Rich Or Yarran?

[Monkey King]

Two rebound fifties each.

I saw those stats. So what do you think that means TBD? For me, whether a player is standing in the back 50 when he takes the ball is pretty arbitrary and meaningless, but you obviously think this has major significance. Do you think this means Yarran doesn't not play forward of centre? I'm puzzled and await your explanation. There is a reason Yaz bounces the ball so often you know. LOL.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I saw those stats. So what do you think that means TBD? For me, whether a player is standing in the back 50 when he takes the ball is pretty arbitrary and meaningless, but you obviously thinks this has major significance. Do you think this means Yarran doesn't play forward of centre? I'm puzzled and await your explanation.

My explanation is that Rich plays in the engine room but works hard enough to influence at all ends of the ground and provides significantly more value than Yarran. When Yarran finally makes the long vaunted midfield move, we can make direct comparisons but I feel confident as to who will emerge on top.

You don't have to come defend TheGeneral everytime he takes a post that praises Rich (and doesn't even mention Yarran) as a personal insult, so decides to puff out his chest and question the courage of players who have put their body on the line again and again. If you are comfortable with Yarran, great! The defensive posturing tells a different story though.

 

[Monkey King]

My explanation is that Rich plays in the engine room but works hard enough to influence at all ends of the ground and provides significantly more value than Yarran. When Yarran finally makes the long vaunted midfield move, we can make direct comparisons but I feel confident as to who will emerge on top.

If you think Rich's 2 R50's indicate he is more effective coming out of the back-half than Yarran, then what can I say? I mean seriously? What can you say to something like that? Watch more footy? I'm at a loss.

You don't have to come defend TheGeneral everytime he takes a post that praises Rich (and doesn't even mention Yarran) as a personal insult, so decides to puff out his chest and question the courage of players who have put their body on the line again and again. If you are comfortable with Yarran, great! The defensive posturing tells a different story though.

TG and I aren't pals mate. His posts have nothing to do with my reply.

The defensive posturing is your illusion. I posted because I thought your assessment of Yarran's game was quite poor. A defender impacting that much up forward deserves its recognition. And with a 133% F50 entry efficiency it gets even better. That you alluded he didn't tear it up in this game playing out of defense, while Rich is some superstar in the walk-in-the-park Bulldogs game needed to be addressed.

Am I happy with Yarran? Wouldn't trade him for Rich even if the Lions added a deal sweetener.

 

[Viceregal]

What really pounds this home is Yarran having 1 goal and 3 assists from just 3 forward 50 entries. That's a 133% efficiency on forward 50 entries compared to Rich's 55%.

Ok I am confused (admittedly not that hard) ... how can you get four goals from three forward entries?

 

[Monkey King]

Ok I am confused (admittedly not that hard) ... how can you get four goals from three forward entries?

Well ... Yarran is Neo-esque on a footy field

LOL. Nah. I'm assuming he was already inside 50 when receiving the ball for one of those stats.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Yarran had one good game this year. One.

 

[Dom PC]

I know who I'd be tagging first if I had to vs both of them in the same team. Rich! as would most people. Certainly not the down hill skier who is average defender - to his credit good rebounder.

 

[Monkey King]

Yarran had one good game this year. One.

You reckon Yaz is an average kick, which kind of disqualifies your opinions on the bloke from being anything insightful. Before injury Yaz had a couple of white hot games. You should probably watch them before passing comment. LOL

 

[Schulzenfest]

Me and anyone else who doesn't get sucked in by media hype. Unless he's being told to constantly kick the ball at the feet or over the head of Carlton players?

Anyway, you reckon Brett Ratten has a better coaching record than Rodney Eade, which probably disqualifies you from commenting on anything football related at all.

 

[Harris Specter]

Am I happy with Yarran? Wouldn't trade him for Rich even if the Lions added a deal sweetener.

Lucky you're not Carlton's recruitment manager then.

 

[Monkey King]

Certainly not the down hill skier who is average defender

I've never understood the need to down talk players with extreme cliche. Certainly, it never adds to one's argument.

Outside of your head or mine though are enough "experts" who will tell you that letting Yarran run free is a stupid move.

 

[Harris Specter]

I've never understood the need to down talk players with extreme cliche. Certainly, it never adds to one's argument.

Outside of your head or mine though are enough "experts" who will tell you that letting Yarran run free is a stupid move.

But he's not the first one you'd think about tagging if you're the opposition coach.
He's easy to shut down when a defensive forward is put on him.

 

[Monkey King]

Lucky you're not Carlton's recruitment manager then.

Hahahahahahahaha. Yeah I know, I might have gone and done something like draft Yarran before Rich. LOL.

Not a lot of bright sparks in this thread.

 

[Monkey King]

Me and anyone else who doesn't get sucked in by media hype. Unless he's being told to constantly kick the ball at the feet or over the head of Carlton players?

Yeah right. Media hype

At some point, you've got to ask yourself why you're missing what everyone else sees.

Until you answer that question, I can't help you.

Anyway, you reckon Brett Ratten has a better coaching record than Rodney Eade, which probably disqualifies you from commenting on anything football related at all.

Like usual, rather than deal with what was actually said and in it's context, the only way you can approach it is to twist and bullshit. Is it any wonder what you're left with is utter babble?

 

[Monkey King]

But he's not the first one you'd think about tagging if you're the opposition coach.
He's easy to shut down when a defensive forward is put on him.

Actually, I reckon Yarran would be among the top 2-3 at Carlton looked at being tagged by opposition coaches after either Murphy and Judd. I know the cliche rolls that he's easy to shut down, but if you actually go to games you will have seen him deal with such tags effectively a number of times. Of course this doesn't mean he's never been effectively shut down though, but that's not unusual for a 20-21yo. You've got to ask yourself why a segment of BF jump on these performances and start pretending it's a standard. You just lack knowledge on the player is all.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Like usual, rather than deal with what was actually said and in it's context, the only way you can approach it is to twist and bullshit. Is it any wonder what you're left with is utter babble?

It was a ridiculous comment in any context.

At some point, you've got to ask yourself why you're missing what everyone else sees.

Speaking of twist and bullshit

'The media' = 'everyone else'. They jump on the flashy players who can provide a few highlights for their gazillion talk shows. Yarran is one of these. My club isn't immune from this either. David Rodan is the same.

Just out of interest, have you asked yourself why you're missing what pretty much everyone else who's voted on this poll has seen?

 

[Dom PC]

I've never understood the need to down talk players with extreme cliche. Certainly, it never adds to one's argument.

Outside of your head or mine though are enough "experts" who will tell you that letting Yarran run free is a stupid move.

Where did I talk about letting Yarran run free? All I said is if I'm vsing both. I'd tag Rich 1st just like most people.

By sheer coincidence I bet you don't buy into the going by the poll's result. It says you lose champ.

 

[Monkey King]

It was a ridiculous comment in any context.

No. But you certainly found the most ridiculous context to frame it in.

If you want to discuss this though, start a thread on the topic and we'll revisit what was said.

'The media' = 'everyone else'. They jump on the flashy players who can provide a few highlights for their gazillion talk shows. Yarran is one of these. My club isn't immune from this either. David Rodan is the same.

Yes I agree with you that Yarran and his flash gets him noticed where other may not. Nothing to do with talk shows though. You're sounding a lot like Hodgepodge here. Yarran getting noticed for his flash has nothing to do with his disposal though. Multiple commentators don't just laud a players disposal during a match and no one else's just because he is flashy. Even those who dig into Yarran have the footy sense to notice his foot skills are elite.

Just out of interest, have you asked yourself why you're missing what pretty much everyone else who's voted on this poll has seen?

Here we have two distinct things. One is noticing a players attribute - something less related to opinion and more related to observation. The other is rating which player you like better. The very realm of opinion. I really question your ability to be able to think your way through a problem given the way you've mixed these two together.

 

[Monkey King]

Where did I talk about letting Yarran run free? All I said is if I'm vsing both. I'd tag Rich 1st just like most people.

Sorry. I just figured that's what would happen if you didn't tag him

By sheer coincidence I bet you don't buy into the going by the poll's result. It says you lose champ.

Group thinking doesn't mean you've won anything other than having the same opinion as the majority.

I've made a tidy living putting my assessment up against that of the group, as it's quite often irrational.


Out of interest though, does anyone know what the original poll results were before the site makeover?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Sorry. I just figured that's what would happen if you didn't tag him

Pretty clear that DOM's point was that if you had to deal with both at once, you'd tag Rich.

Out of interest though, does anyone know what the original poll results were before the site makeover?

Similarly telling.

 

[Monkey King]

Pretty clear that DOM's point was that if you had to deal with both at once, you'd tag Rich.

And to frame that he referenced Yarran as a down hill skier and an average defender.

I fail to see what the problem with my reply was really. Seems DOM could have done with the info.

Personally I'd be more likely to hard-tag Yarran and put a Judd or Murphy head-to-head with Rich.

Similarly telling.

Thanks. I don't know why they didn't update the polls when they spruced up the site.

 

[Dom PC]

And to frame that he referenced Yarran as a down hill skier and an average defender.

I fail to see what the problem with my reply was really. Seems DOM could have done with the info.

Personally I'd be more likely to hard-tag Yarran and put a Judd or Murphy head-to-head with Rich.

Explain your logic please.
So your saying that you believe its easier to tag Yarran out of the game than Rich ? And that it would be better to have Rich go against your best mid so they can go blow for blow? (i.e. your best mid against their best mid)

Yarran isn't the worst down hill skier I've seen... but he certainly doesn't look amiss in the catagory. Harry O'Brien is another I put as a player only on song when everyone around in defence him is on song. Anyway, off topic.

 

[Monkey King]

Explain your logic please.
So your saying that you believe its easier to tag Yarran out of the game than Rich ? And that it would be better to have Rich go against your best mid so they can go blow for blow? (i.e. your best mid against their best mid)

No. Not easier. As I've said, I've seen Yaz handle these tags reasonably well before. It's more about damage control. If you don't pay attention to a fit Yarran, chances are he's going to be pretty damaging on the rebound, so I'd go the defensive forward tag with teammates to keep an eye for his man and try to catch Yaz out on the rebound. In this way trying to limit his damage somewhat while exploiting some damage the other way. The plan would be that the damage balance would fall to my side of the ledger.

For Rich, I tend to like the Collingwood way of not over-tagging in the midfield, so I'd either go head to head with one of our best mids to both free them up from a tag and to try to out-damage Rich. For example I'd be confident that Murphy could deliver in this respect more often than not. Alternatively, you could send Carrots to him, who shuts down but gets a lot of his own ball as well, but that would depend on how Redden's playing too.

Yarran isn't the worst down hill skier I've seen... but he certainly doesn't look amiss in the catagory. Harry O'Brien is another I put as a player only on song when everyone around in defence him is on song. Anyway, off topic.

I think the downhill skier tag is a real cop out. I've seen Yaz stand up for the team in tight situations. Can't recall the exact game but there was a match this year where the Blues were kept in it by Yarran and would most likely have lost if not for his efforts. My biggest knocks on Yarran are consistency across a range of areas (not a surprise for a 21yo) and defending above his head. A lot of the other stuff that gets said about him on BF however seems geared towards agenda rather than assessment.

 

[100action]

As a neutral supporter I can objectively say Rich is better than Yarran. Rich was getting tagged a long time before Yarran and performs far better under one, furthermore as an outside type player that directly depends on a good team, he has not had that luxury compared to Carlton. Without a tag both are pretty damaging, Rich is harder at the ball whilst Yarran is dual sided, Rich's ability to perform under a tag elevates him to a tier above.

 

[Bardo State]

At what point does the fact that Yarran hasn't actually played that well actually come into the equation?

I mean how long do his "potential" tickets last before he actually has to perform to a high level?

He's played one really good game and about 3-4 good ones. I'll tell you this. One of these players averages 20+ disposals in a bad team, is good for a goal a game, will get 3+ tackles a match, and deliver inside 50 about 5 times with almost half their possesions contested and have 4 clearances. The other will bounce the ball a few times.

How is this even up for debate?