Review Round 3, 2023 - Bulldogs vs. Brisbane Lions

[Kernel Kurtz]

bailey has potential to be one of the best in the competition but has looked nowhere near it so far this year. do not know what is going on there

He has been on the cusp for a long time , don't think he has the smarts or hasn't been shown what to do.
Take your pick, to me he could play a great role in a well drilled team,but to me the fact he is a poor tackler is his biggest shortfalling.
Tbh I'm placing the blame on our development and training more than anything.

 

[FeastOrFamine]

To 3 quarter time we transitioned the ball once out of 22 attempts from d50 to forward 50 when the AFL average is over 20%. While defensively we do ok against a terrible forwardline our inability to bring the ball forward out of defence was one of the key reasons we lost

Based on last night. We need Rich

Our kicking was just as vanilla last night as it was with Rich throughout the first two weeks. I seriously doubt his 50m bombs to the wing would've been the difference compared to Wilmot or McKenna's 50m bombs to the wings.

If Rich comes out and proves me wrong - fantastic. We look like a different team when he's on.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Our kicking was just as vanilla last night as it was with Rich throughout the first two weeks. I seriously doubt his 50m bombs to the wing would've been the difference compared to Wilmot or McKenna's 50m bombs to the wings.

If Rich comes out and proves me wrong - fantastic. We look like a different team when he's on.

Gunston was playing like someone who should've retired years ago for the first 2 rounds as well. Zorko played his best game since 2021 in round 2 as well.

Sometimes players are just out of form. At least we know Rich is capable of more unlike most of the players in the 2s

 

[martinson]

The selectors love for Answerth has me completely baffled.

Likewise subbing off Fort was a mistake. Hipwood was a liability. Oscar was getting cooked. Fort was fresh and at least is some chance of marking and goaling.

 

[McIvor]

Can I ask a question.

After the Port game, Fagan came out and said something along the lines that will be the only effort like that for the year - may have been a mulligan given - he also said it was uncharateritic and about 2 or 3 orher things that such efforts were not characteristic of the Lions. I recall in the post threads, that it is exactly who we are and is characteristic.

Fast fwd a fortnight or even a week with that pathetic final 12 minutes and again the spiritless effort and players not playing for one another.

AmI therefore deluded that everything Fagan said after the Port game is just BS and he knows full well that we are charactertic of alot of things he said we werent or is he just lying to himself or blinded b/c he is to close and doesnt want to believe it?

 

[SizeMatters]

To 3 quarter time we transitioned the ball once out of 22 attempts from d50 to forward 50 when the AFL average is over 20%. While defensively we do ok against a terrible forwardline our inability to bring the ball forward out of defence was one of the key reasons we lost

Based on last night. We need Rich

Rich is cooked.
Even if we had the likes of Lappin, and Johnston running off half back our mids and forwards just don't work hard enough top provide options.

extremely simple analysis on your part to say our backline is poor and one cooked bloke is going to improve our defensive transition +500% lol.
It's not our backs fault here, it's everyone else.

No matter how you paint it... it's a coaching issue here. Has been for years and it's embarrassing.

The club is throwing away it's chance at a premiership by cutting costs with no names.

 

[Nathan Barley]

The selectors love for Answerth has me completely baffled.

Likewise subbing off Fort was a mistake. Hipwood was a liability. Oscar was getting cooked. Fort was fresh and at least is some chance of marking and goaling.

Of the 2 rucks Oscar should've been more fresh. Fort was doing the bulk of the rucking with the clear plan to keep Oscar fresh to ruck the last 1 and a bit quarters

Oscar just didn't ruck well

 

[martinson]

Of the 2 rucks Oscar should've been more fresh. Fort was doing the bulk of the rucking with the clear plan to keep Oscar fresh to ruck the last 1 and a bit quarters

Oscar just didn't ruck well

He didn't.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Can I ask a question.

After the Port game, Fagan came out and said something along the lines that will be the only effort like that for the year - may have been a mulligan given - he also said it was uncharateritic and about 2 or 3 orher things that such efforts were not characteristic of the Lions. I recall in the post threads, that it is exactly who we are and is characteristic.

Fast fwd a fortnight or even a week with that pathetic final 12 minutes and again the spiritless effort and players not playing for one another.

AmI therefore deluded that everything Fagan said after the Port game is just BS and he knows full well that we are charactertic of alot of things he said we werent or is he just lying to himself or blinded b/c he is to close and doesnt want to believe it?

Nah the 12 minutes against Melbourne was because we didn't get to warm up for as long as them and last night was apparently a decent effort against a strong team which to me sends the signal he doesn't think we're capable of more than what we've shown in the last 4 years

 

[KissKiss]

Perhaps, I actually miss a bit of good old fashioned discipline and traditional football thinking. There was passage last night where the ball was roosted to our inside 50 and Hipwood, Daniher AND McCarthy all went for the mark effectively spoiling each other. Nobody marks, ball hits the deck and Footscray clear. Simple football smarts says McCarthy stays down, but we are playing with the discipline and intelligence of a bottom 4 side. Finally, we are supposed to have all these running backs and crash hot Midfielders, but I don’t think we attempted to use the corridor on more than a handful of occasions. Fagan is using Leppa’s old playbook that he found in the bottom of a desk draw again, which dictates that you should go sideways at all costs.

We've been doing this for years now. It was worse when Rayner was mostly forward as he too loved to fly for marks. We have too many forwards who want the glory of the big mark but dont seem smart enough to either give space or know when to front and centre. Hell one of the few guys who would constantly end up front and centre was Fullerton. Our forward leading patterns have been a mess for some time.

He has been on the cusp for a long time , don't think he has the smarts or hasn't been shown what to do.
Take your pick, to me he could play a great role in a well drilled team,but to me the fact he is a poor tackler is his biggest shortfalling.
Tbh I'm placing the blame on our development and training more than anything.

I dont know why but we suck at teaching our smalls how to tackle. From Lewy Taylor to McCluggage to Bailey and so on. They all seem to get brushed off way too easily. Other teams have lightening smalls who thrive off running down tackles and pressure. We seem to have no idea how to develop this sort of player

 

[Nathan Barley]

He didn't.

I just noticed start of the 2nd and third quarters Fort took the centre bench which made me think the plan was to sub him

 

[KissKiss]

Can I ask a question.

After the Port game, Fagan came out and said something along the lines that will be the only effort like that for the year - may have been a mulligan given - he also said it was uncharateritic and about 2 or 3 orher things that such efforts were not characteristic of the Lions. I recall in the post threads, that it is exactly who we are and is characteristic.

Fast fwd a fortnight or even a week with that pathetic final 12 minutes and again the spiritless effort and players not playing for one another.

AmI therefore deluded that everything Fagan said after the Port game is just BS and he knows full well that we are charactertic of alot of things he said we werent or is he just lying to himself or blinded b/c he is to close and doesnt want to believe it?

He said it several times last year as well. Uncharacteristic or mulligan. I dont expect much from Coaches press conferences (its all bland nothing statements) but really the media should really be calling him out on it. Same old comments from Fagan with no changes

 

[martinson]

I just noticed start of the 2nd and third quarters Fort took the centre bench which made me think the plan was to sub him

It was likely the plan but they should have torn the plan up when they saw how Hipwood was going.

And why Answerth as sub if you're planning to bring someone on ??? Ah Chee ,Lyons or Dev might've added something.

 

[martinson]

He said it several times last year as well. Uncharacteristic or mulligan. I dont expect much from Coaches press conferences (its all bland nothing statements) but really the media should really be calling him out on it. Same old comments from Fagan with no changes

They're actually terrified of him. He looked like he'd explode if he got a contentious question.

 

[Nathan Barley]

It was likely the plan but they should have torn the plan up when they saw how Hipwood was going.

And why Answerth as sub if you're planning to bring someone on ??? Ah Chee ,Lyons or Dev might've added something.

Ah Chee and Dev have been the sub many times and done bugger all after coming on.

The sub rarely does much

 

[martinson]

Ah Chee and Dev have been the sub many times and done bugger all after coming on.

The sub rarely does much

That's generally true. But if they had a plan to sub Fort off then obviously the sub was intended to play a role in this match.

Can't see what role you would get Answerth to play .He seemed to be running around down forward for a time. Just to add to what was happening down there.

 

[notliondown]

On reflection I think our effort and work rate wasn't terrible last night. It was a scrappy contested game, played mainly one on one and by nature they're not great games.

But I can't stop replaying stupid decisions by our players over and over.

Joes kick. Bailey's tackle. Linc's ridiculous attempts at marks and tackles that then take him out of the play. Players keeping the ball alive 10m from goal 30cm from the boundary line. Overhead blind passes. Hugh throwing it on the boot over and over on the boundary line under pressure. Eric spoiling over and over. Blind dump kicks out of congestion. Every player in an area getting sucked into contests.

There's something odd in our style. We either play on at all costs in some really crazy situations... or we slow it to a crawl and go down the line over and over.

We just don't know how to wrestle control of a game. To get it on our terms. To be smart in how we maintain possession.

And while I am seriously questioning the coaching, surely, surely by now we have enough experienced players - definitely enough leaders - for them to be able to recognize and deal with these things automatically???

We've struggled with this for years... surely we have addressed it? Surely we have tried to educate the players and give them tools? Why can we not recognise changes in tempo or adjust our play????

 

[notliondown]

He said it several times last year as well. Uncharacteristic or mulligan. I dont expect much from Coaches press conferences (its all bland nothing statements) but really the media should really be calling him out on it. Same old comments from Fagan with no changes

Honestly, there's not too many things a coach can say publicly that are AFL approved and digestible for corporates and supporters who want to see either something positive at best or not controversial at worst about their team. It's a situation where diplomacy is key and while I crave to see Fages lose his mind after these games there is zero benefit of doing publicly at any level so I doubt he ever will bar a complete melt down.

 

[McIvor]

Was interested to look into who was out of contract - end of this year - in the thread well maintained by dlanod to see who is playing for their career and it smacked b/w the eyes that no wonder we dish up what we do when we have so many comfortable players.

Not saying all these guys should play but it makes for interesting reading:

Playing Reserves - Lohmann, Robertson, Ah Chee, Cockatoo, B Coleman, Madden, Fullarton, Sharp, Brain, Lester, Mathieson, McDowell-White
Injured / Inactive - Rich, Adams, Michael
Played last night - Zorko, McKenna, Joyce

Seeing that, I dare say the likes of Roberston, Ah Chee and even Mathieson would put in ten times as much as a lot of the guys protected by comfortable contracts. Some might say that it doesnt matter, but i think in world sport, players playing for their next contract brings out more than it probably should.

 

[martinson]

On reflection I think our effort and work rate wasn't terrible last night. It was a scrappy contested game, played mainly one on one and by nature they're not great games.

But I can't stop replaying stupid decisions by our players over and over.

Joes kick. Bailey's tackle. Linc's ridiculous attempts at marks and tackles that then take him out of the play. Players keeping the ball alive 10m from goal 30cm from the boundary line. Overhead blind passes. Hugh throwing it on the boot over and over on the boundary line under pressure. Eric spoiling over and over. Blind dump kicks out of congestion. Every player in an area getting sucked into contests.

There's something odd in our style. We either play on at all costs in some really crazy situations... or we slow it to a crawl and go down the line over and over.

We just don't know how to wrestle control of a game. To get it on our terms. To be smart in how we maintain possession.

And while I am seriously questioning the coaching, surely, surely by now we have enough experienced players - definitely enough leaders - for them to be able to recognize and deal with these things automatically???

We've struggled with this for years... surely we have addressed it? Surely we have tried to educate the players and give them tools? Why can we not recognise changes in tempo or adjust our play????

A lot of that's true.

Whilst we think we have the players and the experience etc one thing we might have to contend with is that we're not quite good enough. It's possible. The features you raise are things that good players deal with automatically. Some guys never get it.

 

[Nathan Barley]

That's generally true. But if they had a plan to sub Fort off then obviously the sub was intended to play a role in this match.

Can't see what role you would get Answerth to play .He seemed to be running around down forward for a time. Just to add to what was happening down there.

Yeah it was weird to play him forward

Credit to him though he provided a spark. That going back with the flight spoil that should've led to Joe passing to Charlie was inspirational and could've been a gamechanging moment if Joe had half a brain

 

[McIvor]

Honestly, there's not too many things a coach can say publicly that are AFL approved and digestible for corporates and supporters who want to see either something positive at best or not controversial at worst about their team. It's a situation where diplomacy is key and while I crave to see Fages lose his mind after these games there is zero benefit of doing publicly at any level so I doubt he ever will bar a complete melt down.

I would like to see more AFL coaches like that Spurs coach that lost his crap - Conti - and was then sacked a week or so later probably was to honest for the owners - but at least you got the complete truth.

 

[martinson]

Yeah it was weird to play him forward

Credit to him though he provided a spark. That going back with the flight spoil that should've led to Joe passing to Charlie was inspirational and could've been a gamechanging moment if Joe had half a brain

Joe looked and saw Charlie and decided he'd kick it.

Only missed by 3m.

 

[notliondown]

A lot of that's true.

Whilst we think we have the players and the experience etc one thing we might have to contend with is that we're not quite good enough. It's possible. The features you raise are things that good players deal with automatically. Some guys never get it.

I can't help but wonder if we are paying the price for the early years of "use your weapon" and play on instinct that we used to get the best out of a team of young players.

I wonder if it's become so ingrained it's hard to break the habit.

 

[Jim Stynes11]

Yeah it was weird to play him forward

Credit to him though he provided a spark. That going back with the flight spoil that should've led to Joe passing to Charlie was inspirational and could've been a gamechanging moment if Joe had half a brain

I thought one of our issues last night was lack of a crumbing forward. There were numerous times when Hipwood managed to get the ball to ground, but as he's getting up from the ground, one or two of our small forwards are also picking themselves up.
I've often seen it discussed as a positive that so many of our forwards play tall, can take a mark etc but the ball gets to ground at the front of the pack, and 3 bulldogs players walk away with it