto the Aboriginal deaths in custody issue to enable them to justify their confected outrage and go out marching with their protest signs that say: ‘Black lives matter’.

For them, an Aboriginal death in custody is proof positive of racism.

For Aboriginal deaths in custody, let’s provide some context here.

Aboriginal Australians in custody are less likely to die than non-Aboriginal Australians in custody."

As an Aboriginal, I am sure Dr Dillon would prefer things to improve for the indigenous community.

In 2016 BLM raised more than $100m from liberal foundations, George Soros coughed up another $33 million.

Black Lives Matter cashes in with $100 million from liberal foundations

For all its talk of being a street uprising, Black Lives Matter is increasingly awash in cash, raking in pledges of more than $100 million from liberal foundations and others eager to contribute to what has become the grant-making cause du jour.

www.washingtontimes.com

What exactly did the group accomplish between 2016 and 2020? Where has all the money gone?

No we don't. We have all sorts of things set up to prevent that sort of behaviour these days. The people rioting in America don't feel they have access to any of those avenues for change anyway. Otherwise they wouldn't be rioting.

What are you talking about? 9 of the 13 members of Minneapolis city council have pledged support for defunding the police, if you can get that kind of support for something so extreme, why can't you get support for the kind of reforms the chief of police wants to impose?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Wokeness dismantled

 

[Snake_Baker]

Statues, films, etc.

The book burning continues.

Gone with the Wind gone from the HBO stream after Hollywood outcry

HBO Max has temporarily removed Gone With the Wind from its catalogue after the screenwriter of 12 Years a Slave called on the company to delete it from the list.

www.theage.com.au

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” - George Orwell (1984)

 

[goalieboy82]

Statues, films, etc.

The book burning continues.

Gone with the Wind gone from the HBO stream after Hollywood outcry

HBO Max has temporarily removed Gone With the Wind from its catalogue after the screenwriter of 12 Years a Slave called on the company to delete it from the list.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Snake_Baker]

...............and the real tragedy of all of this is that the death of George Flyod is totally unacceptable, but we're now seeing how sincere the mob truly is about that incident.

 

[goalieboy82]

Statues, films, etc.

The book burning continues.

Gone with the Wind gone from the HBO stream after Hollywood outcry

HBO Max has temporarily removed Gone With the Wind from its catalogue after the screenwriter of 12 Years a Slave called on the company to delete it from the list.

www.theage.com.au

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” - George Orwell (1984)

the State is right or we stand him up against the wall and pop goes the weasel:

 

[DesertRoo]

Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity, when people are being held responsible for things that happened a couple of generations before they were born.
While other people aren’t held responsible for their actions today.... #eliteimmunity

 

[Snake_Baker]

Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity, when people are being held responsible for things that happened a couple of generations before they were born.
While other people aren’t held responsible for their actions today.... #eliteimmunity

Do your really even have to ask the question?

The seizing of power is being facilitated by an assignation of guilt upon people who did not commit the crime.

 

[Val Keating]

...............and the real tragedy of all of this is that the death of George Flyod is totally unacceptable, but we're now seeing how sincere the mob truly is about that incident.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1270848355606777856

You know she doesn’t give a ****. Just using it as a platform.

 

[Val Keating]

Why stop there? Pull down any statue of the the founding fathers?

Maybe just start looking after people hey? Give them Medicare. Hold the police to a higher standard. Make college affordable for anyone with the grades good enough to get in.

Pulling down statues is kind of condescending tbh. “Just pull down some statues of old rich white guys from the south, that will shut them up”

 

[Val Keating]

Pelosi doesn’t give a **** about any of that. She owns the house responsible for taking money off the people and giving it to the richest companies in America. She’s gross.

 

[DesertRoo]

Statues, films, etc.

The book burning continues.

Gone with the Wind gone from the HBO stream after Hollywood outcry

HBO Max has temporarily removed Gone With the Wind from its catalogue after the screenwriter of 12 Years a Slave called on the company to delete it from the list.

www.theage.com.au

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” - George Orwell (1984)

You know the shit thing about that, it’s staring Hattie McDaniel the first Black person to win an Oscar.. honestly what a joke, how is anyone meant to learn from the past if it all of a sudden there’s no record of it.

 

[Val Keating]

This is hyperbolic, but they need to be careful. NASCAR has just banned the confederate flag from any event. They’re teetering closer to the edge of actual civil conflict.