Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

[DesertRoo]

 

[Val Keating]

French City Rocked by Unrest Blamed on Score-Settling Chechens - The Moscow Times

New tensions on Monday flared in France's eastern city of Dijon after it was rocked by a weekend of unrest blamed on Chechens seeking vengeance for an assault on a teenager.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Crazy scenes out of Dijon as Heavily Armed Chechen gangs have been shooting at African gangs.. wild Wild West.

Soldiers take to Dijon as Chechen gangs open fire with assault rifles

France's gendarmerie flooded into Dijon today after videos released on social media show well-armed masked men - who also brandish pistols - in the eastern city, 200 miles from Paris.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I watched a few videos of that kicking off yesterday. Those dudes are nuts.

 

[Val Keating]

Pretty full on in France at the moment.

 

[Sopwiths North]

Jean Luc Simpson posted a link under another name ages ago re the bold. A former CIA operative who worked in Afghanistan during the GWOT joined the US police force and wrote an article about it.

The major point he made was the complete absence of police de escalation. They aren't trained in it and are actively encouraged to escalate not de escalate.

The cops are the authority of the state so they never back down, the never de escalate and they never walk away. The state doesn't work that way. It doesn't allow its authority to be challenged.

Re the italic bit. Why would you believe that? Given the killings by cops in the US. Hundreds, sometimes Thousands of black men are shot by cops in the US every year and have been for decades. The vast majority of those shootings haven't inspired this rioting because everyone knows they are justified shootings. Involving people with serious weaponry. It's the murders that are never punished that inspires rioting etc. look at Palm Island or Maquarie Fields in Australia.

Nothing has changed since Rodney Brown with the possible exception that he might not have survived today.

I love the way people who aren't black are banging on about how racism has nothing to do with this.

What the fu** would youse know about it.

It's like that Maj inspired with the White hand holding the black hand to stop it falling.

It's a nice sentiment in terms of making ignorant people feel good about themselves but it's an outright lie.

No one held Maj up, he dropped into the river and was very lucky to survive, and the media (fronted by white people) in the lead up to the incident did the opposite.

There's maybe two or three other regular posters on this board who might have enough of a clue to make reasonable comments about what is happening the rest have NFI.

Spot on ferbs, excellent post. I have to say, I've been pretty taken aback by the number of posters in this thread who've revealed surprisingly racist leanings. It's pretty depressing actually, and it's made me just kind of walk away more than once over the last few weeks. But Val was questioning about the outcome of the Rayshard Brooks killing, so thought I'd weigh in just this one more time.

First off, Rayshard Brooks should not be dead simply because he was drunk at a Wendy's. The officer who killed him has been fired, and the Chief of Police has resigned. His death has been ruled a homicide by the coroner.

Incidentally, the officer who killed Breonna Taylor in Louisville (she was shot 8 times as she was running away from police into the hallway of her apartment), has still not been charged with anything. Ms. Taylor was a black first responder, working on the Covid front lines. Police raided her apartment on a drug warrant while she was asleep in her bed. No drugs were found.

And then there's Robert Fuller, a 24 year old black man, who was found hanging from a tree outside a city hall in California last week. His death was dismissed by police as a suicide, despite the fact that another black man was found similarly hung from a tree last month just 70 kms away. Mr. Fuller's family has had to force police to investigate his death.

Here in Canada, there are over 1,600 missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls whose deaths and disappearances remain unsolved due to active lack of police investigation. And just last week police dashcam footage was made public here of the brutal beating by RCMP of Allan Adam, Chief of the Athabasca Chipewya First Nation over expired license plates. The incident was deemed acceptable use of force by RCMP review until the footage went public. Pressure on the police has now made then roll that opinion back, and reconsider whether that response was appropriate.

Canadian RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki said in an interview this week that she did not understand the meaning of the term "institutionalised racism". When pressed, she admitted that she felt that "unconscious bias" existed within the force. 24 hours later, she too rolled back her statement and admitted that institutionalised racism exists within the RCMP. She is still in charge of the entire Canadian force though, despite seemingly not having a competent understanding of racism.

I don't think anyone with even a modicum of awareness of the world around them can say that systemic racism isn't very much alive and real. And especially not in these last 21 days, when millions of people have been taking to the streets to make sure that it's no longer buried by the authorities that allow and perpetrate it. No more sweeping it under the rug - the police brutality, the unnecessary use of lethal force, the unsolved deaths and disappearances of thousands of Black and Indigenous people. Quick accountability where before there was none needs to become the new normal. Right now police are only acting the way they have in Mr. Brooks's death because the eyes of the world are on them, and they know they are being scrutinised. Otherwise Rayford Brooks would be just another statistic, a black man whose death while running for his life would have seen no accountability whatsoever. And yes, I say "running for his life", because frankly, if I was a young black man detained by police in the US today, I'd probably try and run too. It might be my best chance of living. George Floyd was unarmed and didn't resist, but three cops murdered him anyway.

We shouldn't even still be having this conversation. The fact that we are is only further proof that racism exists within police institutions, and all other social and government systems. The only way any change is going to be forced is for the voice of the people to keep the pressure up. Change has always been effected by the people, and they do it only when the pain of the current state becomes too great to keep bearing. So we're in this window of opportunity to change right now, meaning we're well past arguing about whether or not there is a problem. What we need to do now is keep holding to accountability the systems and the individuals within them who are okay with it.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

Spot on ferbs, excellent post. I have to say, I've been pretty taken aback by the number of posters in this thread who've revealed surprisingly racist leanings. It's pretty depressing actually, and it's made me just kind of walk away more than once over the last few weeks. But Val was questioning about the outcome of the Rayshard Brooks killing, so thought I'd weigh in just this one more time.

First off, Rayshard Brooks should not be dead simply because he was drunk at a Wendy's. The officer who killed him has been fired, and the Chief of Police has resigned. His death has been ruled a homicide by the coroner.

Incidentally, the officer who killed Breonna Taylor in Louisville (she was shot 8 times as she was running away from police into the hallway of her apartment), has still not been charged with anything. Ms. Taylor was a black first responder, working on the Covid front lines. Police raided her apartment on a drug warrant while she was asleep in her bed. No drugs were found.

And then there's Robert Fuller, a 24 year old black man, who was found hanging from a tree outside a city hall in California last week. His death was dismissed by police as a suicide, despite the fact that another black man was found similarly hung from a tree last month just 70 kms away. Mr. Fuller's family has had to force police to investigate his death.

Here in Canada, there are over 1,600 missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls whose deaths and disappearances remain unsolved due to active lack of police investigation. And just last week police dashcam footage was made public here of the brutal beating by RCMP of Allan Adam, Chief of the Athabasca Chipewya First Nation over expired license plates. The incident was deemed acceptable use of force by RCMP review until the footage went public. Pressure on the police has now made then roll that opinion back, and reconsider whether that response was appropriate.

Canadian RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki said in an interview this week that she did not understand the meaning of the term "institutionalised racism". When pressed, she admitted that she felt that "unconscious bias" existed within the force. 24 hours later, she too rolled back her statement and admitted that institutionalised racism exists within the RCMP. She is still in charge of the entire Canadian force though, despite seemingly not having a competent understanding of racism.

I don't think anyone with even a modicum of awareness of the world around them can say that systemic racism isn't very much alive and real. And especially not in these last 21 days, when millions of people have been taking to the streets to make sure that it's no longer buried by the authorities that allow and perpetrate it. No more sweeping it under the rug - the police brutality, the unnecessary use of lethal force, the unsolved deaths and disappearances of thousands of Black and Indigenous people. Quick accountability where before there was none needs to become the new normal. Right now police are only acting the way they have in Mr. Brooks's death because the eyes of the world are on them, and they know they are being scrutinised. Otherwise Rayford Brooks would be just another statistic, a black man whose death while running for his life would have seen no accountability whatsoever. And yes, I say "running for his life", because frankly, if I was a young black man detained by police in the US today, I'd probably try and run too. It might be my best chance of living. George Floyd was unarmed and didn't resist, but three cops murdered him anyway.

We shouldn't even still be having this conversation. The fact that we are is only further proof that racism exists within police institutions, and all other social and government systems. The only way any change is going to be forced is for the voice of the people to keep the pressure up. Change has always been effected by the people, and they do it only when the pain of the current state becomes too great to keep bearing. So we're in this window of opportunity to change right now, meaning we're well past arguing about whether or not there is a problem. What we need to do now is keep holding to accountability the systems and the individuals within them who are okay with it.

It's not clear to me, are you lumping me in with the posters with "surprisingly racist leanings"? I outright stated multiple times that police reform is needed, that cops need to be better trained and better able to de-escalate situations, and that there are deep-seated racial issues in America. Does thinking that someone who violently resisted arrest and then fought police was shot because he violently resisted arrest and then fought police, rather than because he was black, mean I'm a racist?

Is that the world we live in now? Where saying that classifies you as being depressingly racist? If you have no problem with my posts, then I have no problem with yours. But if you're implying there was anything even remotely racist about my posts then you are actively part of the problem. Reform will come through open dialogue and through talking things through with good faith, not through lumping anyone that has even a 1% differing view to you as being a racist. This kind of attitude is exactly how you end up with a Donald Trump in power, and if it persists, so too will Trump and his ilk.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

The GIGN will have to intervene soon.

 

[The Other Dean]

It's not clear to me, are you lumping me in with the posters with "surprisingly racist leanings"? I outright stated multiple times that police reform is needed, that cops need to be better trained and better able to de-escalate situations, and that there are deep-seated racial issues in America. Does thinking that someone who violently resisted arrest and then fought police was shot because he violently resisted arrest and then fought police, rather than because he was black, mean I'm a racist?

Is that the world we live in now? Where saying that classifies you as being depressingly racist? If you have no problem with my posts, then I have no problem with yours. But if you're implying there was anything even remotely racist about my posts then you are actively part of the problem. Reform will come through open dialogue and through talking things through with good faith, not through lumping anyone that has even a 1% differing view to you as being a racist. This kind of attitude is exactly how you end up with a Donald Trump in power, and if it persists, so too will Trump and his ilk.

I usually don't like to speak for Sopwiths, but I think I can confidently state on her behalf that she wasn't referring to you at all. Not too sure why you assumed that.


Anyway, have to shoot off now but just quickly on the subject of systemic anti-Black prejudice in the US police force...

.....interesting poll results from 2 weeks ago (by one of the US' best respected polling bodies) showed for the first time that a majority of Americans (57 percent) believe police are more likely to use excessive force against African Americans. When you weigh it all up, it's a fairly staggering shift in opinion.

“It seems we have reached a turning point in public opinion where white Americans are realizing that black Americans face risks when dealing with police that they do not. They may not agree with the violence of recent protests, but many whites say they understand where that anger is coming from,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute

“White and black Americans have consistently reported different personal experiences with the police. But it has only been within the last few years that more whites seem to link this to deeper racial inequities in the country,” said Murray

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_US_060220/

 

[The Other Dean]

French City Rocked by Unrest Blamed on Score-Settling Chechens - The Moscow Times

New tensions on Monday flared in France's eastern city of Dijon after it was rocked by a weekend of unrest blamed on Chechens seeking vengeance for an assault on a teenager.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Crazy scenes out of Dijon as Heavily Armed Chechen gangs have been shooting at African gangs.. wild Wild West.

I just hope neither side resorts to using mustard gas. :stern look

 

[B4Bear]

SA Police punch man during arrest

South Australia Police have launched an internal investigation after an officer was filmed appearing to punch an Aboriginal man on the ground during an arrest last night.

www.news.com.au

It is like there are people who think "how can I make a bad situation worse". Should be fired for stupidity alone.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

I usually don't like to speak for Sopwiths, but I think I can confidently state on her behalf that she wasn't referring to you at all. Not too sure why you assumed that.


Anyway, have to shoot off now but just quickly on the subject of systemic anti-Black prejudice in the US police force...

.....interesting poll results from 2 weeks ago (by one of the US' best respected polling bodies) showed for the first time that a majority of Americans (57 percent) believe police are more likely to use excessive force against African Americans. When you weigh it all up, it's a fairly staggering shift in opinion.

“It seems we have reached a turning point in public opinion where white Americans are realizing that black Americans face risks when dealing with police that they do not. They may not agree with the violence of recent protests, but many whites say they understand where that anger is coming from,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute

“White and black Americans have consistently reported different personal experiences with the police. But it has only been within the last few years that more whites seem to link this to deeper racial inequities in the country,” said Murray

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_US_060220/

The Ferby post that Sopwiths quoted was in response to one of my posts, and Ferby wasn't happy with my post, so I wondered if that was one of the posts to which Sopwiths was referring. As I said, if she has no issue with my posts, then I have no issues with hers. It's just a real s***-show over there that does no-one any good, so I understand emotions are high. I completely understand that for Ferby (and possibly Sopwiths - I don't know her background), this is an issue that strikes very close to home and my intention has never been to tell people how to feel, rather to say let's all aim to work together and fix issues rather than play up to the us-vs-them mentality that pretty much all politicians want people to have.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It's not clear to me, are you lumping me in with the posters with "surprisingly racist leanings"?

Sopwiths would find racism in a recipe for vegetable soup.

This doesn't mean that it has any rational relevance.

 

[Sopwiths North]

It's not clear to me, are you lumping me in with the posters with "surprisingly racist leanings"? I outright stated multiple times that police reform is needed, that cops need to be better trained and better able to de-escalate situations, and that there are deep-seated racial issues in America. Does thinking that someone who violently resisted arrest and then fought police was shot because he violently resisted arrest and then fought police, rather than because he was black, mean I'm a racist?

Is that the world we live in now? Where saying that classifies you as being depressingly racist? If you have no problem with my posts, then I have no problem with yours. But if you're implying there was anything even remotely racist about my posts then you are actively part of the problem. Reform will come through open dialogue and through talking things through with good faith, not through lumping anyone that has even a 1% differing view to you as being a racist. This kind of attitude is exactly how you end up with a Donald Trump in power, and if it persists, so too will Trump and his ilk.

No, I wouldn't put you on that list based on your posting. You do seem a bit reactionary though to the idea of systemic racism existing within the police, and I couldn't help but notice at the time that you consistently supported posts by Tas and K4E that espoused the view that there is no systemic racism in policing because hey, they hire black cops, and it must just be a few bad apples.

Plus, you posted some fairly critical and judgemental comments that also contained misinformation about how the incident of Rayshad Brooks played out. He didn't "violently resist" police. He grabbed a taser and then ran. I watched the footage. He threw his arm back for a split second from about 30 feet away, and then he kept running. They shot him in the back and killed him.

And then you had a go at ferball, who, as a person of colour, is someone I view as far more qualified than any white person to describe what constitutes racism.

But you seem to be assuming right off the bat that I'm talking about you, so I'm not sure what that says.

Anyways, I'm not here to fight with anyone. Yes, the problem with police is inappropriate training. It's also systemic racism. It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both. Police culture lends itself to violence, and violence is rooted in power relations, and racism is an exercise of power. All of these things are systemic problems within police.

 

[Tarka_Dal]

Jean Luc Simpson posted a link under another name ages ago re the bold. A former CIA operative who worked in Afghanistan during the GWOT joined the US police force and wrote an article about it.

The major point he made was the complete absence of police de escalation. They aren't trained in it and are actively encouraged to escalate not de escalate.

The cops are the authority of the state so they never back down, the never de escalate and they never walk away. The state doesn't work that way. It doesn't allow its authority to be challenged.

Re the italic bit. Why would you believe that? Given the killings by cops in the US. Hundreds, sometimes Thousands of black men are shot by cops in the US every year and have been for decades. The vast majority of those shootings haven't inspired this rioting because everyone knows they are justified shootings. Involving people with serious weaponry. It's the murders that are never punished that inspires rioting etc. look at Palm Island or Maquarie Fields in Australia.

Nothing has changed since Rodney Brown with the possible exception that he might not have survived today.

I love the way people who aren't black are banging on about how racism has nothing to do with this.

What the fu** would youse know about it.

It's like that Maj inspired with the White hand holding the black hand to stop it falling.

It's a nice sentiment in terms of making ignorant people feel good about themselves but it's an outright lie.

No one held Maj up, he dropped into the river and was very lucky to survive, and the media (fronted by white people) in the lead up to the incident did the opposite.

There's maybe two or three other regular posters on this board who might have enough of a clue to make reasonable comments about what is happening the rest have NFI.

Sounds like to me that anyone with a contrary opinion to your own has 'NFI'.

Also, the guy's name was Rodney King. Pretty simple fact.

 

[Snake_Baker]

And then you had a go at ferball, who, as a person of colour, is someone I view as far more qualified than any white person to describe what constitutes racism.

I have my differences with ferb, but he doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who gets about pre-empting everything he states with ".....as a person of color....".

That stuff generally emanates from the socio-political devious and manipulative.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

No, I wouldn't put you on that list based on your posting. You do seem a bit reactionary though to the idea of systemic racism existing within the police, and I couldn't help but notice at the time that you consistently supported posts by Tas and K4E that espoused the view that there is no systemic racism in policing because hey, they hire black cops, and it must just be a few bad apples.

Plus, you posted some fairly critical and judgemental comments that also contained misinformation about how the incident of Rayshad Brooks played out. He didn't "violently resist" police. He grabbed a taser and then ran. I watched the footage. He threw his arm back for a split second from about 30 feet away, and then he kept running. They shot him in the back and killed him.

And then you had a go at ferball, who, as a person of colour, is someone I view as far more qualified than any white person to describe what constitutes racism.

But you seem to be assuming right off the bat that I'm talking about you, so I'm not sure what that says.

Anyways, I'm not here to fight with anyone. Yes, the problem with police is inappropriate training. It's also systemic racism. It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be both. Police culture lends itself to violence, and violence is rooted in power relations, and racism is an exercise of power. All of these things are systemic problems within police.

I liked a number of posts by Tas and K4E because I thought they were well-reasoned posts.

I've watched the video, I don't know what footage you've watched, if that is truly what you saw and you aren't just presenting something to suit your narrative then I assume you haven't seen what he did to escape the cops. But I've watched the whole thing and I saw a man violently wrestle with 2 cops who repeatedly instructed him not to resist, I saw a man punch the cops repeatedly during that tussle, and I watched a man shoot a taser at those police. Should he have been shot? No, I mentioned multiple times that police need to be trained to de-escalate, let him go and get him when he has to try and get his car back. I would be shocked if a white man wasn't shot in exactly the same situation, but I guess people see what they want to see to suit their narrative, you certainly are, and I'm guilty of that too. Maybe we all need to just take a step back and try and view things as neutrally as possible, myself included.

I certainly didn't have a go at Ferby, and he's big and bold enough to bite back at me if he thinks I did. I don't buy in to your narrative (which seems the same as Ferby's) that a person of colour is better placed to describe what constitutes racism. I agree that their lived experiences will anecdotally provide insight I can never have, but for anything more than anecdotal evidence I'd rather defer to statistics. I'm not going to touch that, because I've seen the way some on here responded to some of Tas' stats.

Anyway, I think we're closer than either of us realise. We're both advocating for an end to police brutality, better screening and training of police, and (I assume) a path out of socio-economic constraints that many people of colour face. We're just on different ends of the political spectrum so we see things through different lenses. I suspect we both have better intentions than any grubby vote-seeking politician though.

 

[Sopwiths North]

I liked a number of posts by Tas and K4E because I thought they were well-reasoned posts.

I've watched the video, I don't know what footage you've watched, if that is truly what you saw and you aren't just presenting something to suit your narrative then I assume you haven't seen what he did to escape the cops. But I've watched the whole thing and I saw a man violently wrestle with 2 cops who repeatedly instructed him not to resist, I saw a man punch the cops repeatedly during that tussle, and I watched a man shoot a taser at those police. Should he have been shot? No, I mentioned multiple times that police need to be trained to de-escalate, let him go and get him when he has to try and get his car back. I would be shocked if a white man wasn't shot in exactly the same situation, but I guess people see what they want to see to suit their narrative, you certainly are, and I'm guilty of that too. Maybe we all need to just take a step back and try and view things as neutrally as possible, myself included.

I certainly didn't have a go at Ferby, and he's big and bold enough to bite back at me if he thinks I did. I don't buy in to your narrative (which seems the same as Ferby's) that a person of colour is better placed to describe what constitutes racism. I agree that their lived experiences will anecdotally provide insight I can never have, but for anything more than anecdotal evidence I'd rather defer to statistics. I'm not going to touch that, because I've seen the way some on here responded to some of Tas' stats.

Anyway, I think we're closer than either of us realise. We're both advocating for an end to police brutality, better screening and training of police, and (I assume) a path out of socio-economic constraints that many people of colour face. We're just on different ends of the political spectrum so we see things through different lenses. I suspect we both have better intentions than any grubby vote-seeking politician though.

Many good points Mr. Nyah. I'm not a big fan of statistics, personally. They do have a place, but I don't feel they are the be all end all, or in any way the definitive authority on something. They also can lend to dehumanising an issue, which at times can be detrimental to actually taking action and finding a solution. That speaks a little bit to what we're seeing now, at least in Canada, with the tired roll out from the politicians of "We have to conduct the studies first". Well, there's been over 6 years and umpteen papers worth of "studies" done and stats gathered on missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls in my country and still nothing has actually been DONE.

Anyways, sorry, that's not a rant aimed at you at all. Peace. Here's to a better world, and soon.

 

[Tarka_Dal]

It just gets worse...

Western Australia's Colonial Brewing Co considers changing name amid Black Lives Matter movement

 

[Snake_Baker]

It just gets worse...

Western Australia's Colonial Brewing Co considers changing name amid Black Lives Matter movement

Smart marketing.

They're a business marketing to young idiots who would actually buy beer solely on it's perceived socio-political standing.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of these people.

 

[DesertRoo]

if the state libs weren’t in such disarray, this would just about the death knock for the next decade..

 

[B4Bear]

if the state libs weren’t in such disarray, this would just about the death knock for the next decade..

And that ladies and gentlemen is how you do it. Leadership 101, make the hard decision, have a mea culpa and move on.

It leaves the opposition no where to go. And then every time some irregular behaviour comes to light from the Liberals they can turn it back on to them.

 

[DesertRoo]

And that ladies and gentlemen is how you do it. Leadership 101, make the hard decision, have a mea culpa and move on.

It leaves the opposition no where to go. And then every time some irregular behaviour comes to light from the Liberals they can turn it back on to them.

Um he just said he has no confidence in any of the voting. ergo he doesn’t have any confidence in the members of his party..

As a leader that’s a shocking revelation/statement..

if the libs had any sort of bite, they’d repeat that statement any time a member stood up and spoke in parliament.

 

[Tectonic]

if the state libs weren’t in such disarray, this would just about the death knock for the next decade..

I understand why this sort of thing could bury a political party, but we have been trained to do us only on the corruption when the correct steps are being taken (or at least perceived to be taken) by labour leadership to fix the problem.
Any time corrupt pollies get outed and fired should be a celebration rather than an indictment in my opinion.

The alternative to a full review is just a half assed assessment and I think this is the better way to go

 

[krakouers]

The major point he made was the complete absence of police de escalation. They aren't trained in it and are actively encouraged to escalate not de escalate.

What astounds me looking from the outside is no one (again, don’t know what’s happening) seems to be saying to the officers at the morning briefing “Guys, they are looking for these things to happen, let’s use our common sense and understand we are under the microscope here”

 

[Snake_Baker]

if the state libs weren’t in such disarray, this would just about the death knock for the next decade..

This must have "accidentally" made its way in to the media.

And that ladies and gentlemen is how you do it. Leadership 101, make the hard decision, have a mea culpa and move on.

It leaves the opposition no where to go. And then every time some irregular behaviour comes to light from the Liberals they can turn it back on to them.

 

[DesertRoo]

I understand why this sort of thing could bury a political party, but we have been trained to do us only on the corruption when the correct steps are being taken (or at least perceived to be taken) by labour leadership to fix the problem.
Any time corrupt pollies get outed and fired should be a celebration rather than an indictment in my opinion.

The alternative to a full review is just a half assed assessment and I think this is the better way to go

Mate they need something that will never happen, an independent oversight committee. Someone who can investigate and hand over findings for prosecution. Both parties need it at federal and state level.