Opinion Robert Muir

[Max Milburn]

No, that was John Bourke from Collingwood (in the reserves). And it was Phil Carman who headbutted the boundary umpire.

It's so wrong, but I laughed when I read this.
Just can't imagine that happening now.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Yes.

But lets not put Muir on a pedestal. He was an absolutely thug both on and off the field. Would regularly belt blokes in the lower leagues behind play

Thats it - you have to look at both sides

Playing for StKilda against a young Brad Hardie playing for South Fremantle out at Waverly - Hardie said on the radio that at the start of the 3rd qtr - Muir said to him you are playing well - then when the siren sounded to start the 3rd qtr - Muir kicked Hardie as hard as he could in the shins - Hardie could hardly walk

How many times did Muir get reported for kicking - even before he became an AFL player

I listened to Syd Jacksons podcast - taken at 5 years of age with alot of kids - put on trucks - then no choice - just put into an institution - he had it very tough - but look at his career - look at his life

You have to be responsible for your actions

 

[year of the cat]

Thats it - you have to look at both sides

Playing for StKilda against a young Brad Hardie playing for South Fremantle out at Waverly - Hardie said on the radio that at the start of the 3rd qtr - Muir said to him you are playing well - then when the siren sounded to start the 3rd qtr - Muir kicked Hardie as hard as he could in the shins - Hardie could hardly walk

How many times did Muir get reported for kicking - even before he became an AFL player

I listened to Syd Jacksons podcast - taken at 5 years of age with alot of kids - put on trucks - then no choice - just put into an institution - he had it very tough - but look at his career - look at his life

You have to be responsible for your actions

Everyone is wired differently. To say that just because Jackson was able to put it aside that Muir should have responded the same is very unfair. If you read the article Muir was brutalised by his father as a child. So there were clearly deep seated issues before the added strain of being exposed to having to deal with systemic racism as a VFL player. To me it's no bloody wonder he responded as he did. He would have felt angry, confused and tormented. I don't think victim blaming is in anyway appropriate.

 

[Partridge]

Everyone is wired differently. To say that just because Jackson was able to put it aside that Muir should have responded the same is very unfair. If you read the article Muir was brutalised by his father as a child. So there were clearly deep seated issues before the added strain of being exposed to having to deal with systemic racism as a VFL player. To me it's no bloody wonder he responded as he did. He would have felt angry, confused and tormented. I don't think victim blaming is in anyway appropriate.

To an extent. But it's also unfair to say as an adult you're not responsible for your actions.

Plenty of people - and I bet a few on here - have had traumatic experiences in childhood, if not traumatic childhoods. Doesn't give us the right to go around hitting people (or throwing knives at police officers). He's still responsible for that.

 

[Footy Smarts]

To an extent. But it's also unfair to say as an adult you're not responsible for your actions.

Plenty of people - and I bet a few on here - have had traumatic experiences in childhood, if not traumatic childhoods. Doesn't give us the right to go around hitting people (or throwing knives at police officers). He's still responsible for that.

He's clearly been punished many times over for his indiscretions. It doesn't in any way absolve him but it's nice that finally it looks like he's got some support around him and is somewhat happy.

The saddest part is the lack of consistency and how the footy establishment benefited from furthering his abuse. He had huge issues and was left in poverty but the only "help" the footy establishment offered was to increase the abuse and dehumanisation by laughing at him on the footy show. He was a willing participant in the same way paying a couple of homeless people money to beat the crap out of each other are willing participants.

At the same time some similar thugs on and off field are lauded as stars and their violence ignored (Carey the most obvious example but there are plenty). It's nice that the AFL (and the footy establishment in general) are having their bullshit exposed.

 

[year of the cat]

To an extent. But it's also unfair to say as an adult you're not responsible for your actions.

Plenty of people - and I bet a few on here - have had traumatic experiences in childhood, if not traumatic childhoods. Doesn't give us the right to go around hitting people (or throwing knives at police officers). He's still responsible for that.

I would defy most of us to endure what he went through and not respond similarly. Without wanting to sound like a bleeding heart, I think the days of saying ''just suck it up" are gone. We need to be better than that.

 

[James1970]

What a bullshit post you could call anyone anything back then and there was no don't do this it is wrong...in sport you could say what you like.....yes now it's wrong but you can not change the past

Disgraceful post - sober up.

 

[Cicatriz]

A genuine apology from the club is the best way forward in this case. Fairly simple stuff.

 

[Down at K Park]

No, that was John Bourke from Collingwood (in the reserves). And it was Phil Carman who headbutted the boundary umpire.

Must be thinking of the time he went off at the umpire, and kept throwing his mouth guard into the ground before he stormed off.

He's clearly been punished many times over for his indiscretions. It doesn't in any way absolve him but it's nice that finally it looks like he's got some support around him and is somewhat happy.

The saddest part is the lack of consistency and how the footy establishment benefited from furthering his abuse. He had huge issues and was left in poverty but the only "help" the footy establishment offered was to increase the abuse and dehumanisation by laughing at him on the footy show. He was a willing participant in the same way paying a couple of homeless people money to beat the crap out of each other are willing participants.

At the same time some similar thugs on and off field are lauded as stars and their violence ignored (Carey the most obvious example but there are plenty). It's nice that the AFL (and the footy establishment in general) are having their bullshit exposed.

Is anyone surprised Eddie "king kong" maguire was involved? Maybe he was just tired that day too.

 

[Partridge]

He's clearly been punished many times over for his indiscretions. It doesn't in any way absolve him but it's nice that finally it looks like he's got some support around him and is somewhat happy.

The saddest part is the lack of consistency and how the footy establishment benefited from furthering his abuse. He had huge issues and was left in poverty but the only "help" the footy establishment offered was to increase the abuse and dehumanisation by laughing at him on the footy show. He was a willing participant in the same way paying a couple of homeless people money to beat the crap out of each other are willing participants.

At the same time some similar thugs on and off field are lauded as stars and their violence ignored (Carey the most obvious example but there are plenty). It's nice that the AFL (and the footy establishment in general) are having their bullshit exposed.

I'd actually have Matthews and Brereton ahead of Carey but otherwise agree.

 

[PhatBoy]

What a bullshit post you could call anyone anything back then and there was no don't do this it is wrong...in sport you could say what you like.....yes now it's wrong but you can not change the past

Sorry who said you could say what you like? "They"? "The guys"? How hard is it to understand that singling someone out because the sperm and/or egg of their parents was from a different racial genome than that of white people is wrong? Wow.

 

[PhatBoy]

Thats it - you have to look at both sides

Playing for StKilda against a young Brad Hardie playing for South Fremantle out at Waverly - Hardie said on the radio that at the start of the 3rd qtr - Muir said to him you are playing well - then when the siren sounded to start the 3rd qtr - Muir kicked Hardie as hard as he could in the shins - Hardie could hardly walk

How many times did Muir get reported for kicking - even before he became an AFL player

I listened to Syd Jacksons podcast - taken at 5 years of age with alot of kids - put on trucks - then no choice - just put into an institution - he had it very tough - but look at his career - look at his life

You have to be responsible for your actions

how does crossing the line on a football field suddenly put you into debt on the humanity scale to be racially vilified? What does one have to do with the other?

Hypothetically if say, Steven Baker was gay - would his questionable tactics make it right for every man and his dog to call him F****ot or constantly abuse him because of his sexuality?

 

[Footy Smarts]

I'd actually have Matthews and Brereton ahead of Carey but otherwise agree.

I don't mark the on field stuff as harshly. As awful as it was it was how the game was played and thugs were dime a dozen. Which probably makes it worse they Muir was one of the few remembered for that.

But Carey has a huge history of violence off field too. It's never mentioned though. To the extent that a few years ago he was commentating on a game where a team (Carlton I think) was highlighting the issue of domestic violence. Just revealed a joke the AFL is.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I'd actually have Matthews and Brereton ahead of Carey but otherwise agree.

And to his credit Brereton despite being a complete idiot in many ways has owned up to a bunch of stuff and has a couple of times tried to use his status to educate. It was good to hear at least one well known guy from that period admit to the racial abuse (against Chris Lewis) and show what seemed like genuine remorse about it. My respect for him grew a lot from that (which wasn't difficult).

 

[Partridge]

I don't mark the on field stuff as harshly. As awful as it was it was how the game was played and thugs were dime a dozen. Which probably makes it worse they Muir was one of the few remembered for that.

But Carey has a huge history of violence off field too. It's never mentioned though. To the extent that a few years ago he was commentating on a game where a team (Carlton I think) was highlighting the issue of domestic violence. Just revealed a joke the AFL is.

Yep that's pretty fair I reckon. Was a very different time and attitude.

 

[Drunkcat]

how does crossing the line on a football field suddenly put you into debt on the humanity scale to be racially vilified? What does one have to do with the other?

Hypothetically if say, Steven Baker was gay - would his questionable tactics make it right for every man and his dog to call him F****ot or constantly abuse him because of his sexuality?

Yes it was ok you must not have played footy you had mates back then that you called wog they laughed if you did not you was told suck it up

 

[PhatBoy]

Yes it was ok you must not have played footy you had mates back then that you called wog they laughed if you did not you was told suck it up

Yes it was hard for me to get a game being non-existent at the time.
Tends to set you back in the pecking order when the match committee sit down to pick their team.
"This guy hasn't kicked a goal all season."
"Ah, he hasn't been born yet."
"Put him on the bench for the reserves."

So because other people expect you to be ok with racism in a certain era, you should just be ok with it.

 

[you pick one]

Yes it was hard for me to get a game being non-existent at the time.
Tends to set you back in the pecking order when the match committee sit down to pick their team.
"This guy hasn't kicked a goal all season."
"Ah, he hasn't been born yet."
"Put him on the bench for the reserves."

So because other people expect you to be ok with racism in a certain era, you should just be ok with it.

I grew up in a time when sledging was the done thing we sledged everyone opponents neighbours people from all countries even our own family black and white and everything in between it made no difference, and with every conceivable bait and I stand here today and tell you I never ever thought of it as racist then and by today's standards it clearly was,would I apologise for it today no ****ing way,would I do it today not a lot of it.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Yes it was hard for me to get a game being non-existent at the time.
Tends to set you back in the pecking order when the match committee sit down to pick their team.
"This guy hasn't kicked a goal all season."
"Ah, he hasn't been born yet."
"Put him on the bench for the reserves."

I heard you were training the house down and having a massive prenatal season.

 

[PhatBoy]

I grew up in a time when sledging was the done thing we sledged everyone opponents neighbours people from all countries even our own family black and white and everything in between it made no difference, and with every conceivable bait and I stand here today and tell you I never ever thought of it as racist then and by today's standards it clearly was,would I apologise for it today no ******* way,would I do it today not a lot of it.

What is so bad about apologising for it?

Looking back now, I bullied a kid in primary school. I didn't think anything of it then and he took it with fairly good nature back then but one day a few years ago I stopped and thought 'gee I was a real prick to that kid and I would have hated to have that sort of thing done to me.' So I apologised - thankfully we had still kept in some sort of contact.

What the hell do I lose out by saying 'sorry mate I wish I hadn't done that.'

 

[bellpark]

So far, Saints, AFL, SANFL and Woodville and West Torrens FC's reaching out to Robbie - nothing from the Cats - its not a race, but I would be dissappointed if they are wringing their hands on this and don't see it as a clear case requiring an apology.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Yes it was ok you must not have played footy you had mates back then that you called wog they laughed if you did not you was told suck it up

Had a pretty good mate who I played juniors with; he had 10 times more talent in his little finger than the rest of our team put together - West Indian heritage, I think, I'd be lying if I said I remembered where his family originally came from though (he was born in Australia) - the amount of moronic 'jokes' that this kid had to put up with just so that he could play the game he loved (and dominated) - from his own teammates and the coach - was appalling; I was able to recognise that even back then.

Was I so special in recognising this collective racism as being wrong?
No.

Because it was never ok to racially discriminate against him, or anyone, on the basis of their racial background, and just because people did do it didn't make it right - this was back in the time of Apartheid in Sth Africa, where systemic racism was sanctioned, legal and in practice led to the segregation of the African and non-white people of that country - this legislation was openly condemned around the globe for decades, leading to all manner of sanctions.

Australia's political response suggested that our country condemned Sth Africa's despicable stance too; it was all over the world news for a very very long time.
And yet there always seemed to be a dumbarse subset of bogans seemingly wilfully ignorant and able to convince themselves that it was all just a bit of a joke.

This kid and I became pretty good mates for a while to the extent that I hung out at his place a fair bit over one summer; I still remember his sisters and his old man explaining to me how much those jokes hurt him, despite the brave front to the contrary that he elected to adopt.
He ended up getting drafted by North Melbourne; didn't play any senior footy but he was a huge talent. Pretty sure he went close to kicking a ton at VFL/AFL U/19 level.

I also played for a club in the Dandenongs where a ton of Italian families provided the backbone of the local community's footy club - potato farmers for the most part - if you called them 'wog' you'd be considered either a) very brave or b) very very stupid.

 

[winty]

So far, Saints, AFL, SANFL and Woodville and West Torrens FC's reaching out to Robbie - nothing from the Cats - its not a race, but I would be dissappointed if they are wringing their hands on this and don't see it as a clear case requiring an apology.

Fear not. It's behind a pesky pay-wall, but there is an article on the Geelong Advertiser website saying the club have apologised to Muir about that incident back in 1984.

 

[cats_09]

Apology from the club

“The allegations of abuse by some Geelong players that were highlighted in Robert’s story were painful to read and he is owed an apology,” Geelong said in a statement.

“Sadly in the past, racism towards Aboriginal players was a blight on the game and caused significant damage to those that were subjected to this abuse.

“The work that has been done in the years since has seen significant change in the way Aboriginal and players from multicultural backgrounds are treated. This work is ongoing and will continue as a major focus at our club and for all in the game.”

No Cookies | Geelong Advertiser

No Cookies

www.geelongadvertiser.com.au

 

[iameviljez]

Geelong from that era has a fair bit to apologise for - that, plus the cornering of a gay Geelong identity in a nightclub and pissing all over him, plus the origin of Mick Turner's nickname "windows"... it's not nice stuff.