Round 1 preview: Essendon

[Crow-mo]

just got me on the wrong day

well played

 

[noddy]

Your mob are going to be the first ones to test and see if a Lloyd,Johns,Lucas,Hird,Monfries and Davey(?) can work for us.


Should be interesting indeed

Some great players there & if they are supplied with the ball lace up & often enough will do plenty of damage.

As much as i have been a major plus for Matty Bode in the starting 22 in the past i'm now looking elsewhere for someone to take over his spot.


Crows by 21.

If we win by heaps more then extreme confidence is restored for seasons end.

 

[Stiffy_18]

These are good questions and the most appropriate challenging of my views I have seen (without emotional claptrap)

The 3 points you raise are completely true and those facts do not support my POV.

But also in those 4 years we have been close to the prize but no cigar ....so ...one assumes there are weaknesses in our team that have to be addressed to advance that one step.

It's often said that the step from second to first is the biggest step of all ....

That means that there ARE players in our side over those years that have been good enough a) to get consistent games B) have been good enough to get us to 2 preliminary finals .......BUT are they good enough to get us to the ultimate prize.

This is where it gets tough ... but also where really tough decisions have to be made.
Everyone wants the next crop of young midfielders to get games but very very few are prepared to name players that will make way for them.

Here's my point where everyone gets lost in that what Iam saying (and I have said this manytimes so Iam amused that people misinterpret) is that in time the players in the team that I see making way for these new players is Bode, McGregor and Shirley.
That's not to say that they should not still be picked on performance and that the next crop have to earn their spots. Iam just identifying the weakest links.

Why these two:
Bode: slow, not great disposal and I believe even now that Porplyzia is a more talented player and better option.

Shirley: if Brownlow medals were given for effort he's surely win one but I could say the same for Skipworth in his efforts to play AFL. I just don't think he's the most talented on our list and ultimately I think he'll be replaced with an equally comitted player with more talent and ability to hurt the opposition as a tagger.

McGregor: Workhorse in the Mensch mould, yes fills a role as a tall but not attacking enough as a backman in Craigs gamestyle and not enough tricks as a forward particularly as he rarely leaps for balls.

Interesting that last year when I mentioned Van Berlo as a tagging option people said it was a waste of talent for a tagging role ...guess what role VB is doing now ???

Iam a strong believer within the AFL of the need for successful AFL teams to have talented commited players .....the dogged ones get you so far and keep you competitive BUT talent win flags

Fair enough but your views regarding Shirley still fail when we bring in the B&F placing of the last 2 years.

If he is the weaker link, how come he ends up in being top 10 players for the year for us in the last 2 years?! Surely that would suggest that there are at least 5 players that are weaker links than him

I understand where you are coming from in players needing to make ways for youngsters and as I have said many times before, those things will take care of themselves. McGregor is obviously struggling and it only takes someone to come in for him and do well enough to hold his place in the side and Kenny has an unhill battle to regain his spot.

Bode's pre-season form has been indifferent and he is on thin ice. A couple of bad games or an injury and his spot is up for grabs. There is an internal competition between these players and thats the way we want it.

Shirley is the saftest of those 3 IMHO. He keeps doing what is asked of him and he keeps getting picked and into the first 18 nonetheless.

 

[pinkcrows]

where is John meesen? will he be playing for the crows in 08?

 

[-CG-]

where is John meesen? will he be playing for the crows in 08?

If he doesn't leave I'd like to think so. He might get a couple of games this year.

 

[mckinale]

Porplyzia?

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Porplyzia?

Should be in the mix for round 1. Progressing well after injury.

 

[CarnCrows]

The fact is most people agree we have around 22-25 players who could (or maybe deserve) a spot in round 1. NC has to decide if he is going to bite the bullet and play the younger guys and in doing so will step on someones toes.

I think (with no intended disrespect for the Dons) that round 1 will be an ideal game to give a couple of the younger (and quicker?) guys a go. They can then continue into round 2, against a fast and young bulldogs. After that they can then swap again if needed.

With hard-ball gets, Huddo will help that out enourmously

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Fair enough but your views regarding Shirley still fail when we bring in the B&F placing of the last 2 years.

If he is the weaker link, how come he ends up in being top 10 players for the year for us in the last 2 years?! Surely that would suggest that there are at least 5 players that are weaker links than him

I understand where you are coming from in players needing to make ways for youngsters and as I have said many times before, those things will take care of themselves. McGregor is obviously struggling and it only takes someone to come in for him and do well enough to hold his place in the side and Kenny has an unhill battle to regain his spot.
Bode's pre-season form has been indifferent and he is on thin ice. A couple of bad games or an injury and his spot is up for grabs. There is an internal competition between these players and thats the way we want it.

Shirley is the saftest of those 3 IMHO. He keeps doing what is asked of him and he keeps getting picked and into the first 18 nonetheless.

All 3 highlighted statements are correct ....I was however ripped apart for forcasting last year the scenario with Kenny and also ripped apart a couple of weeks ago in suggesting the same for Bode.
But both as you say are on thin ice and as players like Sellar, Tippett, Griffin, Meesen come through who obviously have more talent then at some stage he was in a precarious situation ....the fact I was saying this a season ago ...

I agree Shirley has brownie points that I agree gives him rights over the other two ....but again IMO not by much.
Despite some saying he was in our best players against Port ...if you look at the game it really was abysmal .....he had a stint in the third quarter that was right up there with Jericho in the NAB final.

I do not agree that a team has to have two taggers ....and I believe that the very talented Douglas, Porplyzia, Knights and Vince have to be accomodated.

I was also thinking that in our recruiting plans we would have factored into our 2005 draft selections the thought we would be getting Gibbs ...hence going tall.

Now if we had also Gibbs to fit into the midfield ....I'm not sure how you accommodate all these and retain Shirley????

I also believe next year we'll be going for midfielders again and that will exasperate the pressure on Shirley.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Although S.Stevens does have an incredible knack of making his doubters look stupid....

It wasn't long ago that he had an incredible knack for making himself look stupid.

This season he's one of our most important players. We really cannot afford to have any more than 1 of Bock, Stevens and McGregor injured or out of form at any one time. I'm very interested to see how Steveo will go against Lucas. Hopefully he can improve even more on last years very solid effort.

 

[Glenno23]

It wasn't long ago that he had an incredible knack for making himself look stupid.

This season he's one of our most important players. We really cannot afford to have any more than 1 of Bock, Stevens and McGregor injured or out of form at any one time. I'm very interested to see how Steveo will go against Lucas. Hopefully he can improve even more on last years very solid effort.

I feel Stevens will be outmuscled by Lucas quite convincingly and he might tear us up because of it.......

question is, who gets Lloyd this game? who played on him last time?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Rutten played on Pretty Boy Lloyd last time he played against us which was back in 2005 IIRC and gave him a bath.

The trick with Stevens is that he tried to avoid body on body type contest because he known he will lose more often than not but he makes this up by positioning himself to come in from the side and spoil or mark the ball. Stevens is a very football smart player and plays to his strengths.

Of course there will be times when going body on body is unavoidable. Stevens will give it his best shot but more often than not he will fail in those contests. I see him more as a 3rd tall than a true KPP and something tells me we see him as a long term Bassett replacement and someone else coming in and holding down a CHB position. Either Nathan Bock or Trent Hentschel, allowing of course for development of Sellar and Tippett as key forwards.

Nut just back on topic, I agree with Wayne's World that Porplyzia is in the best 22. Cleanest pair of hands in close, great skills on both sides of the body and his versatility will see him get a spot. Thats assuming that he has improved his aerobic capacity and is ready to spend some regular time in the midfield rather than pinch hit there.

 

[johnnypanther]

Re: Round 1 preview: Essendoni think that we definitely have a show at the flag - just need some luc

All 3 highlighted statements are correct ....I was however ripped apart for forcasting last year the scenario with Kenny and also ripped apart a couple of weeks ago in suggesting the same for Bode.
But both as you say are on thin ice and as players like Sellar, Tippett, Griffin, Meesen come through who obviously have more talent then at some stage he was in a precarious situation ....the fact I was saying this a season ago ...

I agree Shirley has brownie points that I agree gives him rights over the other two ....but again IMO not by much.
Despite some saying he was in our best players against Port ...if you look at the game it really was abysmal .....he had a stint in the third quarter that was right up there with Jericho in the NAB final.

I do not agree that a team has to have two taggers ....and I believe that the very talented Douglas, Porplyzia, Knights and Vince have to be accomodated.

.......I'm not sure how you accommodate all these and retain Shirley????

I also believe next year we'll be going for midfielders again and that will exasperate the pressure on Shirley.

WW i see where you're coming from and i tend to agree with you - i think that the aim is always to win a premiership

Shirley, Bode etc are good players in their own right as is anyone that can make an AFL list however i question whether we can take the next step

sometimes youngsters when given the opportunity develop a belief and self-confidence which then takes their play to another level but of course they need to play well enough to deserve selection

IMO i think Douglas, Knights, Porplycia have done enough to "demand selection" as somebody previously put it.

the following was a contribution i wrote a long time ago in a different thread but i think it sums up my view:

" i think that we definitely have a show at the flag - just need some luck and good form at the right time

most of our oldies are still performing well, however, the problem i see is that IMO we have too many "2nd tier" players in the age group 26 - 29yo (eg Shirley,Bode,Doughty,Massie,Perrie,Welsh...)
and consequently

- when our oldies leave then we have these "2nd tier" players also around the 30yo mark and IMO they (the "2nd tier") should be departed asap (ie end of Y2007 &Y2008) because they are hindering the development of the next generation many of whom IMO will become 1st tier if given the chance

- IMO we have missed out on a premiership since 1998 even though we had a star studded midfield for various reasons - luck, injury and the lack of support from this 2nd tier group - we had a massive gap between our 1st and 2nd group of players. What concerns me is that when our old 1st tier group retire, this 2nd group will be our senior group (ie the leaders of the club) yet our younger players will no doubt be better players than them. Therefore i believe that this 2nd tier group should be phased out in the next 2 years alongside and even before our older elite players."

 

[Alex99]

Nut just back on topic, I agree with Wayne's World that Porplyzia is in the best 22. Cleanest pair of hands in close, great skills on both sides of the body and his versatility will see him get a spot. Thats assuming that he has improved his aerobic capacity and is ready to spend some regular time in the midfield rather than pinch hit there.

You gave the impression back on post number (12) that you thought Chris Knights might get selected and now you have said that Jason Porplyzia is in our best 22 (I agree with both) but who misses out. That’s where I was when I picked that side, good players and both deserve to get selected but who misses out.

Jason Porplyzia could quite easily come into the side for Mathew Bode as that could be a direct swap and we would not lose anything in the little things.

Chris Knight’s is not going to replace Tyson Edwards or Simon Goodwin (yet) so would he offer more offensive output over a Michael Doughty or Brent Reilly?

Because IMO Robert Shirley and Nathan Van Berlo have specific roles in the side and I cannot see Chris Knights having the ability (or natural game) to fulfil this role?

 

[hey shorty]

This game worries me a little, no doubt they will be better than last year but just how much better ?? If Stevens or any of the KPP are getting beaten, who goes down there ?? Perrie, Bock ?? We should have enough strength in the midfield to cover this and hopefully the forwards fire up and kick a winning score.

 

[Vader]

Let's look at this methodically.

Taking the 2006 Preliminary Final team as the baseline:
Bassett, Biglands, Bock, Bode, Burton, Clarke, Doughty, Edwards, Goodwin, Johncock, Mattner, McLeod, Perrie, Porplyzia, Reilly, Rutten, Shirley, Stevens, Thompson, Torney, Van Berlo, Welsh.

Porplyzia is IN the side, so no need to find a position for him.

Clarke & Biglands are obviously omitted - replaced by Hudson & Griffin.

Personally, I would like to see both Knights & Douglas playing from round one. I believe they are a better prospect long term than many of our "backbone" group and have done enough in the pre-season to justify ("demand") selection.

Judging by what I have read here on BF, Perrie is a long way short of a gallop, so I'd probably replace him with Tippett (at least until Perrie gets some match fitness). Tippett & Perrie may well both play anyway, if Welsh doesn't come up from his bruised heel.

Those I would consider omitting would be: Bode, Doughty, Torney and possibly Mattner (based on his poor pre-season form, albeit due to being played out of position). Shirley has plenty of knockers here on BF, but I simply can't see him being dropped.

Personally, I'd be dumping Doughty as first cab off the rank. I would nominate Torney as the other player to go, but none of the players coming into the side are capable of filling his role (maybe drop him if/when Pfeiffer and/or McIntyre are ready). Really, that only leaves Bode & Mattner looking vulnerable. I'd like to see Mattner returned to his natural home on the wing, with Bode going bye-bye (Needles playing small forward, Knights/Douglas taking his place in the midfield).

So.. my changes are:
IN: Knights, Douglas, Tippett, Griffin, Hudson
OUT: Clarke, Biglands, Perrie, Doughty, Bode

 

[Alex99]

So.. my changes are:
IN: Knights, Douglas, Tippett, Griffin, Hudson
OUT: Clarke, Biglands, Perrie, Doughty, Bode

Big call and all 3 would be in my side as well if we were not so short on key position players. I am a little bit concerned with going in with 3 first gamers (yes Douglas has played 3 games) and Kevin Sheedy and Essendon finding a way of exploiting their inexperience.

I can see this game going one of two ways, either we will blow then out of the water and win by 10 plus goals and the inexperienced part of the selection equations will not be a problem or Essendon will close the game down and sneak home in a close one.

Hence, not having the experience to fall back on.

 

[Jarmayhem]

Let's look at this methodically.

Taking the 2006 Preliminary Final team as the baseline:
Bassett, Biglands, Bock, Bode, Burton, Clarke, Doughty, Edwards, Goodwin, Johncock, Mattner, McLeod, Perrie, Porplyzia, Reilly, Rutten, Shirley, Stevens, Thompson, Torney, Van Berlo, Welsh.

Porplyzia is IN the side, so no need to find a position for him.

Clarke & Biglands are obviously omitted - replaced by Hudson & Griffin.

Personally, I would like to see both Knights & Douglas playing from round one. I believe they are a better prospect long term than many of our "backbone" group and have done enough in the pre-season to justify ("demand") selection.

Judging by what I have read here on BF, Perrie is a long way short of a gallop, so I'd probably replace him with Tippett (at least until Perrie gets some match fitness). Tippett & Perrie may well both play anyway, if Welsh doesn't come up from his bruised heel.

Those I would consider omitting would be: Bode, Doughty, Torney and possibly Mattner (based on his poor pre-season form, albeit due to being played out of position). Shirley has plenty of knockers here on BF, but I simply can't see him being dropped.

Personally, I'd be dumping Doughty as first cab off the rank. I would nominate Torney as the other player to go, but none of the players coming into the side are capable of filling his role (maybe drop him if/when Pfeiffer and/or McIntyre are ready). Really, that only leaves Bode & Mattner looking vulnerable. I'd like to see Mattner returned to his natural home on the wing, with Bode going bye-bye (Needles playing small forward, Knights/Douglas taking his place in the midfield).

So.. my changes are:
IN: Knights, Douglas, Tippett, Griffin, Hudson
OUT: Clarke, Biglands, Perrie, Doughty, Bode

Good post. I like the look of that team.

 

[CrowHop]

Let's look at this methodically.

Taking the 2006 Preliminary Final team as the baseline:
Bassett, Biglands, Bock, Bode, Burton, Clarke, Doughty, Edwards, Goodwin, Johncock, Mattner, McLeod, Perrie, Porplyzia, Reilly, Rutten, Shirley, Stevens, Thompson, Torney, Van Berlo, Welsh.

Porplyzia is IN the side, so no need to find a position for him.

Clarke & Biglands are obviously omitted - replaced by Hudson & Griffin.

Personally, I would like to see both Knights & Douglas playing from round one. I believe they are a better prospect long term than many of our "backbone" group and have done enough in the pre-season to justify ("demand") selection.

Judging by what I have read here on BF, Perrie is a long way short of a gallop, so I'd probably replace him with Tippett (at least until Perrie gets some match fitness). Tippett & Perrie may well both play anyway, if Welsh doesn't come up from his bruised heel.

Those I would consider omitting would be: Bode, Doughty, Torney and possibly Mattner (based on his poor pre-season form, albeit due to being played out of position). Shirley has plenty of knockers here on BF, but I simply can't see him being dropped.

Personally, I'd be dumping Doughty as first cab off the rank. I would nominate Torney as the other player to go, but none of the players coming into the side are capable of filling his role (maybe drop him if/when Pfeiffer and/or McIntyre are ready). Really, that only leaves Bode & Mattner looking vulnerable. I'd like to see Mattner returned to his natural home on the wing, with Bode going bye-bye (Needles playing small forward, Knights/Douglas taking his place in the midfield).

So.. my changes are:
IN: Knights, Douglas, Tippett, Griffin, Hudson
OUT: Clarke, Biglands, Perrie, Doughty, Bode

Pretty good call Vader, although I disagree with the Torney comment.

The ruckmen are obvious, so that pretty much leaves :

In : Knights, Douglas, Tippett
Out : Perrie, Doughty, Bode

or any combination thereof.

For me, Douglas is an easy inclusion for Bode, Tippett for Perrie is a good call considering Perrie's lack of match practice and Knigths in for Doughty is a 50/50 call. Im not sure on that one.

 

[- PC -]

I am a little bit concerned with going in with 3 first gamers (yes Douglas has played 3 games) and Kevin Sheedy and Essendon finding a way of exploiting their inexperience.

You know C98... I think Douglas is one of those players who shows the level headedness of the experienced.

I thought he suffered from 1st game ''omfg I better not get in Roos way'' nerves and then his second game he took a few more chances and the 3rd game he didnt care.. thats what I liked. That tells me he believes he is good enough to be there and that cant be exploited by Sheedy

 

[crows_4_life]

one guy that seems to have been forgotten about and was consistent, but isnt in our best 22 is kris massie

 

[Longy413]

Apologies if this has been done, I haven't read all the way through the thread. But this is how I think we'll match up against this side.

FF: Bode ~ Welsh ~ Burton
M.Johnson - Michael - Lovett-Murray

HF: McLeod ~ Bock ~ Edwards
Slattery - Fletcher - McPhee

C: Reilly ~ Thompson ~ Doughty
Winderlich - Watson - Lovett

HB: Torney ~ Stevens ~ Mattner
Monfries - Lucas - Hird

FB: Bassett ~ Rutten ~ Johncock
Johns - Lloyd - Davey

Ruck: Hudson ~ Goodwin ~ Shirley
Hille - McVeigh - Stanton

Interchange: Griffin ~ Van Berlo ~ Douglas ~ Perrie
Peverill - Dempsey - Welsh - Ryder

Emergency: Knights ~ Porplyzia ~ Tippett
Heffernan - Bradley - Dyson

 

[Alex99]

one guy that seems to have been forgotten about and was consistent, but isnt in our best 22 is kris massie

His exclusion from last Friday nights trial game confirmed to me he would not be considered for round 1. Especially since he is ready to go.

Would he be in our best 22? not sure about that.

 

[crows_4_life]

His exclusion from last Friday nights trial game confirmed to me he would not be considered for round 1. Especially since he is ready to go.

Would he be in our best 22? not sure about that.

no he wouldnt but he seems to have dropped off the radar, its guys like massie and jericho that make you wonder why the club persisted with them in 2007 when clearly they arent in contention for a game

 

[Alex99]

no he wouldnt but he seems to have dropped off the radar, its guys like massie and jericho that make you wonder why the club persisted with them in 2007 when clearly they arent in contention for a game

After pick 60 in the national draft the club may go in with the attitude “better the devil you know, than the one you don’t”

From the 5th round in the national draft it becomes a hit or miss and they already know what Jericho and Massie can do. It’s a much safer option to keep them than go for the unknown.