Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

[ferball]

Yes, abusing Marxist conflict theory by altering class to race and combining it with marxist-esque race power dynamics/structures into every single situation, because its use of post-modernism as analytical tool offers nothing practical, is just plain wonderful. They even kept the revolution side of it too. CRT isn't Marxist though, but it launders a lot from it and its lineage trace right back to Critical Legal Studies, which was an offshoot of marxist Critical Theory in the 1930s. The attempt to make it out as an attack on a vague legal definition from the 1980s is from the exact some copybook of true marxism has not been tried yet. It's called praxis.

With a deep sense of sarcasm:

Spoiler

Making everything about skin colour, wonderful, that's never caused any issues ever. We all know MLK's quote on the issue. Real heritage from the civil rights movement there aye, not.

Applying race-centric collective guilt to current and future generations, wonderful, that's never caused any issues either...

Calling an entire race (even through 'white' denotes a number of different ethnic groups) racist is just plain wonderful. Making a person feel like sh*t because they had the sheer nerve to be born with a certain skin colour is going to solve all racism...

Returning race-based segregation, wonderful, that's never caused any issues...

Racial generalisations, wonderful, that's never caused any issues...

The bigotry of soft expectations, that is definitely not based on racial stereotypes and will definitely solve education and salary gaps...

Treating people that they never had a chance because of obscure and undefinable power dynamics is just plain inspiring...

Kendl's, a noted theorist 'inspired' by CRT, quote "The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discriminations," is just plain wonderful...

Using red-guard style struggle sessions in 'diversity and inclusion' workshops, wonderful...

Adopting racial-quotas, wonderful...

Advocating book-burning because they were written by white men, because book-burning has always ended so well...

Tearing down the western-prescribed nuclear family is really going to solve racism and has nothing to do with Marx-esque power structures...

Classing objectivity and timeliness as aspects of white supremacy, yea, because that's totally normal to say.

Using terms like multi-racial whiteness for any 'person of colour' that disagree with CRT, just wonderful...

Any criticisms, call it a dog whistle or simply call them racist without an actual shred of proof.

Imagine actually using the noble cause of anti-racism and abusing it by overtly racist in kind. I have read Bell, Crenshaw, Kendl and co., they are all cut from the same cloth.

You want to defend a set of theories so overtly racist and labels and treats me as a racist purely because of my skin colour, go nuts, but I am done with you and with this thread. It has been made abundantly clear that you have never respected me in the first place if you genuinely believe in CRT's core tenets.

I should have just taken my que and permanently left the site when Sopworths called me a racist for just posting objective facts. Barely anyone here stood up for me or messaged me, not to mention the other misrepresentations and insinuations of racism, sexism and fascism that have accompanied me in these threads from other posters.

Just plain disappointing.

This is like blaming the theory of evolution for the actions of the eugenics movement.

Critical race theory is pretty much anything that examines race as a social construct not a biological one. Its major premise is that the way people think about race is not based in ideas like biology ie black people having dark skin for sun protection reasons, but in social ones ie lazy criminal black people are superpredators and prey on hard working whites so we must use the law punatively in self defense against them.

That last line isn't a pisstake either. Its literally the attitude of US lawmakers and US culture itself less than 30 years ago.

 

[ferball]

View attachment 1266315


Goodness me.

I don't understand. Is he whinging or asking someone to get him one?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

You're right. we've done this literally, and i mean that literally, what feels like a million times. Again, in regards to the ''You want to defend a set of theories so overtly racist and labels and treats me as a racist purely because of my skin colour', it's just not true and you're still collecting the personal with the systemic application of it IMO. But it's been said and done and you shouldn't abandon this thread because of these re-hashed convos. Your contributions are far too interesting, even when i disagree.

Mate, I have read the theories, the articles and critical analyses of it. I know exactly what I am criticizing and I am done with the nuance.

I witnessed and understood its broader features, heritage and systemic effects long before anything personal.

CRT is pure racist drivel. As I said, I am done. I can't post in threads where there is a clear lack of respect and good faith.

 

[Ligma]

Okay cause you guys are the best advice givers I need some advice.

My parents made me get Life360 because of my incident last year, if you don’t know what the app is it basically tracks you. I fking hate it I feel like I’m under constant surveillance and never really get the privacy of going out alone, mind you I text them my movements anyways. I pay for my own stuff like my phone bill. And the shit that pisses me off is that they always say “we trust you but don’t trust others” like if you trust me then why make me have the app. I know when I bring it up they will turn it on me alluding that I’ll be sneaking around everywhere. I’m thinking about telling them when I turn 19.

 

[Pickitt]

Okay cause you guys are the best advice givers I need some advice.

My parents made me get Life360 because of my incident last year, if you don’t know what the app is it basically tracks you. I fking hate it I feel like I’m under constant surveillance and never really get the privacy of going out alone, mind you I text them my movements anyways. I pay for my own stuff like my phone bill. And the sh*t that pisses me off is that they always say “we trust you but don’t trust others” like if you trust me then why make me have the app. I know when I bring it up they will turn it on me alluding that I’ll be sneaking around everywhere. I’m thinking about telling them when I turn 19.

I have it with my mates, but I have a app that changes my location, convinced them in was in Jamaica for like 2 weeks

 

[Val Keating]

It is literally one of the central facets of the ideology he is saying is perfect (nothing wrong, same thing). I can post excerpts from multiple CRT and 'CRT-inspired' journal articles, but I will just go with the below.

View attachment 1266482


What part of the above is consistent with any sense of objective reality.

That’s bloody satire. PayPal me? Jesus.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Mate, I have read the theories, the articles and critical analyses of it. I know exactly what I am criticizing and I am done with the nuance.

I witnessed and understood its broader systemic effects long before anything personal.

CRT is pure racist drivel. As I said, I am done. I can't post in threads where there is a clear lack of respect and good faith.

Again, I completely disagree with you but that's fine. We've done this way too many times. And Ferball saying that he thinks there's nothing wrong with it isn't a personal attack at you. I think everyone here understands that we're interacting with a bunch of people that will have a bunch of different views. Unless explicitly stated, I don't think there's much of a personal attack in stating a disagreement.

----


Anyway, as a general post, like K4e said, this has been done a million times and I know I sure as shit don't want to do it again because I think the people who have had this discussion in the past have made it clear that they're pretty set, including myself, so this is my last post on it. If anyone else wants a short summary of the framework and the arguments for and against it to make up their own mind, then this is a surprisingly good in a nutshell-type piece from the SMH:

Are all white people racist? Why Critical Race Theory has us rattled (smh.com.au)

Personally, I think it's a really interesting framework to analyse racially imbalanced outcomes in systems. However, I also agree that the image alone posted above is utter nonsense, but at the same time a wild misrepresentation of what the framework is actually about. And that's all I've got to say on it because it's a ****ing Saturday night haha.

 

[Val Keating]

This is like blaming the theory of evolution for the actions of the eugenics movement.

Critical race theory is pretty much anything that examines race as a social construct not a biological one. Its major premise is that the way people think about race is not based in ideas like biology ie black people having dark skin for sun protection reasons, but in social ones ie lazy criminal black people are superpredators and prey on hard working whites so we must use the law punatively in self defense against them.

That last line isn't a pisstake either. Its literally the attitude of US lawmakers and US culture itself less than 30 years ago.

Isn’t a big part of critical race theory when in implication that people of colour be placed in positions ahead of those thad have earned the positions through their work?

I’m on board with fixing systemic class issues but they need to be solved long before the classrooms and the workplace.

 

[Val Keating]

You're right. we've done this literally, and i mean that literally, what feels like a million times. Again, in regards to the ''You want to defend a set of theories so overtly racist and labels and treats me as a racist purely because of my skin colour', it's just not true and you're still collecting the personal with the systemic application of it IMO. But it's been said and done and you shouldn't abandon this thread because of these re-hashed convos. Your contributions are far too interesting, even when i disagree.

It sort of is true though. I literally experienced racism for the first time in my life this year because I’m just a white straight male. I know that sounds ridiculous but I it’s true. I was the only male in the ward and I was made to feel uncomfortable because of that.

It goes without saying that I didn’t experience anything like the levels experienced by people of colour or even my Irish ancestors, but it was enough to make me feel unwelcome in the common area.

Got to be careful with this sort of thing not to go to far one way or the other.

 

[ferball]

Isn’t a big part of critical race theory when in implication that people of colour be placed in positions ahead of those thad have earned the positions through their work?

I’m on board with fixing systemic class issues but they need to be solved long before the classrooms and the workplace.

How is that different to abstudy or giving indigenous australians who haven't finished high school access to university that isn't the same pathway as kids doing year 12?

Kids miss out on spots who otherwise would have got them "thru merit".

There are parts of the US where the schooling system and the social system is broken.

And the whole "get thru on merit" based argument is really full of shit. Everybody knows its not what you know but who you know.

 

[Val Keating]

Okay cause you guys are the best advice givers I need some advice.

My parents made me get Life360 because of my incident last year, if you don’t know what the app is it basically tracks you. I fking hate it I feel like I’m under constant surveillance and never really get the privacy of going out alone, mind you I text them my movements anyways. I pay for my own stuff like my phone bill. And the sh*t that pisses me off is that they always say “we trust you but don’t trust others” like if you trust me then why make me have the app. I know when I bring it up they will turn it on me alluding that I’ll be sneaking around everywhere. I’m thinking about telling them when I turn 19.

I don’t know what your situation is but you’re an adult. It’s hard to give advice not knowing you or the decisions you’ve made, but as long as you’re not meeting up with strangers from the internet, smoking the glass bbq then I think you’re ok.

If you’re living under their roof though you need to show respect, your parents probably don’t relax till you’re home. It’s fair that they know where you are.

If you’ve lost their trust along the way you have to build it back, but not through wearing a tracking device, that’ll only last as long as you are tracked.

You need to earn their trust back. Or not. Idk your situation, but I think through paying attention to your posts your parents have your best interest at heart. You’ll grow to appreciate that.

Either way, **** off the tracking situation and prove you can be trusted or that you can’t.

 

[ferball]

It sort of is true though. I literally experienced racism for the first time in my life this year because I’m just a white straight male. I know that sounds ridiculous but I it’s true. I was the only male in the white male in the ward and I was made to feel uncomfortable because of that.

It goes without saying that I didn’t experience anything like the levels experienced by people of colour or even my Irish ancestors, but it was enough to make me feel unwelcome in the common area.

Got to be careful with this sort of thing not to go to far one way or the other.

That is the absolute mildest form of racism you could possibly experience tho. By so far its not funny. I used to fruit picking in the Riverina and would ask local blackfellas where the cops that hung people were then go look for work in other towns.

You were briefly out of your comfort zone for the first time in your life. Imagine what its like for people whose life experience is that. All the time.

Outside of at home with their family there is no "safe zone" where they don't experience worse than what you had to put up with for a little while.

No one should have to put up with that at all, notheless ... I hope what you went thru teaches you a little empathy with people who experience racism all the time. Its a shit thing.

 

[Hojuman]

I don't understand. Is he whinging or asking someone to get him one?

Wondering how aussies will light their homes of an evening.

 

[Val Keating]

How is that different to abstudy or giving indigenous australians who haven't finished high school access to university that isn't the same pathway as kids doing year 12?

Kids miss out on spots who otherwise would have got them "thru merit".

There are parts of the US where the schooling system and the social system is broken.

And the whole "get thru on merit" based argument is really full of sh*t. Everybody knows its not what you know but who you know.

FFS. I don’t know enough about CRT to have a definitive opinion on it. It’s only just come into my orbit. I might get hooked on it or I’ll forget soon enough.

I didn’t know that about abstudy and the rest of it so I can’t answer your question. Honestly it’s like a University in here at times. So many topics get tossed around it’s hard to keep up.

Right now, if you were to twist my arm, I’d say my opinion is that not enough is done at community level with indigenous people, similar to the ancestors of slaves in America.

 

[Ligma]

I don’t know what your situation is but you’re an adult. It’s hard to give advice not knowing you or the decisions you’ve made, but as long as you’re not meeting up with strangers from the internet, smoking the glass bbq then I think you’re ok.

If you’re living under their roof though you need to show respect, your parents probably don’t relax till you’re home. It’s fair that they know where you are.

If you’ve lost their trust along the way you have to build it back, but not through wearing a tracking device, that’ll only last as long as you are tracked.

You need to earn their trust back. Or not. Idk your situation, but I think through paying attention to your posts your parents have your best interest at heart. You’ll grow to appreciate that.

Either way, fu** off the tracking situation and prove you can be trusted or that you can’t.

Whoops lol

Id like to think I have gained their trust back as they always say “we trust you but not strangers”.

like I tell them when I get on busses and when I get off them, when I finish uni stuff like that. Sometimes I just want a sneaky link LET A GIRL HAVE FUN AND BE A NORMAL TEEN WHO WANTS TO GET PLEASURE.

I asked my parents if they would think about deleting it and I was like to my mum “do you not trust me” and then accused me of trying to manipulate her then when I asked again she said alright. My dad on the other hand doesn’t really want to. I both told them I’m deleting the app when I’m 19.

 

[ferball]

Wondering how aussies will light their homes of an evening.

That is the context of that quote?

Wow.


I dunno what else to say.

 

[Val Keating]

That is the absolute mildest form of racism you could possibly experience tho. By so far its not funny. I used to fruit picking in the Riverina and would ask local blackfellas where the cops that hung people were then go look for work in other towns.

You were briefly out of your comfort zone for the first time in your life. Imagine what its like for people whose life experience is that. All the time.

Outside of at home with their family there is no "safe zone" where they don't experience worse than what you had to put up with for a little while.

No one should have to put up with that at all, notheless ... I hope what you went thru teaches you a little empathy with people who experience racism all the time. Its a sh*t thing.

Jesus Christ, I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t comparing it to the type of racism you describe above. I wasn’t really that bothered by it, except that I just realised it was racist, and tbh I actually didn’t care about how I felt (**** all really) I wanted the other people to realise they were going too far the other way.

FFS Ferbs as if I’d compare it to a lynching

 

[Val Keating]

Whoops lol

Id like to think I have gained their trust back as they always say “we trust you but not strangers”.

like I tell them when I get on busses and when I get off them, when I finish uni stuff like that. Sometimes I just want a sneaky link LET A GIRL HAVE FUN AND BE A NORMAL TEEN WHO WANTS TO GET PLEASURE.

I asked my parents if they would think about deleting it and I was like to my mum “do you not trust me” and then accused me of trying to manipulate her then when I asked again she said alright. My dad on the other hand doesn’t really want to. I both told them I’m deleting the app when I’m 19.

I’m literally the worst person you could take advice from about this. At 17 I made my parents treat me as an adult because I was paying board and left home at 18.

We’re from different worlds.

 

[ferball]

Jesus Christ, I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t comparing it to the type of racism you describe above. I wasn’t really that bothered by it, except that I just realised it was racist, and tbh I actually didn’t care about how I felt (fu** all really) I wanted the other people to realise they were going too far the other way.

FFS Ferbs as if I’d compare it to a lynching

Have you ever heard of Jane Elliot and her blue-eyed/brown-eyed thing?

 

[Ligma]

Jesus Christ, I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t comparing it to the type of racism you describe above. I wasn’t really that bothered by it, except that I just realised it was racist, and tbh I actually didn’t care about how I felt (fu** all really) I wanted the other people to realise they were going too far the other way.

FFS Ferbs as if I’d compare it to a lynching

I get ur frustration when doing this stuff with him

 

[Shinboner1]

Whoops lol

Id like to think I have gained their trust back as they always say “we trust you but not strangers”.

like I tell them when I get on busses and when I get off them, when I finish uni stuff like that. Sometimes I just want a sneaky link LET A GIRL HAVE FUN AND BE A NORMAL TEEN WHO WANTS TO GET PLEASURE.

I asked my parents if they would think about deleting it and I was like to my mum “do you not trust me” and then accused me of trying to manipulate her then when I asked again she said alright. My dad on the other hand doesn’t really want to. I both told them I’m deleting the app when I’m 19.

Maybe look to move out soon and not be under their influence anymore.
I don't know your experiences and obviously your parents are just trying to be protective.
Being a little older you can see both sides to the story and its a really tough situation to be in for both parties.
You an only child Ligma?

 

[Ligma]

Maybe look to move out soon and not be under their influence anymore.
I don't know your experiences and obviously your parents are just trying to be protective.
Being a little older you can see both sides to the story and its a really tough situation to be in for both parties.
You an only child Ligma?

Nah I have a brother, like sometimes I like it because I can track my dad when he is picking up dinner lol but sometimes i absolutely hate it

 

[Val Keating]

Have you ever heard of Jane Elliot and her blue-eyed/brown-eyed thing?

Nah I don’t think I do but I think I know what you’re getting at.

I’m guessing you’re referring to some sort of social experiment like Oprah did back in the day where she treated members of her audience differently depending on their eye colour.

 

[ferball]

Nah I don’t think I do but I think I know what you’re getting at.

I’m guessing you’re referring to some sort of social experiment like Oprah did back in the day where she treated members of her audience differently depending on their eye colour.

She would have taken that directly off her. But i doubt it was done right on Oprah.

Brown eyed people are not discriminated against, but further to that they are told they are better and given privileges in class. And often they internalise this as something they are entitled to and start acting like arse holes.

So not only do the blue eyed people develop empathy and understanding, the brown eyed people behave like campaigners. Hopefully they learn something more than just how to do that from from the whole exercise.

 

[koshari]

Sad to hear the coodabeens wont be on abc radio next year