Toast Reasons for Optimism

[Piggy Smalls]

Anyway, this conversation is going against the spirit of this thread.

Changing topic:

Amiss, Treacy, Bolton, Jackson, Sturt, Pickett.

Ah yep, that'll do it.

 

[BigRang]

Was the dockers side in 2012 to 2015 really that stacked?

Compared to Hawks, swans, cats vs and even Port Adelaide in that 2013-15 era, Freo wast as stacked as those other squads mentioned.

Dockers forward line had an ageing Pavlich, Mayne, Walters and Ballantyne.

Hawks, swans, cats , Port, crows, eagles all had better forward lines and proven winners than us at that time.

Pavlich, McPharlin and Sandilands were at least 30 years old in that 2012-15 finals era. Those blokes were in their prime in 2003-06. We couldn't make back to back finals in that period.

I am not expecting a flag with this mob. I want finals and finals wins just like 2022

 

[theGav56]

Our forward and defence are, or are going to be, as good/better than the Lyon years.

Midfield perhaps not quite up to it.

Depth, which is important, deeper now.

General club and player management better now

No excuses.

 

[Purple Suit]

Was the dockers side in 2012 to 2015 really that stacked?

Compared to Hawks, swans, cats vs and even Port Adelaide in that 2013-15 era, Freo wast as stacked as those other squads mentioned.

Dockers forward line had an ageing Pavlich, Mayne, Walters and Ballantyne.

Hawks, swans, cats , Port, crows, eagles all had better forward lines and proven winners than us at that time.

Pavlich, McPharlin and Sandilands were at least 30 years old in that 2012-15 finals era. Those blokes were in their prime in 2003-06. We couldn't make back to back finals in that period.

I am not expecting a flag with this mob. I want finals and finals wins just like 2022

I’m positive you are going to lose a lot of money in the next 5 years betting on the opposition.

 

[Freomaniac]

I’m positive you are going to lose a lot of money in the next 5 years betting on the opposition.

Good.

I want to win the lottery.

Dockers vs Geelong in a grand final.

Geelong is paying $1.50, dockers are paying $2.40.

More than happy to throw 10 million on the cats. Either way I win.

So I gotta choose between $15 million dollars or the dockers flag.


I am definitely choosing the dockers flag.

 

[Purple Suit]

Good.

I want to win the lottery.

Dockers vs Geelong in a grand final.

Geelong is paying $1.50, dockers are paying $2.40.

More than happy to throw 10 million on the cats. Either way I win.

So I gotta choose between $15 million dollars or the dockers flag.


I am definitely choosing the dockers flag.

What currency is this in?

 

[Freomaniac]

What currency is this in?

Australian dollar. Not USA dollar or British pound or Zimbabwean dollar

 

[Hamann188]

Although, I'm not in total agreement with Maniac (and by not total, I mean not at all) but I do fully understand where they're coming from.

It's been a very rough 30 years full of disappointment, false hope and promises of the world but deliveries of an atlas. I'm suffering from some serious PTSD as well.

But everything and I mean everything this club feels different now from previous years. Not just the players, but the coaching staff, the front office and even the attention from outside the club just makes it feel like this time it's for real.

So I don't think shutting down Maniac for their opinions is the way to go (although voicing them the optimism thread probably wasn't the wisest choice), I think we've all been there and some of us have just bounced back from all those disappointments a little better than others.

 

[Joao]

Although, I'm not in total agreement with Maniac (and by not total, I mean not at all) but I do fully understand where they're coming from.

It's been a very rough 30 years full of disappointment, false hope and promises of the world but deliveries of an atlas. I'm suffering from some serious PTSD as well.

But everything and I mean everything this club feels different now from previous years. Not just the players, but the coaching staff, the front office and even the attention from outside the club just makes it feel like this time it's for real.

So I don't think shutting down Maniac for their opinions is the way to go (although voicing them the optimism thread probably wasn't the wisest choice), I think we've all been there and some of us have just bounced back from all those disappointments a little better than others.

It's definitely not the thread for it, which is the main issue.

 

[Jezzitizle]

Our forward and defence are, or are going to be, as good/better than the Lyon years.

Midfield perhaps not quite up to it.

Depth, which is important, deeper now.

General club and player management better now

No excuses.

Interesting to compare the two midfields.

2013 v 2024

Sandi > Darcy
Fyfe - Serong
Mundy > Brayshaw
Barlow < Young
Hill > Johnson
Mzungu - Sharp
Crowley > Fyfe
Neale > ODriscoll

Johnno and Dris break outs would really have a big impact on the team, probably more than improvement from any other players.

 

[Minz]

Interesting to compare the two midfields.

2013 v 2024

Sandi > Darcy
Fyfe - Serong
Mundy > Brayshaw
Barlow < Young
Hill > Johnson
Mzungu - Sharp
Crowley > Fyfe
Neale > ODriscoll

Johnno and Dris break outs would really have a big impact on the team, probably more than improvement from any other players.

Mundy > Brayshaw is debatable IMO; that era Mundy was a bit streaky as I recall, and Brayshaw has been a league MVP.

Not sure peak Darcy is worse than 2013 Sandi either; Sandi wins the tap for sure, but Darcy is more consistently good around the ground… when healthy. Kinda feel like Sandi never fully realised his potential around the ground, at least partially because he was just so intensively fouled his whole career. Smaller players basically treated him like a jungle gym

Anyway, I like the comparison concept!

 

[pK75]

Mundy > Brayshaw is debatable IMO; that era Mundy was a bit streaky as I recall, and Brayshaw has been a league MVP.

Not sure peak Darcy is worse than 2013 Sandi either; Sandi wins the tap for sure, but Darcy is more consistently good around the ground… when healthy. Kinda feel like Sandi never fully realised his potential around the ground, at least partially because he was just so intensively fouled his whole career. Smaller players basically treated him like a jungle gym

Anyway, I like the comparison concept!

I think the comparison should be Mundy - Young
Barlow - Brayshaw

Which is pretty bloody close imo

 

[Jezzitizle]

I think the comparison should be Mundy - Young
Barlow - Brayshaw

Which is pretty bloody close imo

Yeh definitely could do it for that way. I was trying to do it ranking the mids, but you could argue Young is already better than Serong and Brayshaw based on hurt factor with the ball.

Mundy > Brayshaw is debatable IMO; that era Mundy was a bit streaky as I recall, and Brayshaw has been a league MVP.

Not sure peak Darcy is worse than 2013 Sandi either; Sandi wins the tap for sure, but Darcy is more consistently good around the ground… when healthy. Kinda feel like Sandi never fully realised his potential around the ground, at least partially because he was just so intensively fouled his whole career. Smaller players basically treated him like a jungle gym

Anyway, I like the comparison concept!

Yes was thinking that if those two teams played, Sandi’s net effect for his team probably slightly higher because with those midfields winning the tap is critical. But agree Darcy better around the ground.

With Brayshaw v Mundy, both AA squad in 2013/2024. Maybe I should have called it a draw, but my pro Mundy bias probably showing thru. Really just due to Mundy doing a bit more with the ball.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

Mundy > Brayshaw is debatable IMO; that era Mundy was a bit streaky as I recall, and Brayshaw has been a league MVP.

Not sure peak Darcy is worse than 2013 Sandi either; Sandi wins the tap for sure, but Darcy is more consistently good around the ground… when healthy. Kinda feel like Sandi never fully realised his potential around the ground, at least partially because he was just so intensively fouled his whole career. Smaller players basically treated him like a jungle gym

Anyway, I like the comparison concept!

Wow!
Mundy was in a different stratosphere as a player compared to Brayshaw.
One was a beast whose smooth moving & skills with multiple high skilled highlights, while the other is an honest workhorse with below average skills who relies purely on work ethic & has mostly tackle rundowns as highlights

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DocT]

Wow!
Mundy was in a different stratosphere as a player compared to Brayshaw.
One was a beast whose smooth moving & skills with multiple high skilled highlights, while the other is an honest workhorse with below average skills who relies purely on work ethic & has mostly tackle rundowns as highlights

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ouch! Bit harsh. I've heard Brayshaw described by his peers several times as 'the best two-way running player in the league'. His skills may not be elite but they are not below average.

 

[Minz]

Wow!
Mundy was in a different stratosphere as a player compared to Brayshaw.
One was a beast whose smooth moving & skills with multiple high skilled highlights, while the other is an honest workhorse with below average skills who relies purely on work ethic & has mostly tackle rundowns as highlights

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Gunna disagree with you on that one. Brayshaw has won awards through being a ball magnet. Everyone indeed loves a run-down tackle, but those guys don’t win MVPs.

Unless you’re trying to prepare yourself for him signing elsewhere? In which case I will indeed tell myself that he’s a spud with below-average skills But that is not very optimistic… optimistically, I expect he will sign on!

 

[Purpletown]

Interesting to compare the two midfields.

2013 v 2024

Sandi > Darcy
Fyfe - Serong
Mundy > Brayshaw
Barlow < Young
Hill > Johnson
Mzungu - Sharp
Crowley > Fyfe
Neale > ODriscoll

Johnno and Dris break outs would really have a big impact on the team, probably more than improvement from any other players.

What an interesting comparison of the 2013 midfield vs the 2024 version.

Both are outstanding midfields however the 2013 version is slightly ahead on paper in my mind with Hill being a clear winner against Johnson and Neal being a clear winner against NOD. Most of the other comparisons are reasonably close.

It is relevant that most of the 2024 midfield has a reasonable amount of improvement in them.

Our memory of most of the 2013 group is of the peak version of them while the reality is that they were not all at their peak at that particular time.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Wow!
Mundy was in a different stratosphere as a player compared to Brayshaw.
One was a beast whose smooth moving & skills with multiple high skilled highlights, while the other is an honest workhorse with below average skills who relies purely on work ethic & has mostly tackle rundowns as highlights

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Tell us how yyou really feel?

 

[Joao]

Gunna disagree with you on that one. Brayshaw has won awards through being a ball magnet. Everyone indeed loves a run-down tackle, but those guys don’t win MVPs.

Unless you’re trying to prepare yourself for him signing elsewhere? In which case I will indeed tell myself that he’s a spud with below-average skills But that is not very optimistic… optimistically, I expect he will sign on!

There's history here...

 

[eastfreo75]

You are having a laugh if dockers can make top 4 this season after a horrible 2 seasons. You are essentially asking for a Chris Connolly 2006 season. Unlikely but possible.

I can tolerate a home Elim final won in 2025

Last year if we beat either the Giants or Cats plus win another game, we will have been top 4.

We had an injury crisis with our talls but I am really confident that our back up bigs will be better. Voss, Davies, Draper and Reidy will be better than what they were.

Bolton adds x factor and lost no players who make an impact.

Our list a year older and with so many players with upside.

In Terms of goal differences, we were 7th at 1.4+ per game, increase it to 2.2 or more we are mostly top 4. Last season Swans 2.9 and Lions 2.4. Port only 0.5 but they were 6-1 in games 7 points and under.

Plus we have an extra home.

 

[Quazar2]

Last year if we beat either the Giants or Cats plus win another game, we will have been top 4.

We had an injury crisis with our talls but I am really confident that our back up bigs will be better. Voss, Davies, Draper and Reidy will be better than what they were.

Bolton adds x factor and lost no players who make an impact.

Our list a year older and with so many players with upside.

In Terms of goal differences, we were 7th at 1.4+ per game, increase it to 2.2 or more we are mostly top 4. Last season Swans 2.9 and Lions 2.4. Port only 0.5 but they were 6-1 in games 7 points and under.

Plus we have an extra home.

 

[Freomaniac]

Last year if we beat either the Giants or Cats plus win another game, we will have been top 4.

We had an injury crisis with our talls but I am really confident that our back up bigs will be better. Voss, Davies, Draper and Reidy will be better than what they were.

Bolton adds x factor and lost no players who make an impact.

Our list a year older and with so many players with upside.

In Terms of goal differences, we were 7th at 1.4+ per game, increase it to 2.2 or more we are mostly top 4. Last season Swans 2.9 and Lions 2.4. Port only 0.5 but they were 6-1 in games 7 points and under.

Plus we have an extra home.

That's all true and nice.

But convince me other wise we will at least make finals in 2025?

What makes you think he will be top 4 again with 3 games to go?

We can be top 4 with 3 games to go, lose all 3 of those last games and still miss out on finals.


It's a docker.... I mean a Dockery thing to do.

 

[Freomaniac]

It’s pretty funny reading Freomaniac posts in the optimism thread

Mate I was optimistic and positive when the 2017 season ended when we got 8 wins and 14th spot.

The year before we were 0-10 and crippled with injuries and laughed at opposition fans.

At the end the day, we build ourselves up hope we go well. By the end of the season we fall short and don't make finals.

The Victorian media has pumped us up to make top 4 and win the flag. We are hyped up to unrealistic expectations.

We miss out on finals, we will be punished, mocked and Justin Longmuir will be sacked.

We don't make finals, that is 5 years out of 6 years of no finals.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Optimism:

noun

1. 1.
   hopefulness and confidence about the future or the success of something.

 

[oldgoat]

Wow!
Mundy was in a different stratosphere as a player compared to Brayshaw.
One was a beast whose smooth moving & skills with multiple high skilled highlights, while the other is an honest workhorse with below average skills who relies purely on work ethic & has mostly tackle rundowns as highlights

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Below average, different stratosphere ?
Well pull my extendable and call me Suma!
I never knew that.
Thankyou DeeQ!