Autopsy Rd 9 - If only games went for 1 quarter aka Still the Hawks bunnies

[Sharks On A Plane]

We know what Murphy is and there's no need to pretend otherwise.
He still has a place in our best team, but he's not the smash and bash type and for whatever reason, cannot stick tackles.

Disagree. The opposition lick their lips at the sight of Murphy's name on the team sheet. He needs to go.

 

[Funk]

Murphy is a liability

every time Murphy got the ball he did the complete opposite of what was working for us.

Stop, look sideways, look backwards, look sideways again, look backwards again - then hack “down the line“ or even worse kick a shitful 30m pass direct to the opposition which turns into a goal.

A 5 game kid doing this I could understand.

but seriously WTF?????

 

[HARKER]

Hmm most people learned and fans alike had that opinion of the Dorks list too .....

Hawthorn aren't champions of the world because they beat us yesterday, but they showed they have little reluctance in making the hard calls (whether they be right or wrong)
There wouldn't be a player on that list that could realistically feel comfortable in their tenure, having seen what happened to Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis.

At first this seems as though this may have been a 'cultural' misstep because Hodge could have been handy and Mitchell could have been handy etc but it wasn't for the club, in the long run.
It was bold and even if Hawthorn were last on the table now, everyone would know what they have to do in order to retain on the list and no favours are given out to anyone.....no one.

 

[HARKER]

Disagree. The opposition lick their lips at the sight of Murphy's name on the team sheet. He needs to go.

I know what you're saying but will he go?
Are we going to make what people here see as being the right/hard call? What do we think?

Murphy will be there next week unless he gets a sudden onslaught of gastro....and even if not....who exactly is going to replace him?
Anyway...Old news and we'll see.

 

[Stamos]

Can someone please explain this (I am watching game for the third time):

No. I cannot explain why anyone not professionally employed by the club would watch that shameful performance more than once.

 

[Brackets]

every time Murphy got the ball he did the complete opposite of what was working for us.

Stop, look sideways, look backwards, look sideways again, look backwards again - then hack “down the line“ or even worse kick a shitful 30m pass direct to the opposition which turns into a goal.

A 5 game kid doing this I could understand.

but seriously WTF?????

That’s because there was no one proving an option. Unlike many of our players that bomb it, he looks for an open player. When he stops and looks around lost, it's because there isn't one.

 

[thylacine60]

I'm not seeing it. Runs around not doing much with the ball and not doing much to shut out an opponent. Gathers ground balls well and provides a bit of overlap before kicking to a contest. Courageous. I feel like Stocker could provide this and a lot more.

Find that a completely wrongheaded view of Simpson. It's never a good time to critique a player after a bad loss.

 

[agro]

Disagree. The opposition lick their lips at the sight of Murphy’s Carlton’s name on the team sheet.

Edited for accuracy.

 

[thylacine60]

I have, and people continue to bring it up when I make this argument.

That is a choice between two things, without a correct or incorrect option. Technically both are correct. But the implication of this argument is that by choice or decision we are referring to the same thing, that a decision made in pursuit of winning an AFL grand final or in a business context is akin to being forced to choose between two of your children as to who will die.

Suffice to say, it's hardly an apples to apples comparison.

Or a life and death situation.

 

[egalite]

Everyone's 2 way running was appalling, no point singling out individuals. Our Disposal was appalling, so many choices were appalling.
This is a team game, the Team is all of the Football department the whole Team took a nap last night. when real Leaders would have stood up.

 

[agro]

Adelaide have already set themselves for a win against us.

 

[thylacine60]

Adelaide have already set themselves for a win against us.

You might wanna check their board atm.

 

[Bluesome]

I'm not seeing it. Runs around not doing much with the ball and not doing much to shut out an opponent. Gathers ground balls well and provides a bit of overlap before kicking to a contest. Courageous. I feel like Stocker could provide this and a lot more.

Come on mate...we've seen Stock for all of 5 minutes on the big stage and whilst he didn't look out of his league he didn't set the world on fire...

This is what I meant before when saying people 'romanticise' players who are out of the team, particularly after a loss...

I hope Stock will at some stage be half as consistent and hard a player as Simmo, and really think he could become a great player when his time comes...to suggest he is there now though, much less could provide everything Simmo does 'and more' at this stage, is not based on any sort of evidence we've been privy to...

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Find that a completely wrongheaded view of Simpson. It's never a good time to critique a player after a bad loss.

I'm not denying Simpson is a wonderfully courageous player and has been a great contributor for so many years.

But in terms of his actual role: Never do you say, for example "wow Simmo really shut Charlie Cameron out of the game".

He doesn't play any sort of lockdown defensive role which you'd expect a small who can't intercept mark to do occasionally. And his disposal isn't damaging or creative imo.

Good link-up player for the release kick in the backline but I feel like we have created a weird role for him to accommodate him in our backline, and I'm not sure it actually does the team much good.

 

[Gethelred]

You're wrong in this instance....or at least for the choices that clubs confront

Clubs are sometimes reluctant to move on players that have served them well and can make the wrong call by allowing them to carry on beyond the real use by date, if said player is adamant they want to go on. It's happened to most clubs by one means or another, including internal pressures to retain and to not be seen as being the bad guys.

... all of which could indeed be the wrong choice. Have I objected to this argument here? Perhaps we all need to engage in less reading between the lines and more reading.

You also haven't demonstrated that I'm wrong, either.

Then there's the measure of what is right and what is wrong. How exactly do you determine this?

I've defined both (in terms of this argument; I'd be interested if we could extend the thought further, or if you think the definitions fail to work) in my conversation with Arr0w:
You have outcome X, and you have what actually happened (Y). To what extent does X equal Y?

If it's to a large extent, you've succeeded in making the correct choices to get to that point. Therefore, the correct choice is defined thus: the choice you need to make to get the outcome you want.

Sometimes we see things that aren't really there and h'hope' that the negatives of one year will correct themselves the next when it comes to the players most beloved by the club. This is nothing new.

Extremely general, and doesn't really apply to this conversation Harker. Unless you're being oblique again.

 

[Brackets]

Everyone's 2 way running was appalling, no point singling out individuals. Our Disposal was appalling, so many choices were appalling.
This is a team game, the Team is all of the Football department the whole Team took a nap last night. when real Leaders would have stood up.

Exactly this.

 

[thylacine60]

I'm not denying Simpson is a wonderfully courageous player and has been a great contributor for so many years.

But in terms of his actual role: Never do you say, for example "wow Simmo really shut Charlie Cameron out of the game".

He doesn't play any sort of lockdown defensive role which you'd expect a small who can't intercept mark to do occasionally. And his disposal isn't damaging or creative imo.

Good link-up player for the release kick in the backline but I feel like we have created a weird role for him to accommodate him in our backline, and I'm not sure it actually does the team much good.

Not sure he needs a specific role - the basics of footy are 18 each on the ground - beat your opposition player, maintain possession, hinder their efforts to score as best you can and drive it forward at every opportunity possible. Simplistic I know. Watching Simmo at the ground gives a much better idea of his work-rate and importance to our side. Not defending him for the sake of it, he's on the edge of retirement no doubt and yes he makes the odd howler. But as recently as this year I've found myself musing "how are we gonna replace this bloke?" Thankfully we're in a stronger position to do it than a few years back.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

not sure he needs a specific role - the basics of footy are 18 each on the ground - beat your opposition player, maintain possession, hinder their efforts to score as best you can and drive it forard at every opportunity possible. Simplistic I know. Watching Simmo at the ground gives a much better idea of his work-rate and importance to our side. Not defending him for the sake of it, he's on the edge of retirement no doubt and yes he makes the odd howler. But as recently as this year I've found myself musing "how are we gonna replace this bloke?"

You're probably right. And regardless we have more pressing issues than Simmo! But as you say, he'll be gone soon anyway so not worth losing sleep over this one.

 

[Brackets]

Jones trialled in the backline, rather being delisted, either scenario would have been an easy call.

Conversely it would have been a tough call to delist him given the natural attributes he had and a tough call to undertake a development program as a defender

It's more about trying different things, to benefit the whole

I used to agree with this, but now not so sure. Trialing Jones on the backline made sense. As does Polson. When you identify someone is on track to be delisted, trialing them in a role you have a need for is just sensible if they have any traits to be a chance.

However, drafting too many mids and trying to makeshift them into something else because you want their talent in the team I'm disagreeing with.

SPS is talented. I think he can be a great mid. I think he is a poor defender. If we have better options in the midfield, trade him for an actual defender. We might lose on paper, and class, but the team will improve.

Same with Gibson. He's not a forward, altho granted he's battling away admirably. Don't draft a VFL mid and play him as a small forward. Draft a small forward. While they may not have a liston medal or whatever it is called, the team will be better off.

Need more role players.

 

[agro]

You might wanna check their board atm.

Don’t need to check their board - let’s check our board in that games post mortem thread.

 

[thylacine60]

let's not..........I don't wanna get agro..........

 

[JustaBattler]

Not sure he needs a specific role - the basics of footy are 18 each on the ground - beat your opposition player, maintain possession, hinder their efforts to score as best you can and drive it forward at every opportunity possible. Simplistic I know. Watching Simmo at the ground gives a much better idea of his work-rate and importance to our side. Not defending him for the sake of it, he's on the edge of retirement no doubt and yes he makes the odd howler. But as recently as this year I've found myself musing "how are we gonna replace this bloke?" Thankfully we're in a stronger position to do it than a few years back.

You should write more on your thoughts on players, football and games.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Can someone please explain this (I am watching game for the third time):

Hawks put a spare back after we got well on top. And we didn’t recognise it. What we did was blaze away to it. They Intercepted and exploded. Why didn’t we slow the game down like we should? It’s not hard. Any forward could have called it out.

Bewildering really.

Regular occurrence I'm afraid. We have some strong hands down so let's just bomb. Junior Park tactics. Why not use our improved foothills to put it on H and Cas's chest a dozen times a game? Disappointing, infuriating.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I know what you're saying but will he go?
Are we going to make what people here see as being the right/hard call? What do we think?

Murphy will be there next week unless he gets a sudden onslaught of gastro....and even if not....who exactly is going to replace him?
Anyway...Old news and we'll see.

Fisher Cuningham or Samo take your pick .
Murphy has the odd good game but as others have stated including myself his disposal is iffy these days and defensively we are one short on the ground with him in .

There was a reason he was thrown back in the middle after bolts departure last year that time has now passed we've stopped leaking losses.

Pretty sure any of those players could at least replicate or close Murphys output Murph is now getting in the way of the transition in our midfield .

But your right he most likely won't be omitted as its not the Carlton way to make the tough calls ala Hawthorn .

 

[LemmingMaster]

SOS wanted Butler, Teague wanted Eddie.

Coaches should coach and recruiters should recruit.