Preview Round 11 Changes v Collingwood

[wakojako]

We have to bring our A game, and for some strange reason I think we will.
Optus is starting to feel a bit more like the "House of Pain"

For the Freo supporters?

 

[FreoMatt]

If it was 4th quarter (it may have been the 2nd) it would have had to have been the play that led up to O'Meara's first goal from the set shot. It happened near the boundary (opposite side of the ground in TV camera terms), in a contest where the ball spilled free to a Saints player who had protection and Emmett got through to the player in possession and got the ball off him and handballed back inside.

It's hard to interpret score involvements and what they prove. I tallied 116 SI's off the stat page (check as I didn't use a calculator) in a score of 9:18. How many times should a team handle the ball before they get a score?, and then it would also depend on what position from the ground the scoring chain starts from.

Ideally i'd think you'd want less ball handling to give direct play to goals, and we handball a lot which would bump up the number of involvements for each player. And then what if there's a perfect bit of play where everyone does everything right from half-back to half forward and then the delivery inside 50m gets marked or spoiled by a defender, or it gets kicked out of bounds. (i.e. one player from your team or opposition can bugger up a Score Involvement chain and it doesn't go down as a stat)

Emmett's contested possession were 7, better than any other forward in our side, 2nd behind Max King on 8. I don't think he had a great game or anything, but I did think he did some other good things that don't show up on statistics and will more than likely keep his place with Frederick going out.

Yeah the meaning of stats can be difficult to interpret, but over a decent time period the anomalies you suggested should sort themselves out. If we look at average score involvements this year Emmett has the lowest (3.3) of any of the small forwards with Banfield the best (4.5) followed by Freddy, Sonny and then Switter. Probably more importantly for a small forward, Emmett has only had 9 shots on goal all season (again the lowest of this group) and has only kicked 4 goals


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[apuchar]

Interesting. But it looks like Switta played on Sinclair for most of the game( who ripped us apart last time iirc).And nullified most if his influence How do stats measure.that?

 

[stax on the mull]

Yeah the meaning of stats can be difficult to interpret, but over a decent time period the anomalies you suggested should sort themselves out. If we look at average score involvements this year Emmett has the lowest (3.3) of any of the small forwards with Banfield the best (4.5) followed by Freddy, Sonny and then Switter. Probably more importantly for a small forward, Emmett has only had 9 shots on goal all season (again the lowest of this group) and has only kicked 4 goals


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It's a fair point, but Emmett's career sample size is small too. 12 games, including 2 with sub involvement.

 

[Minz]

Walters I can see being a sub for a few weeks, he is off his game but I reckon he has 2-3 more important games this season for the club.

Qualifying final, preliminary final, grand final?

 

[BStaff17]

No player should ever be carried, regardless of previous history. The difference between making the 8 or not making the 8 can be miniscule and you need everything going for you. There is no room for sentiment.

How many players did Malthouse leave of the 2010 premiership that were long-serving players but just missed the window.

I recall there was at least 3 - Lockyer, Fraser, Prestigiacomo.

Sounds harsh but sometimes brutal calls have to be made.

 

[arsesmart]

It's a fair point, but Emmett's career sample size is small too. 12 games, including 2 with sub involvement.

Yes comparing him to players with so more experience is apples and oranges.

 

[arsesmart]

How many players did Malthouse leave of the 2010 premiership that were long-serving players but just missed the window.

I recall there was at least 3 - Lockyer, Fraser, Prestigiacomo.

Sounds harsh but sometimes brutal calls have to be made.

Malthouse? Ancient history there. Nevertheless, I'm sure there are also players in any premiership side that any number of coaches have persevered with even if they might not be at the top of their game.

 

[Joao]

No player should ever be carried, regardless of previous history. The difference between making the 8 or not making the 8 can be miniscule and you need everything going for you. There is no room for sentiment.

Each to their own. Given our next oldest forward is Switta who's played 70 games I am ok with it.

 

[Paracleet]

In each of our last two games he's the player that has been responsible for our early miss from fairly simple straight forward set shots.

My recollection is on both occasions it was around 25 metres out in the right hand pocket but on a 55ish degree angle. That's not a straight foward shot for a right footer and the accuracy charts show that (sub 50%).

 

[Superkoops]

My recollection is on both occasions it was around 25 metres out in the right hand pocket but on a 55ish degree angle. That's not a straight foward shot for a right footer and the accuracy charts show that (sub 50%).

The early one against Sydney was only a very slight angle. Was a terrible miss. Definitely more comfortable being further out. Amiss missed a couple of sitters as well so can’t just have a crack at Voss. I’m more concerned at him not trying to mark with his arms out in front. Wants to Quinten Lynch chest mark every time. There was one late where he had created some separation in the lead but slowed down and went the chesty. Just allowed a simple defensive spoil. Buckley referenced Voss being tired. Whatever I’d rather he try taking the ball with arms extended rather than slowing for chest mark. He can’t be that tired to extend his arms.

He needs to make this adjustment and it starts at training. If he has lost his player up on the wing - no problems but i50 he can’t afford to keep taking chest marks.

 

[DeanS]

Each to their own. Given our next oldest forward is Switta who's played 70 games I am ok with it.

So you would choose players based on their age and games played? Look I've loved Mikey for his whole career but he is an absolute liability at the moment and his age and games played shouldn't come into it.

 

[Lach72]

So you would choose players based on their age and games played? Look I've loved Mikey for his whole career but he is an absolute liability at the moment and his age and games played shouldn't come into it.

Has to go.

Sorry, Michael…your time is up mate.

Delean can come in and do **** all and gain from the experience

 

[Joao]

So you would choose players based on their age and games played? Look I've loved Mikey for his whole career but he is an absolute liability at the moment and his age and games played shouldn't come into it.

Specifically this year and with Walters, yes.

He's not that far off any of the other forwards (probably better than Emmett tbf) and the only player with experience.

He's not keeping any quality out and offers something none of the other players have. He's also a club legend. Easy decision for me.

 

[DragoDelph]

Specifically this year and with Walters, yes.

He's not that far off any of the other forwards (probably better than Emmett tbf) and the only player with experience.

He's not keeping any quality out and offers something none of the other players have. He's also a club legend. Easy decision for me.

This is the key.

Whoever comes in, won't provide more than him.

We're not in development mode.

 

[Joao]

This is the key.

Whoever comes in, won't provide more than him.

We're not in development mode.

100%

It might be different if Simpson or Delean were dominating at Peel. It's really only Sturt playing well but he's behind even Emmett apparently, so I don't like his chances of displacing Sonny.

I think it is possible (likely even) that Sturt would have a greater offensive output, but not sure he brings more overall.

Have my fingers crossed that Sturt finds his way in for Emmett soon.

 

[Lach72]

This is the key.

Whoever comes in, won't provide more than him.

We're not in development mode.

We’re not?

My eyes must be painted on because we’re barely finals capable let alone a premiership

 

[DragoDelph]

We’re not?

My eyes must be painted on because we’re barely finals capable let alone a premiership

The point is, we're not at a stage of gifting games for just getting experience into the young guys.

If they're not going to perform better than the incumbents, they're not going to get picked.

This board lost it after a win. We bring in more kids, who don't perform as well as Walters, JOM, etc. and we lose?

Who comes in to replace Walters? We're already running with an underperforming Emmett because there is no one better.

Sturt has been injured. Delean is currently not performing as well as Collard in the second tier (and we saw how far off Collard is). Simpson doesn't have the strength to go with AFL players yet.

Erasmus is looking likely to replace JOM or Banfield if he can adapt to those roles in the next few weeks.

I'm all for recognising he is well down, that he may need to step aside, but who replaces Walters?

 

[pK75]

100%

It might be different if Simpson or Delean were dominating at Peel. It's really only Sturt playing well but he's behind even Emmett apparently, so I don't like his chances of displacing Sonny.

I think it is possible (likely even) that Sturt would have a greater offensive output, but not sure he brings more overall.

Have my fingers crossed that Sturt finds his way in for Emmett soon.

If Sturt is fit, he’ll get a chance this week with Frederick out of the side, he needs to grasp it both hands and make himself undroppable so Emmett or Walters are dropped when Freddy comes back

 

[The Feeder Club]

Walters and Emmett have been so poor it's illogical to say with a straight face no one would be better. Sometimes it's less about a player in the 2s banging the door down, and more about stopping the torture of badly out of form players getting exposed again. Someone needs to be given the chance to show they could be better.
Sturt, Erasmus. I'd even give Wagner a chance up forward if he can't crack the backline.

 

[MadMundy]

Sturt and Frederick both play the medium forward role so I think Sturt is the most like for like replacement, he obviously doesn't have Frederick's pace but it's essentially the same role.

 

[DragoDelph]

Walters and Emmett have been so poor it's illogical to say with a straight face no one would be better. Sometimes it's less about a player in the 2s banging the door down, and more about stopping the torture of badly out of form players getting exposed again. Someone needs to be given the chance to show they could be better.
Sturt, Erasmus. I'd even give Wagner a chance up forward if he can't crack the backline.

How well did that work for the saints on the weekend? At least 3x of those ins hadn't shown anything in the VFL, were brought in because those they replaced were out of form.

Did not improve the side, will likely be out again this week. Doesn't help the development of the players, or the cohesion of the squad.

Pick players on merit, in the positions they are being developed in.

 

[muckypup]

A bit of passion, flair and accuracy - in.

Overly process oriented boring footy - out.

 

[The Feeder Club]

How well did that work for the saints on the weekend? At least 3x of those ins hadn't shown anything in the VFL, were brought in because those they replaced were out of form.

Did not improve the side, will likely be out again this week. Doesn't help the development of the players, or the cohesion of the squad.

Pick players on merit, in the positions they are being developed in.

Got it, we've kicked 13 goals in our last 8 quarters of football and don't need to try anything different

 

[poshman]

This is the key.

Whoever comes in, won't provide more than him.

We're not in development mode.

We are not in full development mode, but that is still very much a part of what we are.

The fourth youngest team in the league. Babies in our KPF posts. A large portion of our best 12 players haven't played 100 games, many not even 50.

Walters is also in the position where he isn't providing anything and he is making mistakes that cost us.

Another way to look at it is, next year we will be a year further in our development and expectations. Is it better to get games into a Simpson or Delean or both, knowing the output isn't going to much different to Walters. Back Treacy and another to lead the forwards.