Review Round 3, 2024 - Brisbane Lions vs. Collingwood

[Nathan Barley]

The think with dropping established players are their replacements will most likely play worse than them next week. This then flows on to the team playing worse and the rest of the team having more difficulty finding form and confidence

So it's a tricky situation

Look at Collingwood. They drop Sidebottom and then WHE spuds it up in his place

 

[royboys4eva]

The think with dropping established players are their replacements will most likely play worse than them next week. This then flows on to the team playing worse and the rest of the team having more difficulty finding form and confidence

So it's a tricky situation

Look at Collingwood. They drop Sidebottom and then WHE spuds it up in his place

They made Crisp as Sub - bring him on with 45 mins to go and he dominates.

 

[tate13]

I don’t think Fagan is the problem, BUT at the same time a new coach with the right list might unlock something.

Look at Collingwood - I don’t think Buckley was a bad coach at all to be honest. But things were stagnating, and when McRae came in it was an immediate boost both in player effort, and the change in strategy worked for them too.

That seems ridiculously harsh on a bloke that was less than a kick away from a premiership… 4 games ago! and has won more games than any other side over the past 5 years.
This is our first real drop off (if it keeps going this way) - that’s an amazing record over those years.
Everyone is so quick to criticise the coach, but is there a possibility that he’s actually got the best out of the group? It’s a question nobody can answer.
But with a young profile and 2 ashcrofts to come into that midfield, there’s really not a compelling case to move the coach this season. You’d want to see how things go next season before that.

Buckley wasn’t sacked the year after the 2018 gf, the side continued to slide and they had a generational inclusion (Daicos - see Ashcrofts) that he never got to coach.

Historically, sides that make a rash call on a coach regularly, aren’t successful and lose players.

I understand emotional reaction, but given his record, he’s earned the right to turn this around.

 

[rye]

That seems ridiculously harsh on a bloke that was less than a kick away from a premiership… 4 games ago! and has won more games than any other side over the past 5 years.
This is our first real drop off (if it keeps going this way) - that’s an amazing record over those years.
Everyone is so quick to criticise the coach, but is there a possibility that he’s actually got the best out of the group? It’s a question nobody can answer.
But with a young profile and 2 ashcrofts to come into that midfield, there’s really not a compelling case to move the coach this season. You’d want to see how things go next season before that.

Buckley wasn’t sacked the year after the 2018 gf, the side continued to slide and they had a generational inclusion (Daicos - see Ashcrofts) that he never got to coach.

Historically, sides that make a rash call on a coach regularly, aren’t successful and lose players.

I understand emotional reaction, but given his record, he’s earned the right to turn this around.

i think the difference with fagan is the age factor

how much longer is it reasonable to expect him to coach for?

 

[Nathan Barley]

They make Crisp as Sub - bring him on with 45 mins to go and he dominates.

Yeah I wish we had the midfield depth to be able to do that

Did you notice who he replaced though? McRae who had been the sub and spudded it up

 

[Section 5]

I’m surprised more people aren’t a bit more positive after last night. It really came down to finishing. We had so many more opportunities than the pies and kept them scoreless for a quarter.

It was a better effort than the first two games but only just.
No converting opportunities is still not great football. Similar to the first 2 games.
Yes, we kept them scoreless, but they held us to just 8 points the next quarter.

Similar to the Blues game we dominated in the first with 7 goals to 2.
Then they kicked 7 goals to our 1 in the 3rd
In the Dockers game we only managed 2 points in the 2nd quarter and 8 points in the 3rd.
You are not going to win many games of footy with that inconsistency.

We are not a side noted for thrashing the opposition but i feel we need to belt North for 4 quarters to get some confidence back.

Then part of me just hopes we get the 4 points no matter the margin with no injuries.

 

[bungalow_bill]

That seems ridiculously harsh on a bloke that was less than a kick away from a premiership… 4 games ago! and has won more games than any other side over the past 5 years.
This is our first real drop off (if it keeps going this way) - that’s an amazing record over those years.
Everyone is so quick to criticise the coach, but is there a possibility that he’s actually got the best out of the group? It’s a question nobody can answer.
But with a young profile and 2 ashcrofts to come into that midfield, there’s really not a compelling case to move the coach this season. You’d want to see how things go next season before that.

Buckley wasn’t sacked the year after the 2018 gf, the side continued to slide and they had a generational inclusion (Daicos - see Ashcrofts) that he never got to coach.

Historically, sides that make a rash call on a coach regularly, aren’t successful and lose players.

I understand emotional reaction, but given his record, he’s earned the right to turn this around.

Sam Marshall is looking very good too. The sort of hard running mid that would nicely complement the two Ashcroft's

 

[Sanchez365]

I don’t see that he gets done as frequently as people say. Respectfully, the Lyons gets torched narrative is a bit like the Lester can’t run and Lester doesn’t intercept narrative we used to hear when he was being overlooked. It doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

If we play Lyons as a pure mid, we put the runners around him. Bailey and Dunkley are supposed to be quick, but they are too often out bodied and then standing flat footed watching opponents run the ball out of the middle. The idea with Lyons is that he is more likely to win the contest than Bailey ever will or Dunkley currently does.

Footnote: Lester was Equal 3rd for Intercept Possessions last night with 6, behind Zorko 9 and Andrews 7.

There are countless examples of Lyons not being able to chase and having his man run off him. He also exaggerates one of our biggest weaknesses in midfield defensive transition. That said he's not obviously alone in this category right now, and our forward pressure last night was abysmal

To be honest I'm more or less at a loss strategically of what I would do in the box. Ironically it feels like we need an injection of less talented players that will bust a gut so our stars can play like primadonnas. Or just some blistering pace to cover our poor defensive transition.

It seems teams plans against us is to just completely congest our forward line so our dynamic forwards have no space to work in. We seemed to play to counter that by adding a plethora of kicking half backs to pick their way through it (Coleman, Doedee, McKenna, Wilmot). Now with three of those guys out, it seemed like all our defenders kept looking for that decent kick inside 50 to take that last possession, and the chain ended up (most of the time) with an Answerth, Starch, Payne, Lester or Andrews.

It just feels like a real back to the drawing board moment for the coaches and we just HAD a bye to do a mini reset which produced "focus on contested clearance game" which I just don't think will cut it this year.

 

[3KZ is Football]

There are countless examples of Lyons not being able to chase and having his man run off him. He also exaggerates one of our biggest weaknesses in midfield defensive transition. That said he's not obviously alone in this category right now, and our forward pressure last night was abysmal

To be honest I'm more or less at a loss strategically of what I would do in the box. Ironically it feels like we need an injection of less talented players that will bust a gut so our stars can play like primadonnas. Or just some blistering pace to cover our poor defensive transition.

It seems teams plans against us is to just completely congest our forward line so our dynamic forwards have no space to work in. We seemed to play to counter that by adding a plethora of kicking half backs to pick their way through it (Coleman, Doedee, McKenna, Wilmot). Now with three of those guys out, it seemed like all our defenders kept looking for that decent kick inside 50 to take that last possession, and the chain ended up (most of the time) with an Answerth, Starch, Payne, Lester or Andrews.

It just feels like a real back to the drawing board moment for the coaches and we just HAD a bye to do a mini reset which produced "focus on contested clearance game" which I just don't think will cut it this year.

One thing we need to do is ‘something different’ which isn’t Fagan’s strong suit.

 

[McIvor]

The think with dropping established players are their replacements will most likely play worse than them next week. This then flows on to the team playing worse and the rest of the team having more difficulty finding form and confidence

So it's a tricky situation

Look at Collingwood. They drop Sidebottom and then WHE spuds it up in his place

How can you say that when Fagan has never tried or your one example about WHE is your evidence?

 

[Pacman82]

I don’t know what was going on last night but there were quite a few times where we had some quick ball movement, took a mark about 70m out and could’ve turned and got it in quick to one on ones (Charlie etc), but for reasons unknown we hesitated and waited for them to get numbers (particularly Moore) back to kill the ball.

Slow ball movement just kills you in the modern game.

Yep & it was the same against the Blues, we had ample opportunity to go forward in the last few mins and score anything to even just level the game for a draw. The final kick forward was constantly stalled resulting in mass congestion, it should also be said that our forwards have been stagnant, flat footed and not getting to good spots or giving decent leads.

 

[rye]

How can you say that when Fagan has never tried or your one example about WHE is your evidence?

the pretty obvious counterpoint to this is we dropped both rich and gunston last year. rich in particular having been a b22 player for over a decade.

payne dropped for gardiner in the finals last year too.

why do you keep making this point across multiple threads on this forum when there is an example that disproves it within the last 12 months?

 

[Nathan Barley]

How can you say that when Fagan has never tried or your one example about WHE is your evidence?

Because I watch VFL and see the lack of depth we have.

Talk about dropping Berry for guys like Prior and Sharp who have been very average in the seniors and don’t show the improvement in the 2s to indicate he has more to show in the seniors

 

[Pacman82]

Our problem's clearly the lack of connection with the ball going into the forward line. Kicking it to Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

29

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

when he's out matched for height in a one on one contest has been a constant theme recently too. The up & down form of individual players is always going to be a factor unfortunately, it's some of the systems in place that need a massive shake up.

 

[alscotoz2]

I can't accept the contention that our guys weren't giving it everything tonight.

We "won" nearly all the stats, including Inside 50's but again, blew many scoring opportunities with wayward kicking on goal

However, collectively the team is just out of form and looks down on confidence.

Daniher and Hipwood looked like they had hands made of concrete, although there was interference several times in marking contests that the umps chose to ignore. There was one instance in the last quarter where Hipwood was in the process of attempting to control a juggling mark but got a blatant shove in the back so had no opportunity to do so. Play on?

I thought the umpiring sucked overall.

From 14-all free kicks at half time, the Pies got 16-6 in the second half. How many HTB frees did they pluck to Collingwood in that second half?.....it just seemed like one way traffic. Stacks on the mill and a Lions player on the bottom of the pack......free kick Collingwood.

That said, we were our own worst enemies and probably got what we deserved in the end.

One last thing....can the Rayner haters please give it a break? I thought he was bloody good tonight, as was Lester who never seems to get flustered in tight situations, has great anticipation and spatial awareness AND gets a bad wrap for being "slow" when he actually shows decent pace when he has too.

I'm depressed as anyone else here but the constant carping and negativity just makes it worse.

And for Chrissakes, can we give the "Sack Fagan" thing a rest too. That man has taken us from a total rabble to a serious football team. It seems ro me that we need to look at the bigger picture instead of looking for scapegoats every time we have a loss.

0-3 is a terrible start but it's a long season and I'm not prepared to write us of at this early point.

Get a win on the board next week and things can turn around pretty quickly.

Who was that guy that said "Things are never as good or bad as they seem"?

It seems to me that people who are looking at the bigger picture realise that to grow as a team, Fagan has to go.

 

[martinson]

Coleman's ACL has been a disaster for the team.

But for 5 seconds less on the half time clock in that game we win against Carlton and probably win again last night

Then Doedee on top of it. He must be completely crestfallen at the moment so you have to feel for him. 3 recos is getting up there , I'll tip my hat to him if he makes it back.

No wonder Fages is looking frazzled with the Hawthorn mediation saga in the middle of it .

 

[alscotoz2]

That was a gamble that paid off

They made Crisp as Sub - bring him on with 45 mins to go and he dominates.

 

[Shai]

Charlie, Daniher & Hipwood need to stop playing behind their man trying to take speccies and offer our mids a lead.

None of the above offered any viable options, they were simply outplayed.

 

[Steeleyourself]

That's cute. We're still 2-1 against the Pies in grand finals though so at least we have the variety of two games to watch.

Absolutely PotY contention, sorry for lurking but I felt this sting in real-time, in case you wanted to know how brutal this was.

 

[Shai]

Interesting to myself at least, I posted regarding the breach issued by a Collingwood supporting mod against myself, it is now invisible?

Said Mod then closes any response

 

[Elixuh]

Interesting to myself at least, I posted regarding the breach issued by a Collingwood supporting mod against myself, it is now invisible?

Said Mod then closes any response

Bro you're on the Brisbane Lions board. Is everything ok. Blink twice if you need help.

 

[Shai]

Bro you're on the Brisbane Lions board. Is everything ok. Blink twice if you need help.

Maybe you should follow your own advice, this is not the Lions board.

 

[Elixuh]

Maybe you should follow your own advice, this is not the Lions board.

You took the drugs in the wrong order friend.

 

[Nuggo]

Begs the question, who's board is it?

 

[Shai]

You took the drugs in the wrong order friend.

Yeah very amusing, address the problems instead of addressing the negative posts.