Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

[Merlin007]

We are on different wavelengths here, but I think we largely do agree on the major point.

Clinton was talking about funding, equipping and recruiting for the mujahideen, with some of those recruits years after the war joining the Taliban, which originated as a Pushtun group. They didn’t emerge until 1994, 5 years after the withdrawal and the Soviet defeat.

The US didn’t create it, but they didn’t help with the mujahideen, leaving Pakistan holding the bag and the large amount of arms in the country. I already addressed those and the AQ comments.

Quote:
So there is a very strong argument which is... it wasn't a bad investment in terms of Soviet Union but let's be careful with what we sow... because we will harvest.

“So we then left Pakistan ... We said okay fine you deal with the Stingers that we left all over your country... you deal with the mines that are along the border and... by the way we don't want to have anything to do with you... in fact we're sanctioning you... So we stopped dealing with the Pakistani military and with ISI and we now are making up for a lot of lost time.”


They didn’t declare war on Afghanistan per say, but they declared hostilities against the Taliban as the ruling party of the Afghanistan state, which harboured terrorists. The UN legal article on this is debatable and I appreciate your points on it. I think the US had a decent case for Afghanistan. The Taliban played funny buggers by not handing over other involved associates and continually dragging their feet on handing over Bin Laden. Their human rights abuses alone could have acted as a pretext in hindsight.


As much as I don’t like it? We are supposed to be talking about weak pretexts for joining wars, not whether I liked them. I spent an entire thesis chapter on why our decision to go Vietnam was based on a worse pretext than Afghanistan.

I was agreeing with you by citing how multiple Australian leaders have used weak pretexts to go to war and support the interests of our protector. My query was that does that make them criminals too.

good post; just not sure whether negligence counts as a crime

 

[DesertRoo]

A good read about making money in a losing war, CAI and soft power.

Creative Associates International (CAI): It’s Not Exactly the CIA, But Close Enough

While mercenary armies like Blackwater have at least been subject to inquiry, making the company’s name infamous around the world, Creative Associates International has largely flown under the radar — exactly where the organization’s board wants it to be., Creative Associates International...

www.mintpressnews.com

 

[Ligma]

What do I buy my dad for Father’s Day? Do you guys really want mugs

 

[Thndr]

What do I buy my dad for Father’s Day? Do you guys really want mugs

Obviously an " I survived the Josh Kelly to North thread " printed polo top ...........

Wait ........ " It's Happening " polo with this on it ........

 

[B4Bear]

At least the ****ers showed their hand early.

This is going to be brutal for the civilian population, women and girls in particular.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

What do I buy my dad for Father’s Day? Do you guys really want mugs

Try a gag gift you know he’ll like or something practical that he needs.

 

[Ligma]

Try a gag gift you know he’ll like or something practicable that he needs.

He is a Batman nerd so I brought him a massive phone stand

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

He is a Batman nerd so I brought him a massive phone stand

Most blokes and dads love nerdy stuff. We are big kids at the end of the day.

 

[Hojuman]

He is a Batman nerd so I brought him a massive phone stand

Get him Batwoman.

 

[ferball]

I know this is not going to be popular, or well received (I should be used to that by now), but I feel that you are conflating a few points here.


1. The CIA-backed Mujahideen and Taliban are not the same. The latter emerged after the factional infighting between various Mujahideen factions after they defeated the Soviets. The Taliban had emerged in a Pashtun village around 1994, after being taught in Saudi-style Wahhabi Madrassas colleges and in Pakistan refugee camps. They were backed by Pakistan intelligence. Al-Qaeda emerged in 1988 right towards the end of the Soviet War, therefore, some of it members benefited indirectly from the US programs. Very likely the Saudis and others backed the multinational group too.

The problem was, following the Soviet Union's collapse, Washington could have more effectively pressured Pakistan to tone down the support for Islamic fundamentalism, especially after the rise of the Taliban. Instead, Washington ceded her responsibility and gave Pakistan a sphere of influence in Afghanistan unlimited by any other foreign pressure as well as left 40,000 pissed off Islamic fighters. This led to the exponential growth of terror threats in the 1990s that continue to this day.

2. The Afghanistan commitment was not launched under false pretenses. It was publicly based on failed extradition terms and the ever-so curious relationship between Bin Laden and the Taliban, rather than genuine ass-covering on the US' behalf. It was the Iraq War that really lacked the adequate pretext. Public opinion in Australia leading up to the 2003 Iraq War was actually in favour of intervening oddly enough.

3. We didn't actually suffer any deaths against ISIS, not including the people that ran off to join them.

4. Australia has always fought alongside its great and powerful friends in defence of their interests. Should Cook and Fisher be classed as war criminals for involving us in what was a European generated war (WWI)? Menzies in Korea, Malaya, Borneo or Vietnam due to Commonwealth and Cold War reasons? Keating during the First Gulf War?

Our military commitments since 1945, with the exception of Korea and Vietnam, have generally been minimal because we are trying to minimise causalities and display alliance solidarity in exchange for security, equipment we cannot develop ourselves and a degree of stability.

Don't get me wrong, we should not have been in Afghanistan or Iraq, but Howard is not a war criminal for making the exact same type of decision that many Australian leaders before him have made.

The invasion of Iraq was a war crime.

 

[Ligma]

Most blokes and dads love that nerdy stuff.

Mum always has final say

 

[Ligma]

Get him Batwoman.

I’ll get you that bestie

 

[Hojuman]

I’ll get you that bestie

Catwoman.........puuuurrrrrrrr..........

 

[ferball]

What do I buy my dad for Father’s Day? Do you guys really want mugs

Laphroaig 32 Year Old Islay Single Malt Whisky 700ml

Laphroaig 32 Year Old has a very elegant mouthfeel, well integrated smoke infused with prominent cocoa and plenty of cinnamon spice. The finish is very long, with notes of Christmas cake coming through.

winesellersdirect.com.au

 

[ferball]

A good read about making money in a losing war CAI and soft power.

Creative Associates International (CAI): It’s Not Exactly the CIA, But Close Enough

While mercenary armies like Blackwater have at least been subject to inquiry, making the company’s name infamous around the world, Creative Associates International has largely flown under the radar — exactly where the organization’s board wants it to be., Creative Associates International...

www.mintpressnews.com

This is what disaster capitalism is all about.

Orgs like that.

 

[Hojuman]

This is what disaster capitalism is all about.

Orgs like that.

God Ferb's, the name says it all.

 

[giantroo]

 

[ferball]

More user pays neo lib bullshit.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Get him Batwoman.

I’m more a Harley Quinn man myself.

 

[andana]

Everyone is quick to criticize the Afghan military for folding so easily but what were the US etc doing for 20 years. Nothing effective it appears.

Another win for asymmetric warfare and a motivated opponent.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Everyone is quick to criticize the Afghan military for folding so easily but what were the US etc doing for 20 years. Nothing effective it appears.

Another win for asymmetric warfare and a motivated opponent.

Imposing values on a very conservative religious country was always going to be an issue.




Even if the methodology of Pew would be a bit off with such a rural country, including the difficulties related to data collection, it is clear that the country is deeply religious.

Imagine what rural Afghans with no phones would have told the Pew Research Center...

 

[andana]

Invading any country and telling them how they should live isn't a way to success.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Invading any country and telling them how they should live isn't a way to success.

Organic state-building is a lengthy process and hard enough, let alone doing it to another country.

 

[andana]

lengthy process

More than 20 years clearly

 

[DesertRoo]

Imposing values on a very conservative religious country was always going to be an issue.

To win hearts and minds you always start with philosophy, it’s why all the great empires have worked hand in hand with religion…
They never sold anything different or better way of life, just misery and corruption.