Play Nice Random Chat Thread VII

[ferball]

Mate, I'm surprised by this. You know how vaccinations work. The reason that boosters exist for this and many other illnesses is that they can't pump you full of a one-off dose that would protect you for years because that dose would do more harm than good in the short term.

It was real science applied to a developing and serious situation. Sure, there were missteps and incorrect decisions made along the way due to the high learning curve (given the virus was a novel one, i.e. not previously present in our immune systems), but it certainly wasn't pseudoscience.

So during the vaccine rollout the initial two doses were rushed. Instead of a six month period between doses that period was shortened to six weeks in some cases. Then there were calls for a booster after six months. There's another dose marketed to the entire population straight up.

Three doses over a year or two and a an infection would have been reasonable. Unlike other covid vaccines the vaccines efficacy was measured, well marketed using anti body titres after six months instead of memory cell titres (which was how AZ measured their vaccines efficiacy.) The decrease in ab titres after six months is a natural process and part of the functioning of a healthy immune system that is not wasting resources on unnecessary abs when low concentrations of abs and memory cells are what makes a secondary response happen.

We were constantly told this decrease in ab led to a decrease in immunity even tho this is the process that is sposed to happen and doesn't decrease immunity at all if memory cells are present as a result of the vaccination program.

(I'm talking about Pfizer here, not all of the vaccines that were developed or vaccination itself generally.)

Their vaccine was developed as a two dose vaccine and they said up until april 2021 that would be enough to stimulate an appropriate immune response. AFter this their claims of the necessity of a third dose started and led to the resignations of the heads of vaccine approval in the FDA in the US because they felt such a response was unnecessary (in the general population) after Bourla went to the white house to lobby for ongoing boosters.

All the while cookers carrying on distracted people from that but to me its incredible that the people who ran the FDA vaccination approval process were the ones who resigned over this. Its seems the regulator was compromised on the basis of of an unscientific marketing program.

We all know that the US has one of the least effective medical systems in the world in terms of looking after its population properly and that big pharma companies have got away with constant breaches or have captured the regulatory system to the point its ineffective in many cases but this was the worst example. Even worse than the regulatory failure that led to the opioid epidemic in some ways I reckon.

Meanwhile we still don't know the contents of the pfizer contract with Australia, apart from the fact the company was indemnified against damages caused by its product. In fact a little transparency might even have changed my attitude.

This isn't the thread for it but that's one of several issues I have with that company and its product rollout during the pandemic.

I have other problems with the whole thing, like the reports AZ charged the EU half the price per dose that it charged South Africa. But that's for another thread and maybe a day when I've got the time and motivation to get all those issues together in one post.

 

[Ligma]

A cylinder misfire on my beloved golf

 

[Val Keating]

It is reasonable to be sceptical, indeed good science is developed from a basis of scepticism. But it does require an understanding of the issues, and there is a lot of mass scepticism around this area due to social media influences.

You second sentence above is absolutely reasonable, and a huge step back from "the vaccine doesn’t stop anyone from catching the virus, spreading the virus or getting sick from the virus", which is just completely wrong and bordering on cookerism.

I get that Big Pharma are a popular target these days, because they're such bad guys, amirite? But just think if you or any of your loved ones has ever relied upon medication to improve, even save, their lives. We all know people in this situation. Such medications were developed by the pharmaceutical companies. Sure, there has been some bad corporate behaviours (price gouging, falsifying trials, withholding data, etc.) but such behaviour is essentially at the periphery of the industry (like in many industries), whilst the core of the pharmaceuticals industry is to develop 'drugs' (including medications, vaccinations, etc.) to save and enhance lives. Without them, we'd be back in the dark ages with an average lifespan of about 30 years.

I get that but it’s hard to look past, oxycontin, Tulcum powder, thalidomide and the list goes on and on.

However I do appreciate the scientists behind the advances in medicine, the good outweighs the bad.

It’s just that companies like J&J, Perdue etc only have an incentive to make money.

So are you still taking your booster shots? I’m not. Don’t see the benefit. I take a flu shot every year and haven’t had the flu since

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I get that but it’s hard to look past, oxycontin, Tulcum powder, thalidomide and the list goes on and on.

However I do appreciate the scientists behind the advances in medicine, the good outweighs the bad.

It’s just that companies like J&J, Perdue etc only have an incentive to make money.

So are you still taking your booster shots? I’m not. Don’t see the benefit. I take a flu shot every year and haven’t had the flu since

I had a couple of Covid boosters and am willing to take another before I next travel if my doctor recommends it - he didn't last time (middle of this year). I also get the flu shot at work each year.

 

[Engimal v3]

I asked the doctor to blast 5 COVID vaccines directly into my arse because I'm a Labor voter

 

[blackshadow]

I asked the doctor to blast 5 COVID vaccines directly into my arse because I'm a Labor voter

I had mine in the eye of my dick for the tumescent effect.

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[Val Keating]

Gervais has become cards against humanity. Trying to be offensive when it’s just inoffensive unfunny boredom.


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I really enjoyed his special. One of the best of the year.

 

[Val Keating]

I asked the doctor to blast 5 COVID vaccines directly into my arse because I'm a Labor voter

I had mine in the eye of my dick for the tumescent effect.

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Your doctors are different to mine.

 

[blackshadow]

Your doctors are different to mine.

You wouldn’t believe what she prescribes when I ask for the good stuff…


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[Val Keating]

You wouldn’t believe what she prescribes when I ask for the good stuff…


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I know. Mine tells me that I don’t need 4 prostrate exams a month and insists that two fingers is quite enough.

 

[ferball]

I get that Big Pharma are a popular target these days, because they're such bad guys, amirite? But just think if you or any of your loved ones has ever relied upon medication to improve, even save, their lives. We all know people in this situation. Such medications were developed by the pharmaceutical companies. Sure, there has been some bad corporate behaviours (price gouging, falsifying trials, withholding data, etc.) but such behaviour is essentially at the periphery of the industry (like in many industries), whilst the core of the pharmaceuticals industry is to develop 'drugs' (including medications, vaccinations, etc.) to save and enhance lives. Without them, we'd be back in the dark ages with an average lifespan of about 30 years.

Vaccination and medicines aren't the issue.

Predatory business practises are the issue and they are not at the periphery of the industry they are common.

Its difficult to find accurate data on falsification data but it appears high from limited methods of detecting the falsification. there is a range between dodgy but probably not serious practises and outright falsification and fraud (which does seem alot less common) but even the dodgy but not necessarily malicious practises undermine the integrity of scientific studies and of the concept of science based medicine. The BJM report on the falsification of Pfizer data was serious tho, considering how much money Pfizer made out of their product.

Ventavia wasn't responsible for all of their field testing but all of its results should have been audited and the other field testing results should have been investigated.

But the FDA isn't well resourced enough and relies more on contributions from the organisations it monitors than the US government for funding. About two thirds of the FDAs funding for monitoring new medications for human use come from the people who will benefit from those drugs being okayed by the FDA. It seems like a massive conflict of interest.

It also seems the agency is under funded in terms of its ability to effectively cover all of its responsibilities. So its under funded and dependent on the organisations its sposed to regulate for significant amounts of its operating budget.

The FDA prevented the use of thalidomide in the US because it wasn't happy with with testing results and felt they didn't show Thalidomide was safe. That decision was right with hindsight. Compare what happened in the US to other places like Australia and Europe.

Now that the funding is based around fees from users there is a quicker regulation process, which users like because their products are available sooner. This benefits patients in many cases too cos their access to new medicine is facilitated. But during this time there has been a large increase in post trial complications arising from new drugs, possibly stuff that would have been detected in a longer more rigorous process.

Perhaps the biggest example is the rate of opioid addiction and overdose in the US and a result of a decade or more of over prescription and a massive regualtory failure. As someone who's lost friends to heroin overdose and seen the toll heroin addiction takes on an addict's family (including myself) and friends i've always been in favour of its legalisation but what happened in the US over the last 20 years certainly makes me stop and think about how something like that would work.

I guess one issue with the US is their lack of universal health care and the fact the health care industry is seen as just another industry instead of an essential component of a functioning society.

But yeah I think you'll find that the issues you mentioned that I bolded are far more prevalent than a reasonable person would hope or expect them to be.

 

[koshari]

anyone smashed a bag of crossies yet??

fwiw i prefer to call em pagen fertility buns, after all the christions stole em anyway,

Pagans worshipped Eostre, the goddess of dawn and spring. As spring arrived, the pagans would celebrate a month long festival of the transitioning time from winter entering into spring. This festival saw the Saxons making buns marked with a cross, which represented the four phases of the moon, to offer to the goddess

 

[koshari]

rism.

I get that Big Pharma are a popular target these days, because they're such bad guys, amirite? But just think if you or any of your loved ones has ever relied upon medication to improve, even save, their lives. We all know people in this situation. Such medications were developed by the pharmaceutical companies. Sure, there has been some bad corporate behaviours (price gouging, falsifying trials, withholding data, etc.) but such behaviour is essentially at the periphery of the industry (like in many industries), whilst the core of the pharmaceuticals industry is to develop 'drugs' (including medications, vaccinations, etc.) to save and enhance lives. Without them, we'd be back in the dark ages with an average lifespan of about 30 years.

i love a big parma!

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

i lobe a big parma!

View attachment 1879406

On top of the chips. You sir, are a wise connoisseur.


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[koshari]

whats the plan for the last night of the year, being old f*rts we will prolly be in bed b4 midnight but not before devouring a kilo of prawns and 2 trays of slow smoked ribs washed down with some home brew pacific ales and a minikeg of with some friends. kickoff round 3.

,

 

[Val Keating]

Dave Chapelle’s new special has dropped

 

[giantroo]

 

[rickety]

I know. Mine tells me that I don’t need 4 prostrate exams a month and insists that two fingers is quite enough.

Not sure it's right for the Dad Joke thread, but you've just reminded me - have I ever told you that my Uncle is the Worlds worst ever ventriloquist?

He stuck 2 fingers up my bum and told me not to say a word!

 

[Ichiro #51]

We are currently in Fukui prefecture (next to Ishikawa) for a holiday. My wife and I were in a convenience store, the tremors were strong enough to throw shit of the shelves, break glass etc. Scary as ****. My son was in the sauna at our hotel!

 

[Ligma]

My car was taken into VW today and they said it will maybe have to stay in there for a week as they’ve got to send documents to VW Germany

Hopefully we can come to a goodwill agreement as the 118tsi engines have an extremely bad history when it comes to misfires and faulty cylinder rings.

 

[koshari]

dogs not impressed,

 

[giantroo]

Usually these things come in threes...

 

[Del191229]

This is excellent.

Only a few years ago, I thought this was where we were headed. Forget 1.5C or 2C – we were destined for 4C, 5C or 6C and there was nothing we could do about it. Most people still think that this is the path we’re following. Thankfully, it’s not.

I thought most of us were going to die from the climate crisis. I was wrong

In an extract from her book Not the End of the World, data scientist Hannah Ritchie explains how her work taught her that there are more reasons for hope than despair about climate change

www.theguardian.com

 

[koshari]

Usually these things come in threes...

amazing there were no fatalaties!

 

[andana]

How did almost 400 people safely evacuate burning Japan Airlines jet after Haneda Airport crash?

The Japan Airlines jet collided with a Coast Guard plane when landing at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport on Tuesday after flying in from the northern city of Sapporo.

www.channelnewsasia.com