The Law Royal Commission into Child Abuse

[chelseacarlton]

I dropped in to contribute my own personal recollections of George Pell and working as an altar boy with him.

Here's how much I care.

They love victims. They need victims. But only as long as the victims qualify as the right sort of victims. The rest can get stuffed as far as they are concerned.

The first statement.
Empty as a short piece of pvc.
The second.
You don't.
The third.
Like an old tree hollowed out by time,rodents and rot.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Kristine Kenneally had a go at Pell for doing nothing. She was Premier when one of her Ministers was grooming boys. A staffer complained and was fired. The Minister got 8 years, the staffer received a massive unfair dismissal payout. Kenneally claimed she knew nothing.

This wasnt 40 years ago in a time when everyone buried their head in the sand. It was 10 years ago.

Protecting grubs or turning a blind eye happens everywhere.

For some reason Pell is the focal point for all the blame.

which minister was that?

 

[HairyO]

which minister was that?

Milton Orkopoulos. Protected by NSW Labor for years and when people complained about him they were sacked and blacklisted.

Kenneally wasnt Premier at the time (was a Minister though) but in the aftermath knew all about how people were being treated - yet has the gall to go after Pell for things which happened when he was a junior priest.

BruceFromBallnarring has a good write up on Page 56 which covers it in good detail.

 

[Pie eyed]

Milton Orkopoulos. Protected by NSW Labor for years and when people complained about him they were sacked and blacklisted.

Kenneally wasnt Premier at the time (was a Minister though) but in the aftermath knew all about how people were being treated - yet has the gall to go after Pell for things which happened when he was a junior priest.

BruceFromBallnarring has a good write up on Page 56 which covers it in good detail.

If she committed any illegality in the course of the affair prosecute her.
None of this of curse admonishes Pell from his inaction before Kenneally even had anything to do with politics.

 

[HairyO]

If she committed any illegality in the course of the affair prosecute her.
None of this of curse admonishes Pell from his inaction before Kenneally even had anything to do with politics.

So Pell is condemned even though there is zero evidence he broke the law but Kenneally is okay because she didnt break the law?

Deliberately punishing a whistleblower who outed a kiddie fiddler who was being protected by his party is ok. But only if its not the Catholic Church doing it?

Seems to be a double standard but thats not new.

 

[Pie eyed]

Pell oversaw the greatest crime the Catholic church ever committed in this country in various positions of power right to the top and is cossetted away, protected, for that exact purpose, while fiddling the books for Vatican.
At very best he was and is grossly inadequate in the positions he has held and at worst he was complicit in the sexual abuse of children.
There is no way around that.
While it's yet to be seen if there is the necessary evidence to lay any charges against Pell there is no doubt he oversaw the Church in senior positions during every stage of the Ballarat, Victorian and now National disgrace the Church finds itself in, that he has personally been implicated by several claimants in both distant and more recent allegations of sexual abuse, no doubt received a very favorable judgement (in the words of the retired Judge responsible for said judgement) by a Catholic Church run and instigated inquiry into the very early allegations and is now the focus of a Victoria Police investigation into more recent allegations.

You seem to think my NOT defending Kenneally somehow admonishes Pell?

Only the rusted on remnants of the Catholic old guard could possibly hold the ridiculous position you do.
You obfuscate solely to hide your deep loyalty to the indefensible animals you feel obliged to remain faithful to.
You are an embarrassment and unworthy of pity.
There is a place for you and other defenders of the ilk of Pell in the Hell you so willingly bear witness to.
Go rot there.
Less than dogs your lot.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

So Pell is condemned even though there is zero evidence he broke the law but Kenneally is okay because she didnt break the law?

Deliberately punishing a whistleblower who outed a kiddie fiddler who was being protected by his party is ok. But only if its not the Catholic Church doing it?

Seems to be a double standard but thats not new.

Neither case is OK, there both scum and in both cases, the campaigners conveniently have been protected well enough by being underhanded dog's that have the backing of powerful political bodies to protect them for years and because of that we know little about the full extent of what they did and there is no evidence available to convict them of any crimes.

the fact that you think one campaigner protecting child rapists somehow one ups another is ****ing disgraceful.
Pell is rightly condemned because he's a ****ing maggot.

If keneally was protecting a child rapist she should be investigated, she should be fronting the royal commission. But make no mistake in no way does this diminish the fact pell's a piece shit who not only protected his rapist mate, but continually allowed him to be left him alone with vulnerable children full well knowing the campaigner raped kids.

cut this dog whistle bullshit, this is not a witch hunt against catholics, do you want me to YET AGAIN list the organisations exposed by the royal commision over raping kids?

the simple truth is you never paid any attention or gave two shits about royal commision until Cardinal George Pell Prefect for the Secretariat of the economy of the Roman Catholic Church was exposed as the campaigner he truly is.

 

[CM86]

Amazing how many people joined this thread to talk about child abuse in other areas, when Pell was in the spotlight.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Kenneally wasnt Premier at the time (was a Minister though) but in the aftermath knew all about how people were being treated - yet has the gall to go after Pell for things which happened when he was a junior priest.

Orkopoulos was dismissed as a Minister in November 2006
Keneally became a Minister in 2008.

 

[HairyO]

Orkopoulos was dismissed as a Minister in November 2006
Keneally became a Minister in 2008.

The unfair dismissal case with the whistleblower went until 2012. Labor spent years undermining her and punishing her for daring to break ranks.

 

[chelseacarlton]

The unfair dismissal case with the whistleblower went until 2012. Labor spent years undermining her and punishing her for daring to break ranks.

Well,that's good enough for me then.
George Pell knew nothing.
Phew.

 

[HairyO]

Well,that's good enough for me then.
George Pell knew nothing.
Phew.

Or maybe Pell knew and Kenneally knew and rather than the rage of the entire nation being focussed on one person who did nothing 40 years - at a time when noone did anything, we also worry about more recent events.

Maybe even abuses happening now.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

The unfair dismissal case with the whistleblower went until 2012. Labor spent years undermining her and punishing her for daring to break ranks.

Was't she awarded damages in 2011?
What specifically did Keneally do?

 

[HairyO]

Was't she awarded damages in 2011?
What specifically did Keneally do?

Led a party that actively demonised a whistleblower who outed a pedophile. Only a few years ago.

What specifically did Pell do?

This RC is focussing on events from 40 years ago. Does this mean there is nothing recent because change has already happened? What then is the outcome? Pell wont be charged. The Church has already changed.

Why not focus on abuse and violence happening in Aboriginal communities right now. Then maybe 9 year old girls wont be taken off loving white foster families and returned to their Aboriginal family to be raped. Maybe 10 year old girls wont be committing suicide.

Why is 40 years ago more important than right now?

 

[CM86]

Led a party that actively demonised a whistleblower who outed a pedophile. Only a few years ago.

What specifically did Pell do?

This RC is focussing on events from 40 years ago. Does this mean there is nothing recent because change has already happened? What then is the outcome? Pell wont be charged. The Church has already changed.

Why not focus on abuse and violence happening in Aboriginal communities right now. Then maybe 9 year old girls wont be taken off loving white foster families and returned to their Aboriginal family to be raped. Maybe 10 year old girls wont be committing suicide.

Why is 40 years ago more important than right now?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Don't think it's black and white... even though you literally seem to be making it so...

White foster home vs Aboriginal family?...

 

[Lebbo73]

Led a party that actively demonised a whistleblower who outed a pedophile. Only a few years ago.

What specifically did Pell do?

This RC is focussing on events from 40 years ago. Does this mean there is nothing recent because change has already happened? What then is the outcome? Pell wont be charged. The Church has already changed.

Why not focus on abuse and violence happening in Aboriginal communities right now. Then maybe 9 year old girls wont be taken off loving white foster families and returned to their Aboriginal family to be raped. Maybe 10 year old girls wont be committing suicide.

Why is 40 years ago more important than right now?

They did concentrate on Aborigines last century and we had the Stolen Generation. Yes, some were treated badly but most of them were removed for their own safety and wellbeing!

 

[HairyO]

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Don't think it's black and white... even though you literally seem to be making it so...

White foster home vs Aboriginal family?...

I agree it shouldnt be one or the other. But my concern is about stopping things happening now as a priority. Certainly victims need to be heard, but the goal of a Royal Commission is to provide a report to government to bring about structural change. Given the focus is on events from 40 years ago and hardly any focus on anything recent, I think we can assume that change already happened. So is this RC just a very expensive grievance process?

Here is the case I was talking about: http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s2116028.htm

Raped regularly by her family, removed for her safety, given to a loving family where she was happy and safe and fitting in well, then a crusader decided its racist to place Aboriginal kids with white families so she was returned to her family so they could start raping her again.

We dont know all the facts about this 10 year old girl who committed suicide but her older sister recently committed suicide as well. Im pretty sure 10 is the youngest suicide in the history of the country. Will there be any change? Or will we continue to tip-toe around Aboriginal communities where violence and abuse are common - because it would be racist to stop it?

Here is another: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/a...onindigenous-foster-carer-20130219-2eorg.html

Im sure there are plenty. We seem to be happy with Aboriginal kids being abused by Aborigines as a preference to placing them with loving and caring white families.

Where is the Royal Commission for this?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Or maybe Pell knew and Kenneally knew and rather than the rage of the entire nation being focussed on one person who did nothing 40 years - at a time when noone did anything, we also worry about more recent events.

Maybe even abuses happening now.

That reads like a fox chasing its tail whilst running from the tally-ho brigade.
They are all ****ed no matter what religion or political persuasion.
Stop being a right wing Catholic apologist like brucefrombalnarring,it's tiresome.

 

[Maggie5]

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Don't think it's black and white... even though you literally seem to be making it so...

White foster home vs Aboriginal family?...

Don't let them distract you, this RC is about Institutional Response to Child abuse not individuals who have offended. It is about how they protected the the institution and not the children.
How many times was the politician moved around portfolio to portfolio,
Didn't see them in here when it was other religious organisations that were being discussed.

 

[HairyO]

That reads like a fox chasing its tail whilst running from the tally-ho brigade.
They are all stuffed no matter what religion or political persuasion.
Stop being a right wing Catholic apologist like brucefrombalnarring,it's tiresome.

Yes, because if your goal is to focus on stopping current abuse then there is clearly something wrong with you. You should be joining the witch hunt over events from 40 years ago.

That's the real issue to worry about.

And if we can successfully gloss over the ALP and their long history of paedophiles rising to high ranks then that is very good.

If you include those who commit suicide before being gaoled, there would be more than a dozen, wouldnt there?

 

[GeneralSoreness]

Yes, because if your goal is to focus on stopping current abuse then there is clearly something wrong with you. You should be joining the witch hunt over events from 40 years ago.

That's the real issue to worry about.

And if we can successfully gloss over the ALP and their long history of paedophiles rising to high ranks then that is very good.

If you include those who commit suicide before being gaoled, there would be more than a dozen, wouldnt there?

Well Played Old Man - we all know the questionable morality of the ALP - they even have *gasp* a lesbian in their midst - they are not good family values people like the entire front bench of the Liberal Party. Upstanding individuals every one

 

[CM86]

I agree it shouldnt be one or the other. But my concern is about stopping things happening now as a priority. Certainly victims need to be heard, but the goal of a Royal Commission is to provide a report to government to bring about structural change. Given the focus is on events from 40 years ago and hardly any focus on anything recent, I think we can assume that change already happened. So is this RC just a very expensive grievance process?

Here is the case I was talking about: http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s2116028.htm

Raped regularly by her family, removed for her safety, given to a loving family where she was happy and safe and fitting in well, then a crusader decided its racist to place Aboriginal kids with white families so she was returned to her family so they could start raping her again.

We dont know all the facts about this 10 year old girl who committed suicide but her older sister recently committed suicide as well. Im pretty sure 10 is the youngest suicide in the history of the country. Will there be any change? Or will we continue to tip-toe around Aboriginal communities where violence and abuse are common - because it would be racist to stop it?

Here is another: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/a...onindigenous-foster-carer-20130219-2eorg.html

Im sure there are plenty. We seem to be happy with Aboriginal kids being abused by Aborigines as a preference to placing them with loving and caring white families.

Where is the Royal Commission for this?

Yeah... I'm not going to get into a debate with on you on Aboriginal families vs white families.



And this RC isn't "an expensive grievance process"... what the hell is wrong with you?
Why don't you tell the victims that it doesn't matter, because it happened to them 40 years ago...
The posters in this thread who have talked about their harrowing experience.
Tell the people that it still happens to, that it does't matter, because it was 40 years ago, and it's all better now.

If the ALP have been hiding and promoting pedophiles, then **** them. Lock them up.
But it doesn't take away from what other people have done...

You're the one defending it... Saying it was a different time... and it was different socially... and it was so long ago it doesn't matter... and the abos do it...
How does any of that make it OK?
How does any of that mean we shouldn't investigate and persecute anyone that's been involved in child molestation, or covering it up???


There is no possible way to justify certain actions... so stop trying. It's disgusting.
And take your Aboriginal vs white shit somewhere else.

 

[GeneralSoreness]

Yes, because if your goal is to focus on stopping current abuse then there is clearly something wrong with you. You should be joining the witch hunt over events from 40 years ago.

That's the real issue to worry about.

And if we can successfully gloss over the ALP and their long history of paedophiles rising to high ranks then that is very good.

If you include those who commit suicide before being gaoled, there would be more than a dozen, wouldnt there?

I am with you its something about the limp moral values that the ALP champions that draws persons of questionable sexual practices. Give me the no nonsense blokey heterosexuality of a Chris Pyne or the world's most famous confirmed bachelor George Brandis - now they men's men

 

[HairyO]

Well Played Old Man - we all know the questionable morality of the ALP - they even have *gasp* a lesbian in their midst - they are not good family values people like the entire front bench of the Liberal Party. Upstanding individuals every one

Little bit sensitive when having to focus on your own, but very happy to accuse everyone of being right wing Catholics when it suits you.

Personally Im neither of those things. I just wish we would focus on current issues far more than 40 year old issues.

But that makes me some sort of apologist.

Yeah... I'm not going to get into a debate with on you on Aboriginal families vs white families.



And this RC isn't "an expensive grievance process"... what the hell is wrong with you?
Why don't you tell the victims that it doesn't matter, because it happened to them 40 years ago...
The posters in this thread who have talked about their harrowing experience.
Tell the people that it still happens to, that it does't matter, because it was 40 years ago, and it's all better now.

If the ALP have been hiding and promoting pedophiles, then **** them. Lock them up.
But it doesn't take away from what other people have done...

You're the one defending it... Saying it was a different time... and it was different socially... and it was so long ago it doesn't matter... and the abos do it...
How does any of that make it OK?
How does any of that mean we shouldn't investigate and persecute anyone that's been involved in child molestation, or covering it up???


There is no possible way to justify certain actions... so stop trying. It's disgusting.

So what is being done to stop abuse happening right now? Why arent we devoting enormous resources to that?

Why is it more important to look at events from 40 years ago?

If there is not going to be any major outcome from this, of course it is a grievance process.

Of course we should worry more about fixing things still happening.

 

[GeneralSoreness]

Little bit sensitive when having to focus on your own, but very happy to accuse everyone of being right wing Catholics when it suits you.

Personally Im neither of those things. I just wish we would focus on current issues far more than 40 year old issues.

But that makes me some sort of apologist.

I never accuse anyone of being a right wing Catholic - all a bit high Church for me - I find all that getting about in dresses makes me feel uncomfortable. That and the fact that they worship a Socialist dictator from Rome. Other than those fine men Tony Abbott, Corey Bernardi and Kevin Andrews who understand fully the concept of the separation of Church and State