Discussion Random Discussion

[StCicatriz]

i missed it what happened in sydney?

 

[StFly]

i missed it what happened in sydney?

Apparently someone who knows how to use radio waves demanded something that wasn't better traffic conditions or associated with a parade, but was near a body of water.

Then toys were thrown out of cots and people commented on free horse racing advertising.

 

[Sir Skid]

Preuss to melb to sit behind a younger Gawn?
What the? How is this better for him than waiting behind Goldy?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

i noticed the other day talk about limiting the number of alcohol refferances during footy games .. the stats showed that during the AFL grand final .7 advertisments for alcohol were visible every minute of the game .. thats pretty full on .. the NRL grand final was even worse with it being close to 3 visible adverts every minute ....
personally i think the bigger blight on the game is the over saturation of gambling advertisments during sports ... during the prelim final i did a quick count an there were 25 referance's to gambling in the pregame show to the game ..

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

wow just when you thought Aussie politics had hit rock bottom Camberra does it again ... Phanson's motion against anti white racism and "its ok to be white" on just got defeted in parliment ... almost half the bloody parliment sided with her .. WTAF!
so Corbin comes out and says it was an error from the liberal party staffers that got the wrong information to the the liberal party ....
ummmm hello are these guys just voting on what the staffers tell them to by email ? do they not actually read what it is they are passing ? FFS imagine if this was for something important ... either a) the libs are lying and realised their vote for Phanson was not well recieved so tried to back out of it (frigging bad signs) or b) they litterally are that incompetent that they cant even get a message to their own party correct (even worse)...

 

[Yawkey way]

wow just when you thought Aussie politics had hit rock bottom Camberra does it again ... Phanson's motion against anti white racism and "its ok to be white" on just got defeted in parliment ... almost half the bloody parliment sided with her .. WTAF!
so Corbin comes out and says it was an error from the liberal party staffers that got the wrong information to the the liberal party ....
ummmm hello are these guys just voting on what the staffers tell them to by email ? do they not actually read what it is they are passing ? FFS imagine if this was for something important ... either a) the libs are lying and realised their vote for Phanson was not well recieved so tried to back out of it (frigging bad signs) or b) they litterally are that incompetent that they cant even get a message to their own party correct (even worse)...

I assume that’s Mathias Cormann, I was a bit confused when you mentioned Corbin.

It’s just a lot of carry on over nothing, someone mentioned the term is linked to the alt right and they bottled it.

A statement against racism? Have there been any other statements that address other forms of racism?.

What other than a symbolic gesture would this have achieved anyway.

 

[MUFKilda]

What system of health care do you have over there? Is it a mix of private and public provision? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have a National Health Service, as we do, whereby everyone pays in, on a compulsory basis via earnings, and the system is fully publicly delivered?

 

[Yawkey way]

What system of health care do you have over there? Is it a mix of private and public provision? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have a National Health Service, as we do, whereby everyone pays in, on a compulsory basis via earnings, and the system is fully publicly delivered?

We have the public health system which is in part funded by a compulsory Medicare levy currently 2% if you also carry private health insurance, it’s higher if you don’t.

Basically you can turn up at a GP and in most cases be bulk billed and pay nothing, you can also turn up or be referred to public hospitals and be treated for free.

Their are private hospitals and some GPs and virtually all specialists charge what they like, you make a claim on Medicare and get back what is known as the standard fee. This standard fee is set by the government and the gap can be minimal or a lot depending of the specialist and the type of treatment.

Private health covers accomodation in a private hospital, dental, physio, optical etc. then Medicare covers 75% of the scheduled fee on surgery and private covers 25 %. You can be out of pocket for large sums in the private system.

Sorry it’s not very comprehensive but it’s dependent on several different things, bottom line is go to a public hospital and it’s free. We have a reciprocal agreement with the UK amongst others where you can see a GP and be treated in the public system for free just like a local.

The Labour Party are big supporters of Medicare the liberals can’t be trusted with it imo.

NB. Melbourne is growing at a ridiculous rate and is projected to be the size of New York etc by 2050. This is placing an incredible strain on infrastructure including hospitals, expect immigration to be a huge election issue here.

 

[MUFKilda]

We have the public health system which is in part funded by a compulsory Medicare levy currently 2% if you also carry private health insurance, it’s higher if you don’t.

Basically you can turn up at a GP and in most cases be bulk billed and pay nothing, you can also turn up or be referred to public hospitals and be treated for free.

Their are private hospitals and some GPs and virtually all specialists charge what they like, you make a claim on Medicare and get back what is known as the standard fee. This standard fee is set by the government and the gap can be minimal or a lot depending of the specialist and the type of treatment.

Private health covers accomodation in a private hospital, dental, physio, optical etc. then Medicare covers 75% of the scheduled fee on surgery and private covers 25 %. You can be out of pocket for large sums in the private system.

Sorry it’s not very comprehensive but it’s dependent on several different things, bottom line is go to a public hospital and it’s free. We have a reciprocal agreement with the UK amongst others where you can see a GP and be treated in the public system for free just like a local.

The Labour Party are big supporters of Medicare the liberals can’t be trusted with it imo.

NB. Melbourne is growing at a ridiculous rate and is projected to be the size of New York etc by 2050. This is placing an incredible strain on infrastructure including hospitals, expect immigration to be a huge election issue here.

So, is it a two tier system whereby the quality of treatment depends upon how much you can pay?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We have the public health system which is in part funded by a compulsory Medicare levy currently 2% if you also carry private health insurance, it’s higher if you don’t.

Basically you can turn up at a GP and in most cases be bulk billed and pay nothing, you can also turn up or be referred to public hospitals and be treated for free.

Their are private hospitals and some GPs and virtually all specialists charge what they like, you make a claim on Medicare and get back what is known as the standard fee. This standard fee is set by the government and the gap can be minimal or a lot depending of the specialist and the type of treatment.

Private health covers accomodation in a private hospital, dental, physio, optical etc. then Medicare covers 75% of the scheduled fee on surgery and private covers 25 %. You can be out of pocket for large sums in the private system.

Sorry it’s not very comprehensive but it’s dependent on several different things, bottom line is go to a public hospital and it’s free. We have a reciprocal agreement with the UK amongst others where you can see a GP and be treated in the public system for free just like a local.

The Labour Party are big supporters of Medicare the liberals can’t be trusted with it imo.

NB. Melbourne is growing at a ridiculous rate and is projected to be the size of New York etc by 2050. This is placing an incredible strain on infrastructure including hospitals, expect immigration to be a huge election issue here.

The "schedule fee " is always racing a losing battle, because the "specialists" know how much people will cough up out of pocket to keep themselves as busy as they want to be, put the schedule up, they put their rates up. Those Porsche's aren't getting any cheaper.
If you go the insurance path, its still most cost effective to go into the public system, and just use your insurance for any out of pocket costs like specialists.

 

[Yawkey way]

So, is it a two tier system whereby the quality of treatment depends upon how much you can pay?

The short answer is yes, if you can pay and money is of no concern I imagine you can obtain better outcomes in any system including yours.

In practice here the care you receive at the basic level is exactly the same, same GPS etc. Then you start talking about specialists, yes you will have out of pocket expenses and the better ones will often have a greater gap over that scheduled fee you get back. Hospital treatment is a funny one, the doctors operate in both the public and private system so the difference is in how long you would spend in hospital after the operation, quality of meals etc.

The place it’s really felt is in elective surgery, private patients walk straight in, public patients are on a waiting list for anything not considered urgent and what qualifies as elective can be quite alarming. You might need a stent in your arteries or a bypass but still be on a waiting list, off course if you require it you’re operated on.

The system here now is under a lot of pressure from massive population growth, I think we’re growing at a top 6 in the world rate plus so many people have private insurance. We have also seen international companies enter the health market here so in practice it’s pretty brutal get them out ASAP stuff even in the private system now.

Private hospitals have agreements with various health funds, it’s really bureaucratic bean counting. They will pay so much per day for X number of days depending on what’s wrong with you the type of operation etc. Then they start to reduce how much they pay the hospital, so the hospital has a financial incentive to get you out ASAP which imo compromises patients.

It’s funny really apart from the waiting lists your just as well of going public. Having said all that health care in Australia at least in the major cities is of a very high standard and available to all. You could turn up at the Alfed hospital emergency department here and they will see you for anything. They do of course have a triage nurse but if you wait they’ll treat a sore throat.

 

[MUFKilda]

The short answer is yes, if you can pay and money is of no concern I imagine you can obtain better outcomes in any system including yours.

In practice here the care you receive at the basic level is exactly the same, same GPS etc. Then you start talking about specialists, yes you will have out of pocket expenses and the better ones will often have a greater gap over that scheduled fee you get back. Hospital treatment is a funny one, the doctors operate in both the public and private system so the difference is in how long you would spend in hospital after the operation, quality of meals etc.

The place it’s really felt is in elective surgery, private patients walk straight in, public patients are on a waiting list for anything not considered urgent and what qualifies as elective can be quite alarming. You might need a stent in your arteries or a bypass but still be on a waiting list, off course if you require it you’re operated on.

The system here now is under a lot of pressure from massive population growth, I think we’re growing at a top 6 in the world rate plus so many people have private insurance. We have also seen international companies enter the health market here so in practice it’s pretty brutal get them out ASAP stuff even in the private system now.

Private hospitals have agreements with various health funds, it’s really bureaucratic bean counting. They will pay so much per day for X number of days depending on what’s wrong with you the type of operation etc. Then they start to reduce how much they pay the hospital, so the hospital has a financial incentive to get you out ASAP which imo compromises patients.

It’s funny really apart from the waiting lists your just as well of going public. Having said all that health care in Australia at least in the major cities is of a very high standard and available to all. You could turn up at the Alfed hospital emergency department here and they will see you for anything. They do of course have a triage nurse but if you wait they’ll treat a sore throat.

It doesn't sound great, to be honest: bureaucratic, something of a lottery for many, and not a universal system. Sounds like those without much money must rely on the goodwill of public providers but don't get the best treatment guaranteed. Seems to me some clinicians can treat it as a business, by seeing wealthy patients, whilst the more public spirited make sacrifices to treat those who don't have much.

I much prefer our socialist system of free to all at the point of delivery, no matter how expensive the treatment. We have private medicine, but everyone is covered by, and pays for, the NHS, and anyone who takes out private insurance does so as an extra cost. Private hospitals have no accident and emergency departments, but are solely for elective surgery.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So, is it a two tier system whereby the quality of treatment depends upon how much you can pay?

There's no real evidence to suggest that.
Its two tier in that..
Public , you can hardly walk , you need a hip replacement, this is not as important as the road accident victims, so you go on a waiting list.
Private, you book straight into a hospital and have your surgery done.
Some of the private hospitals have excellent food.

A long time ago now , but my wife booked into a private hospital for tonsils removal.

Hospital: "Would you like your own room, its only $100 per night extra "
Wife : "No...makes no difference to me, i don't mind having company "
Hospital: " Oh well we have to give you your own room anyway its all we have available "
Me : " You scumm sucking bottom dwellers, so you tried to rip $100 bucks a night off us for a room we were going to get anyway, and a week of hiring that shitty little TV is enough to purchase a decent little flatscreen tv " ( OK back at that time it wouldn't have been but its certainly the case now ).

OK i didn't say that , but i did FEEL like saying it.

The whole industry is full of people trying to suck the money out, for all sorts of reasons other than helping sick people.

"I like this desk , how much for 100 of them "?
" They are $100 each , what do you want them for"?
"They'd be good in the administration section of the Hospital"
"Ohhhh you need the medical desk, those are $500 each "
"Whats the difference"?
"It has a sticker here that says medical see "

 

[Yawkey way]

It doesn't sound great, to be honest: bureaucratic, something of a lottery for many, and not a universal system. Sounds like those without much money must rely on the goodwill of public providers but don't get the best treatment guaranteed. Seems to me some clinicians can treat it as a business, by seeing wealthy patients, whilst the more public spirited make sacrifices to treat those who don't have much.

I much prefer our socialist system of free to all at the point of delivery, no matter how expensive the treatment. We have private medicine, but everyone is covered by, and pays for, the NHS, and anyone who takes out private insurance does so as an extra cost. Private hospitals have no accident and emergency departments, but are solely for elective surgery.

It’s universal in the sense that everybody pays the Medicare levy and has access to a GP and the public hospital system.

That system is really about as good as you can get, it stacks up very well against any system in the world imo.

Yes there is a private system that operates in a complimentary way if you like by taking some of the stress of the public system and yes doctors can charge what they like and work where they choose.

Surely you have a waiting list in your system and not everyone out of the tenements can see a Harley street specialist. I also believe you’re allocated to a particular GP etc, I don’t know too much about your system but I’d be interested to hear how it works in practice. How do you see a GP, what happens if you need an operation, can you have private health insurance and what does it buy you.

Oh one thing I think we have in common is dental health is a bloody scandal not covered by the public system and pennies on the dollar back in the private system.

 

[Yawkey way]

There's no real evidence to suggest that.
Its two tier in that..
Public , you can hardly walk , you need a hip replacement, this is not as important as the road accident victims, so you go on a waiting list.
Private, you book straight into a hospital and have your surgery done.
Some of the private hospitals have excellent food.

A long time ago now , but my wife booked into a private hospital for tonsils removal.

Hospital: "Would you like your own room, its only $100 per night extra "
Wife : "No...makes no difference to me, i don't mind having company "
Hospital: " Oh well we have to give you your own room anyway its all we have available "
Me : " You scumm sucking bottom dwellers, so you tried to rip $100 bucks a night off us for a room we were going to get anyway, and a week of hiring that shitty little TV is enough to purchase a decent little flatscreen tv " ( OK back at that time it wouldn't have been but its certainly the case now ).

OK i didn't say that , but i did FEEL like saying it.

The whole industry is full of people trying to suck the money out, for all sorts of reasons other than helping sick people.

"I like this desk , how much for 100 of them "?
" They are $100 each , what do you want them for"?
"They'd be good in the administration section of the Hospital"
"Ohhhh you need the medical desk, those are $500 each "
"Whats the difference"?
"It has a sticker here that says medical see "

It was a great system that is starting to bulge at the seems and it’s being compromised by health funds and private hospitals ripping us off.

 

[Yawkey way]

So, is it a two tier system whereby the quality of treatment depends upon how much you can pay?

I just need to clarify some points so I’ll make it personal.

If you travelled to Australia and became ill I could take you to any number of doctors in my area and you would be seen within 30 minutes around here. Should you experience a medical emergency or have an accident you would be taken by ambulance to a public hospital and treated in a world class hospital by world class doctors immediately and all free of charge.

The bun fight only starts if it’s considered elective or isn’t an emergency, so if you needed a knee reco you would be waiting a while without private insurance. It would be done in time to the exact same standard you would just need to wait.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It doesn't sound great, to be honest: bureaucratic, something of a lottery for many, and not a universal system. Sounds like those without much money must rely on the goodwill of public providers but don't get the best treatment guaranteed. Seems to me some clinicians can treat it as a business, by seeing wealthy patients, whilst the more public spirited make sacrifices to treat those who don't have much.

I much prefer our socialist system of free to all at the point of delivery, no matter how expensive the treatment. We have private medicine, but everyone is covered by, and pays for, the NHS, and anyone who takes out private insurance does so as an extra cost. Private hospitals have no accident and emergency departments, but are solely for elective surgery.

I don't see it as very different.
All taxpayers pay a Medicare levy unless they are paying from Private cover. ( In recognition that the Private System alleviates some of the load from the public system ). If you have a cardiac arrest, the public system will quickly get you into some of the best facilities available in a short period of time .

People who pay extra for private insurance basically jump the queue. Is the quality of the medical service better?

As Yawky way suggested, the government has been keeping the economy ticking over with a high immigration count, without upgrading the infrastructure.
A bit like if you let a second family move into your house to balance your costs, it comes with a down side.

The public sector doctors, the ones worth their salt, are probably as expensive as the private ones. I believe that they are currently trying to make nurses "more qualified " and to train more nurses aids to do the more menial tasks.

There will never be a situation where the rich cannot get better medical service.
Kerry Packer needed a kidney, "give us yer kidney mate , i'll look after you "......"Yes Mr Packer".
If a cure costs a billion dollars, its not available. But it could be if you paid up front.
Even your socialist system as you described it, is driven by a budget.
If they could cure you for 100 Billion Pounds, they'd let you die.

 

[Yawkey way]

I don't see it as very different.
All taxpayers pay a Medicare levy unless they are paying from Private cover. ( In recognition that the Private System alleviates some of the load from the public system ). If you have a cardiac arrest, the public system will quickly get you into some of the best facilities available in a short period of time .

People who pay extra for private insurance basically jump the queue. Is the quality of the medical service better?

As Yawky way suggested, the government has been keeping the economy ticking over with a high immigration count, without upgrading the infrastructure.
A bit like if you let a second family move into your house to balance your costs, it comes with a down side.

The public sector doctors, the ones worth their salt, are probably as expensive as the private ones. I believe that they are currently trying to make nurses "more qualified " and to train more nurses aids to do the more menial tasks.

There will never be a situation where the rich cannot get better medical service.
Kerry Packer needed a kidney, "give us yer kidney mate , i'll look after you "......"Yes Mr Packer".
If a cure costs a billion dollars, its not available. But it could be if you paid up front.
Even your socialist system as you described it, is driven by a budget.
If they could cure you for 100 Billion Pounds, they'd let you die.

Pretty much but you have to pay the Medicare levy, it doesn’t matter if you have private insurance what changes is the rate. It’s 2% if you have private insurance as well and more expensive if you don’t.

 

[MUFKilda]

It’s universal in the sense that everybody pays the Medicare levy and has access to a GP and the public hospital system.

That system is really about as good as you can get, it stacks up very well against any system in the world imo.

Yes there is a private system that operates in a complimentary way if you like by taking some of the stress of the public system and yes doctors can charge what they like and work where they choose.

Surely you have a waiting list in your system and not everyone out of the tenements can see a Harley street specialist. I also believe you’re allocated to a particular GP etc, I don’t know too much about your system but I’d be interested to hear how it works in practice. How do you see a GP, what happens if you need an operation, can you have private health insurance and what does it buy you.

Oh one thing I think we have in common is dental health is a bloody scandal not covered by the public system and pennies on the dollar back in the private system.

We only have waiting lists when the system is underfunded i.e. when we have Conservative governments. In the Thatcher/Major years waiting lists were horrendous and the buildings were left to rot. Most hospitals (and schools) have been re-built in the past twenty years.

We aren't allocated a GP; you can go to any in your local area. As for private insurance, it get allow you to queue jump on non-essential treatments, but they don't offer major surgery, cancer treatment, A & E services. Anything major or acute and you go to the NHS; private insurance might enable you to get your own room, but that's it - all care is the same.

I pay National Insurance direct from my income each month, same as income tax; it's compulsory and you can't opt out. This pays for the NHS and for pensions, thus both are there when you need them or qualify. If I need a million pounds worth of intensive care treatment at some point, it's there and I needn't worry. if I pay in but never need treatment (touch wood) so much the better.

My best friend's sister needed a liver transplant a few years ago, due to a problem since childhood. Her treatment must be a couple of million so far, but she's never had to contribute a penny. She hasn't been able to work because of her health, thus has never paid in, yet she's alive and flourishing now. The NHS is the best thing Britain has ever done.

 

[Yawkey way]

We only have waiting lists when the system is underfunded i.e. when we have Conservative governments. In the Thatcher/Major years waiting lists were horrendous and the buildings were left to rot. Most hospitals (and schools) have been re-built in the past twenty years.

We aren't allocated a GP; you can go to any in your local area. As for private insurance, it get allow you to queue jump on non-essential treatments, but they don't offer major surgery, cancer treatment, A & E services. Anything major or acute and you go to the NHS; private insurance might enable you to get your own room, but that's it - all care is the same.

I pay National Insurance direct from my income each month, same as income tax; it's compulsory and you can't opt out. This pays for the NHS and for pensions, thus both are there when you need them or qualify. If I need a million pounds worth of intensive care treatment at some point, it's there and I needn't worry. if I pay in but never need treatment (touch wood) so much the better.

That’s very similar to be honest we pay the Medicare levy with our tax it’s compulsory and you can’t opt out.

The minor difference is everybody can have their own GP of choice or visit ten if they like. The major difference is the private system treats everything as well including cancer.

So yes we have universal health care and the age pension, as I’ve mentioned before this country is really very British.

 

[MUFKilda]

That’s very similar to be honest we pay the Medicare levy with our tax it’s compulsory and you can’t opt out.

The minor difference is everybody can have their own GP of choice or visit ten if they like. The major difference is the private system treats everything as well including cancer.

So yes we have universal health care and the age pension, as I’ve mentioned before this country is really very British.

I'm not sure that's a good thing. Both Britain and Australia have been susceptible to neoliberalism in the past few decades and have privatised and deregulated. I'd much rather Britain was aligned with the European social democratic model. The French, for example, will strike and riot whenever labour is weakened in favour of capital, yet we in Britain seem far more compliant.

 

[Yawkey way]

I'm not sure that's a good thing. Both Britain and Australia have been susceptible to neoliberalism in the past few decades and have privatised and deregulated. I'd much rather Britain was aligned with the European social democratic model. The French, for example, will strike and riot whenever labour is weakened in favour of capital, yet we in Britain seem far more compliant.

It’s far more advantageous to ordinary people than going down the American route which the liberals like to push.

Yes much to my disgust everything not nailed down has been privatised and deregulated and what’s left the liberals are trying to privatise as well.

I feel like the pendulum is about to swing back here, energy and in particular gas is going to become a national scandal of epic proportions. I believe the inevitable enquiry will open the flood gates and open peoples eyes.

 

[MUFKilda]

It’s far more advantageous to ordinary people than going down the American route which the liberals like to push.

Yes much to my disgust everything not nailed down has been privatised and deregulated and what’s left the liberals are trying to privatise as well.

I feel like the pendulum is about to swing back here, energy and in particular gas is going to become a national scandal of epic proportions. I believe the inevitable enquiry will open the flood gates and open peoples eyes.

The Liberals are the equivalent of our Conservatives, yes? The John Howard mob, the neo-liberal privatisers. In fact, Australia has displaced us here in Britain as America's poodle, even voting in the U.N. to oppose a two state solution in Israel-Palestine. Even our Tory governments haven't gone that far before. Sadly, your Labour Party, like our own under Blair, has accepted the neo-liberal philosophy and calls privatisation 'reform'. Hopefully, Corbyn can counteract this pathology over here.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Funding is tricky.
If you just throw money at a health system they quickly find ways to spend it all, not necessarily to the betterment of health.

A real example a customer was telling me , was trying to supply the electric actuators for Hospital beds.
The budget had been reduced and the hospital equipment maintenance guy had approached him to see if he could get a better deal.
His products were competitive, "but what about the service contract "? He was asked.
Turns out that he couldn't provide the service contract. BUT ...the only thing that ever needed looking at was so easy to deal with the Hospital were able to do it in house. Turns out that the service contract had been costing the Hospital more than the items. Less money spent on health, no detriment to patients or health.

The thing is, no-one would have looked at it , if the funding hadn't been cut.
I'm not saying that cutting funding is the best solution, but in the modern world it seems that everyone just looks at numbers and targets, and doesn't dig into details.

Education is the same, increase spending to make the kids smarter, they buy a heap of tech... and still don't address the basic issues of literacy and numeracy.

 

[Yawkey way]

Funding is tricky.
If you just throw money at a health system they quickly find ways to spend it all, not necessarily to the betterment of health.

A real example a customer was telling me , was trying to supply the electric actuators for Hospital beds.
The budget had been reduced and the hospital equipment maintenance guy had approached him to see if he could get a better deal.
His products were competitive, "but what about the service contract "? He was asked.
Turns out that he couldn't provide the service contract. BUT ...the only thing that ever needed looking at was so easy to deal with the Hospital were able to do it in house. Turns out that the service contract had been costing the Hospital more than the items. Less money spent on health, no detriment to patients or health.

The thing is, no-one would have looked at it , if the funding hadn't been cut.
I'm not saying that cutting funding is the best solution, but in the modern world it seems that everyone just looks at numbers and targets, and doesn't dig into details.

Education is the same, increase spending to make the kids smarter, they buy a heap of tech... and still don't address the basic issues of literacy and numeracy.

There’s no place for waste but there’s only so many hospitals, schools etc you can’t fit double the people into the same number of beds or seats.

Plus these places get old and sick as buildings that were meant to last 20 years stretch into their 60 years plus of service like my local schoool. It’s just been rebuilt in the last year or so, money spent on vital infrastructure is never wasted imo.