Opinion Round 18 Changes vs. GWS

[clogged]

Murphy was the highest ranked Carlton player by the coaches.

 

[Banker]

Lol Suban only does blocking?

Every player has to do this, Suban is only in the team for meters gained and his experience.

Ross picks on experience and that will be his downfall GF if the experienced spuds are not are their very best.

 

[sherrif]

Murphy was the highest ranked Carlton player by the coaches.

Fair point above. Well played. The reality is I actually agree that Suban has his flaws, but clearly he is following instructions well enough to stay in the team. All I was actually trying to do was point out what I think is the coaches perspective to some of the posters who are completely over the top in the level they have a go at players to the point I think they act more like opposition supprters.

 

[Galvo]

De Beor and Suban may not be quite best 22 players but from reports they really put in during the preseason and continue to do so at training.

I have no doubt that it buys them some credit with Ross and they are rewarded while we continue to win. It's about building a sustaining culture that if you put in the effort you'll get rewarded. Their early season form was good enough and I also think with Ross you play your way in/out over multiple games.

Suban was good on the weekend so can't see him getting dropped this week but DeBeor must be close to playing his way out.

Everyone sees the game differently I guess because for me D.Pearce would be first in the gun before both these guys. I don't even get upset with him anymore as he performs the same each time. I cursed Griffin for passing it to him! Kick it yourself or anyone except Pearce!

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Lol Suban only does blocking?

Every player has to do this, Suban is only in the team for meters gained and his experience.

Ross picks on experience and that will be his downfall GF if the experienced spuds are not are their very best.

Who said he only does blocking?

 

[Banker]

Who said he only does blocking?

Sheriff and a couple of others suggested his blocking is elite and his hard body one major reason he is in team.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Sheriff and a couple of others suggested his blocking is elite and his hard body one major reason he is in team.

It is but he did far more than that on the weekend. I think he's working at his peak and won't improve.

The youth so to speak playing for Peel at the moment will IMO be better players than Suban and deBoer however Ross may think they are too much of a risk to play so early and won't develop them at AFL level this year.

I think some of them aren't like for like too.

 

[Clems Knee]

Sheriff and a couple of others suggested his blocking is elite and his hard body one major reason he is in team.

So, nobody.

 

[Cobbler]

We had a guy on our basketball team whose job was to go around and set blocks and when rebounding box out the opposition. He couldn't shoot to save his life except for the odd putback and no one else really takes notes of rebounds or those 1% plays he did. We all knew his worth and he allowed everyone else to get on with their jobs.

Now perhaps this is Suban and those lesser likes jobs, maybe it's not but I will keep saying that the coaching staff and players are far closer to the action then us mere posters.

I want to see some silk or fresh blood. I want to see what the kids have to offer but we have to keep backing the professionals. We are 14-2!

I will say that if you're going to play a Mzungu, DeBoer or Suban as sub then why not a Weller etc, but again I guess it's about honoring next in line and as RTB has stated 'you don't just jump the queue'.

So for me
Out: Suban, DeBoer, Clancee
In: Mzungu, Weller, Langdon

haha jokes!

 

[Scham]

I would say they werent effective at all. Masten regularly gets 27 possessions. No one has said Suban is elite or even close to an elite kick.

More effective than he usually is. Was one of his better games.

 

[tek87]

GWS are a decent side albeit now without Mumford and Shiels so giving players a rest just because of their opposition is dangerous thinking. one loss here and we are back in the firing line. this is our best position we have had since late 3rd quarter of the 2013 grand final. must go full on unless people are injured or very susceptible. I still think our best shot was 2013 but if we can somehow manage this and things fall our way, it would be beyond epic and expectation. if C.Pearce is fit I think his position is still in question given his poor performance on the day but RTB may try to stabilise and build his confidence. Deboer is the player most likely to make way if they feel he needs a full game and dont want to make someone else the sub. Ideally i would like Weller or Blakely to get a full game opportunity with maybe C. Pearce or Deboer as the sub just for interest sake but doubt that will happen

 

[sherrif]

Sheriff and a couple of others suggested his blocking is elite and his hard body one major reason he is in team.

No I said that blocking was part of his role that was underestimated by some here compared to how the coaching panel would view the role he played. It is actually clear at training when they practice clearances that they have set plays when some block and others go for the ball. If you watch clearances it is clear that Sandy has a set place to tap the ball, with one or two players blocking for the targeted player. Blocking is part of Suban's role. That is all I was saying.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

No I said that blocking was part of his role that was underestimated by some here compared to how the coaching panel would view the role he played. It is actually clear at training when they practice clearances that they have set plays when some block and others go for the ball. If you watch clearances it is clear that Sandy has a set place to tap the ball, with one or two players blocking for the targeted player. Blocking is part of Suban's role. That is all I was saying.

You're talking to a brick wall.

By the way Clancee apparently will be playing this weekend. Ross suggested he would on 6pr.

 

[couldhavebeen]

If Clancee is out then Grey would be first my choice replacement .
Grey copped a knock in the Peel game and was limping at the presentations after the match . He landed flat on his back in a marking contest in the last quarter . The doc went out to him and he waved him away even though he was in quite some discomfort .
Now that's how much courage and commitment he has to Peel and Freo.

 

[feds2000]

Alex Pearce should never be dropped from this team. Ever !!! His skills under pressure tonight were sublime

lordy

 

[jedi mind tricks]

If Clancee is out then Grey would be first my choice replacement .
Grey copped a knock in the Peel game and was limping at the presentations after the match . He landed flat on his back in a marking contest in the last quarter . The doc went out to him and he waved him away even though he was in quite some discomfort .
Now that's how much courage and commitment he has to Peel and Freo.

Clancee will play check the 6pr interview

 

[Clems Knee]

Clancee will play check the 6pr interview

Nah, Clancee is in the mix is what Lyon said, I believe. He was pretty ordinary before he got injured. Would be happy to see Grey in his place. Or Duffield (maybe, is one good quarter enough?)

Edit: just read Coulda's report that Grey is sore. It was his back last year. Bugger.

 

[Spoken4]

Nah, Clancee is in the mix. He was pretty ordinary before he got injured. Would be happy to see Gray in there. Or Duffield (maybe, is one good quarter enough?)

Yes to Grey. No to Duffman.

 

[meima]

Yes to Grey. No to Duffman.

Agree , Duffman good kick spaghetti tackle.

 

[Scham]

Clancee will play check the 6pr interview

And Ross is never wrong

 

[Freoforever86]

Nah, Clancee is in the mix is what Lyon said, I believe. He was pretty ordinary before he got injured. Would be happy to see Grey in his place. Or Duffield (maybe, is one good quarter enough?)

Edit: just read Coulda's report that Grey is sore. It was his back last year. Bugger.

Agreed, that dropped uncontested mark in the 2nd that gifted McIntosh a goal was shocking.
Hasn't been good for a few weeks

 

[clogged]

Fair point above. Well played. The reality is I actually agree that Suban has his flaws, but clearly he is following instructions well enough to stay in the team. All I was actually trying to do was point out what I think is the coaches perspective to some of the posters who are completely over the top in the level they have a go at players to the point I think they act more like opposition supprters.

I am well aware of why Suban is in the team, and it is exactly what you say. My issue is that he is not that good at his role, not enough to mask the serious flaws he has as a footballer in general.

Before the Carlton game, Fox Footy highlighted how Hawthorn beat Freo in the clearances. It used two examples.



Both times Freo go in with the two best midfielders (Fyfe and Mundy) and Suban as the defensive mid. Hawthorn go one on one, and the ball spills to Suban vs his opponent. Both times Suban is beaten, first in a hard ball get situation by Shiels, the second beaten to the ball by Puopulo. Neither of those blokes are Hawthorn's best, smartest, or strongest mids. We're not talking about Suban vs Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and losing, which would be fair as they are better players. Suban should at least be able to hold his own against Shiels or Puopulo.

Hawthorn really played it cleverly in both these occasions, with Mitchell making sure Mundy didn't get the ball, and essentially leaving the clearance open to have it come down to a battle between Freo's worst mid (Suban) and one of theirs. It didn't matter who it was - they beat Suban, and the presence of Fyfe and Mundy were nullified.

 

[ydraw]

We're not talking about Suban vs Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and losing, which would be fair as they are better players. Suban should at least be able to hold his own against Shiels or Puopulo.

That's kind of the issue in a nutshell. Shiels is their Suban, but he's a lot better than Suban.

 

[Freoforever86]

I am well aware of why Suban is in the team, and it is exactly what you say. My issue is that he is not that good at his role, not enough to mask the serious flaws he has as a footballer in general.

Before the Carlton game, Fox Footy highlighted how Hawthorn beat Freo in the clearances. It used two examples.



Both times Freo go in with the two best midfielders (Fyfe and Mundy) and Suban as the defensive mid. Hawthorn go one on one, and the ball spills to Suban vs his opponent. Both times Suban is beaten, first in a hard ball get situation by Shiels, the second beaten to the ball by Puopulo. Neither of those blokes are Hawthorn's best, smartest, or strongest mids. We're not talking about Suban vs Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and losing, which would be fair as they are better players. Suban should at least be able to hold his own against Shiels or Puopulo.

Hawthorn really played it cleverly in both these occasions, with Mitchell making sure Mundy didn't get the ball, and essentially leaving the clearance open to have it come down to a battle between Freo's worst mid (Suban) and one of theirs. It didn't matter who it was - they beat Suban, and the presence of Fyfe and Mundy were nullified.

It needs to be Barlow in there rather than Suban. He seemed to be more lately.

 

[electricfeel]

It needs to be Barlow in there rather than Suban. He seemed to be more lately.

Or Lachie Neale. Having Suban in there is essentially resorting back to having Crowley in the centre