Autopsy Rd 3 Blues beat Giants - We're not putting that one in a time capsule

[BlueTongue]

at least you're putting your hand up.......

Ah, you know me, I'm a quiet type who is a bit skittish about voicing his opinions in a public forum ...

... Maybe I'll just stick to clicking emojis for a while ...

 

[gunslingr]

While we all know the head high rule, I don't believe the dissent rule is as clear, things like pointing and swearing at umpires is clear cut, but I must admit, I had no idea that asking the question "why wasn't that holding the ball?" constituted dissent. Especially since it seemed like the arms out being demonstrative rule had been relaxed.



I agree with your assessment ODN, what has perplexed me in this instance was from the games I've seen so far this year the arms out being demonstrative rule seems to have been relaxed (I think there was a tweet by Tom Brown stating as much). If this is the way the AFL are interpreting the dissent rule so be it, but it seems very harsh as you'd have to be a robot to not react as Coniglio did.

The dissent was disputing the decision to not give the Giants a free kick, in line with 18.8.2(d) of the Laws of the Game.

I suggested earlier that Coniglio's actions could be seen as not actually that robotic and therefore more ripe for a dissent call - it seems like more of a determined act to throw your hands up and have a word when a free kick isn't given as opposed to a more automatic arms up at the sound of a whistle + "free kick [other team]".

The AFL somewhat relaxed the interpretation about a third of the way through last season to account for that automatic emotional response to some degree but even then I think words + actions were always going to attract a whistle - look at Coniglio in the replay, and watch his arms go up and his body bend as he yells at the umpire

 

[slashin_velvet]

The dissent was disputing the decision to not give the Giants a free kick, in line with 18.8.2(d) of the Laws of the Game.

I suggested earlier that Coniglio's actions could be seen as not actually that robotic and therefore more ripe for a dissent call - it seems like more of a determined act to throw your hands up and have a word when a free kick isn't given as opposed to a more automatic arms up at the sound of a whistle + "free kick [other team]".

The AFL somewhat relaxed the interpretation about a third of the way through last season to account for that automatic emotional response to some degree but even then I think words + actions were always going to attract a whistle - look at Coniglio in the replay, and watch his arms go up and his body bend as he yells at the umpire

This is all well and good, but minutes later (around 9.30 to go on the broadcast game clock), the ball goes out of bounds off a GWS player, and McGovern does an almost identical gesture on two seperate occasions. Didn't sit particularly well with me that he would be as dumb to give them a chance to ping both sides

 

[Stamos]

This is all well and good, but minutes later (around 9.30 to go on the broadcast game clock), the ball goes out of bounds off a GWS player, and McGovern does an almost identical gesture on two seperate occasions. Didn't sit particularly well with me that he would be as dumb to give them a chance to ping both sides

Appealing for an 'insufficient attempt' free kick (or a holding the ball when the player is still being tackled) is pretty different to dissent of an umpire's decision.

 

[Shambolic]

first time we've beaten them 3x in a row!

 

[DangerousD]

The coaches aren't the ones missing targets. Clean up skills and it's a different game.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

That’s true, I would also hope the coaches aren’t telling Harry and Charlie to fly for the same balls either.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Appealing for an 'insufficient attempt' free kick (or a holding the ball when the player is still being tackled) is pretty different to dissent of an umpire's decision.

The appeal for insufficient attempt is similar to asking "how was that not deliberate" which is what Coniglio was pinged for

 

[Stamos]

The appeal for insufficient attempt is similar to asking "how was that not deliberate" which is what Coniglio was pinged for

"Please give me a free kick" is not really that similar to "how did you not give me a free kick?"

 

[windows1]

TDK is looking a lot stronger... Really liked some of his Tractor like grunt work. He looks to be getting much more aggressive.

Having his best season already TDk. Intensity is up a mile. He’s great when the ball hits the deck. Harasses and chases. Loving his game at the moment. Is really coming along.

Pitto only playing half a game so adjust those to a 75 percent and he too is looking good after a tough off season. Think they’ll play that mis all year. TDk 50 ruck and 20 forward. 30 bench. Pitto 50 bench. Suspect they would like to late sub Pitto but guys keep getting injured.

 

[windows1]

Watching the replay some of LOBs kicks were atrocious and missed the player by some way. Resulting in out the back goals to GWS. GWS Also scored through the middle when winning hit out clearances. They just ran leaving four to five mids in their wake. We need players to sit negatively to the contest to avoid this. The ground really opened up for their drives. This didn’t happen as much out of their back 50.

Doc and McGovern kicking into the middle was strange. With time and space completely missing Carlton players and sometimes there wasn’t any yo kick to but they did anyway. Either a coaching directive or completely poor decisions.

Next week need to clean this up. I’m all for giving Dow a go who has looked promising around the ball if Kennedy doesn’t play. Give him and Cerra opportunities to play a wing if acres is too sore. Or even put fisher permanent forward with Dow to play his part time role.

I really liked Motlop around the ball. Great to see him And Durdin up the ground but it hurt us up the ground with only talls to go for the ball against a GWS spare. That’s the risk you take with playing an extra up the ground. We didn’t have a spare behind the ball like GWS did as we played the permanent tag on Greene. Sounds like Voss expected a scrap and played it that way deliberately.

I am all for them kicking into the middle. We need to be more unpredictable moving the ball and that move REALLY breaks up play. We simply have to get better at it and that means we have to be prepared to try and accept the mistakes that come.

 

[windows1]

For me - Fisher is only surviving in the side because of his likeable personality. He has never been a 4Qtr player and in a year where we are supposed to be taking it up to the next level, these efforts should not be tolerated. LOB has had limited opportunity to run into some form, but 7 disposals is a poor return on 70% game time.

I get Vossy is trying to build a tight-knit team but there comes a time when you have to recognize those players that continually and repeatedly taper off. Martin needs to stay out until he is playing football that demands he be picked, and not off the back of a single game. Now Fish should go out for a spell as well.

Owies gets a reprieve for his 2 goals but 4 disposals for the match is woeful.

Not quite one for the Chicken Little thread, but we have a lot of work to do and most of it is mentally.
I don't think we need to congratulate ourselves quite as much and endlessly quote 'learnings'.

Our football should do the talking, and we should now be burying teams, but even though the competition is close, the Teams like *, Norf, West Coast, Adelaide are already a threat to us.

Time to stop the pats on the back and start focusing on smashing teams (moreso on the scoreboard) over 4 Qtrs.

My biggest issue with Fisher is that he just doesn’t apply chase down pressure. I think it’s becoming essential that as a high half forward you can do that. Else you need to be a freak. He just doesn’t have the gears to do it. If honey gets his act together and the others (Motlop Owies and Durdin) stay fit I think he will be out of the side.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Who knows why with regard to the dissent free, maybe Coniglio had been on the umpires case all day and that was the last straw.


But what I do know is this

For 20 years that would have been against us and now a few things are going for us.

 

[GinTonic]

The dissent was disputing the decision to not give the Giants a free kick, in line with 18.8.2(d) of the Laws of the Game.

I suggested earlier that Coniglio's actions could be seen as not actually that robotic and therefore more ripe for a dissent call - it seems like more of a determined act to throw your hands up and have a word when a free kick isn't given as opposed to a more automatic arms up at the sound of a whistle + "free kick [other team]".

The AFL somewhat relaxed the interpretation about a third of the way through last season to account for that automatic emotional response to some degree but even then I think words + actions were always going to attract a whistle - look at Coniglio in the replay, and watch his arms go up and his body bend as he yells at the umpire

Thanks gunslingr , I was not aware of law 18.8.2(d). I assumed all dissent calls fell under section 18.8.2(a)(b) i.e. a player shall not abuse, insult, threaten an umpire etc.

 

[SirSanchez]

Watching the seconds problem is carrol hasn't come on like most thought he would - fog not up to it - cunners a ways off- unfortunately honey pulled early so couldn't push his case ..
Probably have to hope for Martin to comes good or wait for Binns to do the miles but his kicking needs work no use bringing him in unless you know will succeed ..
Walsh and cerra will probably rotate off half fwd anyway - we really need our 5 mids up and running then selection pressure will come on those bottom 6

Heard Cincotta had a blinder in the ressies. He’s quick and can kick. Is he an option?

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

The appeal for insufficient attempt is similar to asking "how was that not deliberate" which is what Coniglio was pinged for

Wish they would do it to every incident of this nature tbh, It's a habitual action that spreads to all levels and a s**t look for the sport.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Heard Cincotta had a blinder in the ressies. He’s quick and can kick. Is he an option?

Yes he or kemp and move the magnets .

 

[Coops93]

Conditions must have been harder than it appeared. I know the ground must have been heavy given the rain and the game played only an hour earlier, so that would've effected things for sure. I think the fact both teams really struggled should show that there was something not quite right. In any case, tough watch that game.

Something about Harry is off. He's got no presence really inside 50 at the moment. I do love that he hasn't dropped his head, though. Some of his chasing efforts were elite for anyone, let along a 204cm key. Also his getting up to the wing and taking big bail-out marks were huge. So the effort is definitely there and I love he's still helping the team in other ways, just the inside 50 is out of sync.

SOS had a great game. That's how we want him to play. Lead up half forward I think is his best role, not 3rd tall.

Mots was very good, as was Durdin. Though both drifted in and out. Shame about Owies.

I haven't read the thread but I'm sure there's plenty of love for Newman. He deserves it, too. Excellent game. Shut down Toby but was just a defensive effort from him he was still an attacking presence. Absolutely pantsed Greene.

Hollands is a gem. Running all day, all effort, puts his body on the line and helps the defence no end. He's reminding me a bit of Walsh in his first year. The next step for him imo is improving that offensive side of his game, but that's down the track. For a first year player you couldn't be asking for more.

O'Brien... I'll be quick to admit I've never been a fan, even from when we drafted him. I've never believed in his "elite" kicking as he makes too many basic mistakes to be elite. Sure he can hit excellent passes (his kick to Harry in rd 1 was a great example), but then the next kick will be an uncontested 25m pass that shanks OTF, or like on the weekend where he just straight up misses and passes right to the opposition. He's not dependable in any aspect of his game and his supposed strength lets you down often. Plus he doesn't play with any physicality or help the defense like his first year mate in Hollands. His size has been an excuse for playing with no physicality, well Hollands is even smaller yet backs into key forwards every week and scraps for the footy. No excuses for LOB anymore for me.

Weiters mate, since when is your disposal this shakey? Had 2 stinkers on the weekend. Feels like he's "just going" at the moment, hasn't hit full flight. In fact hasn't quite looked the same since his injury last yr.

In all, take the win. Not really a pleasant game but sometimes you gotta win dirty. Not every win is a classic.

 

[BlueSuede]

The dissent was disputing the decision to not give the Giants a free kick, in line with 18.8.2(d) of the Laws of the Game.

I suggested earlier that Coniglio's actions could be seen as not actually that robotic and therefore more ripe for a dissent call - it seems like more of a determined act to throw your hands up and have a word when a free kick isn't given as opposed to a more automatic arms up at the sound of a whistle + "free kick [other team]".

The AFL somewhat relaxed the interpretation about a third of the way through last season to account for that automatic emotional response to some degree but even then I think words + actions were always going to attract a whistle - look at Coniglio in the replay, and watch his arms go up and his body bend as he yells at the umpire

Thanks for sharing that. I wonder if the AFL will clarify the rule at some point as well. Seeing that 'disputing' is listed actually changed my mind about this decision - there was probably a free kick there according to the rules. I know it would still be open to debate as to whether the player was disputing, but it's not impossible to make that case. Also, 'disputing' is quite different to appealing, clarifying, or being disappointed by a decision. It is basically saying to the umpire, 'I think you're wrong'. I actually think disputing (as compared with those other categories of engaging with the umpire) would happen less in a game than we think.

The other thing that I think is clouding this is the line: 'A goal is too big a penalty'. The penalty was a free kick, not a goal. It just so happened that it occurred in Carlton's forward 50 and therefore led to a goal. If it happened anywhere else on the field, would a free kick seem commensurate? If so, then there is no problem. The alternative would be that free kicks would be paid in some areas of the ground, but not others, because of the fear that 'a goal is too big a penalty'.

 

[ESKIE]

The dissent was disputing the decision to not give the Giants a free kick, in line with 18.8.2(d) of the Laws of the Game.

I suggested earlier that Coniglio's actions could be seen as not actually that robotic and therefore more ripe for a dissent call - it seems like more of a determined act to throw your hands up and have a word when a free kick isn't given as opposed to a more automatic arms up at the sound of a whistle + "free kick [other team]".

The AFL somewhat relaxed the interpretation about a third of the way through last season to account for that automatic emotional response to some degree but even then I think words + actions were always going to attract a whistle - look at Coniglio in the replay, and watch his arms go up and his body bend as he yells at the umpire

I’m pretty sure coniglio was pinged in another game recently for mouthing off after a decision and it was a 50 meter penalty…..

 

[David Sylvian]

There was a free kick given to mots at about the 50m mark. Con igloo was carrying on like a chop with arms outstretched as was another gws player. Umpire had probably had a gut full of his behaviour maybe even warned him who knows.

 

[Blue Reaper]

Durdin and Dutch in our top 3 for pressure acts (Durdin with a 3-1 ratio for PAs to possessions!). This is the standard we can build the season(s) on.

 

[jj1978]

Conditions must have been harder than it appeared. I know the ground must have been heavy given the rain and the game played only an hour earlier, so that would've effected things for sure. I think the fact both teams really struggled should show that there was something not quite right. In any case, tough watch that game.

Something about Harry is off. He's got no presence really inside 50 at the moment. I do love that he hasn't dropped his head, though. Some of his chasing efforts were elite for anyone, let along a 204cm key. Also his getting up to the wing and taking big bail-out marks were huge. So the effort is definitely there and I love he's still helping the team in other ways, just the inside 50 is out of sync.

SOS had a great game. That's how we want him to play. Lead up half forward I think is his best role, not 3rd tall.

Mots was very good, as was Durdin. Though both drifted in and out. Shame about Owies.

I haven't read the thread but I'm sure there's plenty of love for Newman. He deserves it, too. Excellent game. Shut down Toby but was just a defensive effort from him he was still an attacking presence. Absolutely pantsed Greene.

Hollands is a gem. Running all day, all effort, puts his body on the line and helps the defence no end. He's reminding me a bit of Walsh in his first year. The next step for him imo is improving that offensive side of his game, but that's down the track. For a first year player you couldn't be asking for more.

O'Brien... I'll be quick to admit I've never been a fan, even from when we drafted him. I've never believed in his "elite" kicking as he makes too many basic mistakes to be elite. Sure he can hit excellent passes (his kick to Harry in rd 1 was a great example), but then the next kick will be an uncontested 25m pass that shanks OTF, or like on the weekend where he just straight up misses and passes right to the opposition. He's not dependable in any aspect of his game and his supposed strength lets you down often. Plus he doesn't play with any physicality or help the defense like his first year mate in Hollands. His size has been an excuse for playing with no physicality, well Hollands is even smaller yet backs into key forwards every week and scraps for the footy. No excuses for LOB anymore for me.

Weiters mate, since when is your disposal this shakey? Had 2 stinkers on the weekend. Feels like he's "just going" at the moment, hasn't hit full flight. In fact hasn't quite looked the same since his injury last yr.

In all, take the win. Not really a pleasant game but sometimes you gotta win dirty. Not every win is a classic.

We're lucky we've decided to play 2 genuine rucks as JSOS's efforts and output in the forward half have been vital, particularly with CC and Harry not being at their best yet.

 

[NavySteel]

JSOS' game was solid af. Played a crucial link up role. 19 possies and a goal. Coach will be please, I'm sure!

 

[NavySteel]

Durdin and Dutch in our top 3 for pressure acts (Durdin with a 3-1 ratio for PAs to possessions!). This is the standard we can build the season(s) on.

Durdin and Motts have brought the pressure. They cover so much ground so quickly... Both of them are nuggets that can lay solid and sticky tackles

 

[Aphrodite]

Newman made it in GuesSEN's Team Of The Week