Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

[Val Keating]

The stakes are massive though. He was the most highly decorated serving soldier in Australia and his entire legal case is bankrolled by one of this country's biggest media oligarchs.

But the best bit is how he's decided to sue for defo to clear his name, and the resulting proceedings are simply serving to show everyone how all that defamatory reporting was only scratching the surface of what a nuclear-grade arseh*le he really is.

Yeah I get it. I’m just not surprised. That’s not to say all high end military killers in the SAS are psychopaths, but there’s always a few. I’ve heard Jocko talk about it being an issue with the SEAL’s, every now and then he’d recognise one of their people was a psychopath and he’d pull the commander aside and tell them they had a psychopath in their team and they’d have to remove them. He’d put this down as a failure in leadership in not recognising it.

Tbh as a civilian I struggle to judge these people because I have no idea what they went through and they are created by the military. IMO we can’t just create these ultimate killers and then expect them to behave normally once their not fighting age.

Regardless of what else he’s done he earned those medals. It’s a bit of a conundrum as to what to do with these people.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Regardless of what else he’s done he earned those medals.

I'm no expert on these things, but I would've thought committing war crimes precludes a candidate from earning military honours.

I take your point on the rest of it though.

 

[Val Keating]

I'm no expert on these things, but I would've thought committing war crimes precludes a candidate from earning military honours.

Yeah and committing war crimes should preclude someone from the Nobel peace prize but here we are

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

IMO we can’t just create these ultimate killers and then expect them to behave normally once their not fighting age.

I don't really think that is an unreasonable expectation TBH

 

[Val Keating]

I don't really think that is an unreasonable expectation TBH

Tell that to all the vets who struggle once they’re back. Can’t begin to imagine what it’s like without doing it. My grandfather hung himself after retiring from the army. He served in Korea and Vietnam. I don’t think civilians can judge these people.

 

[Makeshift Park]

That must have been horrible for your family VK, I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[Val Keating]

That must have been horrible for your family VK, I'm sorry to hear that.

I didn’t know him so I don’t really feel anything. He was pretty decorated but refused all his medals. Something obviously bothered him about what happened.

 

[Ligma]

Val Keating i joined the student union and idk what they even do

 

[Val Keating]

Val Keating i joined the student union and idk what they even do

Go on strike?

 

[SpiderBurton22]

Val Keating i joined the student union and idk what they even do

Full of Feminists & Communists.

You'll be right.

 

[Ligma]

Full of Feminists & Communists.

You'll be right.

What’s wrong with feminism?

 

[SpiderBurton22]

What’s wrong with feminism?

Nothing

 

[Ligma]

Nothing

That’s what I thought alpha male.

I signed up for rowing, I don’t know anything about rowing at all.

It’s so sad they didn’t have athletics or cycling

 

[SpiderBurton22]

That’s what I thought alpha male.

I signed up for rowing, I don’t know anything about rowing at all.

It’s so sad they didn’t have athletics or cycling

Rowing, where do you do that?

On the Yarra?

 

[Ligma]

Rowing, where do you do that?

On the Yarra?

Yep and I’m scared I’ll tip the thing over

 

[SpiderBurton22]

Yep and I’m scared I’ll tip the thing over

Aren't most rowers mega tall? You're in for a world of pain.

Do they have special boats for little people, cos I might join you.

 

[Ligma]

Aren't most rowers mega tall? You're in for a world of pain.

Do they have special boats for little people, cos I might join you.

KMS

 

[SpiderBurton22]

I actually like the rowing machine at the gym but would need to wear 2 life vests cos I can't swim to save myself

 

[Groucho]

Aren't most rowers mega tall? You're in for a world of pain.

Do they have special boats for little people, cos I might join you.

Aren’t you , like, 210cm?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Tell that to all the vets who struggle once they’re back. Can’t begin to imagine what it’s like without doing it. My grandfather hung himself after retiring from the army. He served in Korea and Vietnam. I don’t think civilians can judge these people.

Oh, don't get me wrong, for 18 months in my job I dealt with a whole bunch of vets who had been invalided out of the various defence forces. The lack of support is appalling and the stories they would tell me would make your hair stand on end. Sit down to watch the footy on a Friday night and because I was working from home and my phone forwarded to my mobile, I'd get a call from a bloke saying he was planning to top himself and he'd just intended to leave me a message. My job is not counselling or anything remotely like that, and I spent the whole weekend fretting about it. Luckily he was fine and apologetic come Monday.

However, it doesn't give B. R-S or anyone else a free pass to assault, bully and victimise others. That sort of behaviour can and should be judged in civil society. We know that perpetrators of sexual abuse are frequently former victims but they receive very little sympathy or mitigation. Equally people in other occupations can be traumatised by their experiences, yet we don't expect them to escape judgement if they commit offences as a result of that trauma.

If the Defence Force really believe it is necessary and beneficial to create "high end military killers", then they also need to consider how they will transition these people back into civilian life.

 

[ferball]

I didn’t know him so I don’t really feel anything. He was pretty decorated but refused all his medals. Something obviously bothered him about what happened.

I've know a few vietnam vets over the years. War is obviously a very shit thing for everyone involved.

 

[Val Keating]

Oh, don't get me wrong, for 18 months in my job I dealt with a whole bunch of vets who had been invalided out of the various defence forces. The lack of support is appalling and the stories they would tell me would make your hair stand on end. Sit down to watch the footy on a Friday night and because I was working from home and my phone forwarded to my mobile, I'd get a call from a bloke saying he was planning to top himself and he'd just intended to leave me a message. My job is not counselling or anything remotely like that, and I spent the whole weekend fretting about it. Luckily he was fine and apologetic come Monday.

However, it doesn't give B. R-S or anyone else a free pass to assault, bully and victimise others. That sort of behaviour can and should be judged in civil society. We know that perpetrators of sexual abuse are frequently former victims but they receive very little sympathy or mitigation. Equally people in other occupations can be traumatised by their experiences, yet we don't expect them to escape judgement if they commit offences as a result of that trauma.

If the Defence Force really believe it is necessary and beneficial to create "high end military killers", then they also need to consider how they will transition these people back into civilian life.

Jeez that’s rough.

“If the Defence Force really believe it is necessary and beneficial to create "high end military killers", then they also need to consider how they will transition these people back into civilian life.”

As long as there’s wars then we need these people.

You’re right that its the defence forces responsibility to try and assimilate them back into society. I wonder though, is it even possible for some people to come back? I think there’s always going to be some that can’t no matter how much counselling and debriefing they have.

I get where you’re coming from with sexual predators often being victims themselves but I don’t think it holds up in this context. The government isn’t taking young adults and turning them into sex offenders, the government is taking young adults and turning them into killers for the benefit for the country. Especially with regards to the elite soldiers like the SAS who often have to do horrific things that we’ll never know about.

What I’m asking is what to do with them once they’ve gone over the edge? Is it fair to turn them into monsters for our benefit and then just write them off? Seems wrong to me.

 

[ferball]

If the Defence Force really believe it is necessary and beneficial to create "high end military killers", then they also need to consider how they will transition these people back into civilian life.

 

[Val Keating]

It’s why I find drone warfare so disturbing. The people operating them are just watching on a screen so there’s a level of disconnect with reality when they’ve literally just blown up an apartment building full of civilians to get one potential target yet still have no idea what the carnage they’ve just caused feels like.

 

[Makeshift Park]

The government isn’t taking young adults and turning them into sex offenders, the government is taking young adults and turning them into killers for the benefit for the country. Especially with regards to the elite soldiers like the SAS who often have to do horrific things that we’ll never know about.

The idea that we're desensitizing young men to brutality and amoral violence would make a bit more sense if we had joined a single worthwhile war in my lifetime