"Sack Goodwin!"

(Log in to remove this ad.)

SugarHealey

Team Captain
Dec 15, 2008
423
85
Voyager 1
AFL Club
Melbourne
There has to be a 'come to jesus' moment before the next pre-season begins. I'm not sure who it will be to drive this in Goodwin and the group, but it's gotta happen.

We clearly have the talent, 2018 proved it. We have some holes in team, particularly on the outside, but other than that our list on paper is strong.

Hardwick turned it around completely within his tenure... i'm happy to back Goodwin and the wider team in.
Hardwick turned it around, when he brought in a lot more run and speed/spread into the 22.
 

Demon bhoy

Team Captain
Oct 7, 2017
576
292
AFL Club
Melbourne
Hardwick turned it around, when he brought in a lot more run and speed/spread into the 22.
He did but as others have pointed out Richmond played finals for 3 years before their down year, Melbourne have had a good eight week period in the last 13 years, and our coach will have a win percentage in the 40s by next year.

At the very least an overhaul of the 2008 game plan is needed
 

Gysberts2Bate

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2013
15,648
18,201
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
He did but as others have pointed out Richmond played finals for 3 years before their down year, Melbourne have had a good eight week period in the last 13 years, and our coach will have a win percentage in the 40s by next year.

At the very least an overhaul of the 2008 game plan is needed
We finished percentage out of finals in 2017 and would have made it in 2016 if we hadn’t pulled a classic Melbourne and lost to Carlton + the wooden spooners. I’m not saying we’re Richmond 2013 but you also can’t say we’ve just had a good eight week period. We were genuinely building for a few consecutive seasons - a few things go different and we play finals 2016-2018 (or, alternatively, miss finals 2016-2018). I don’t think our current rot is a return to the dark days but the cultural issues which led to us missing out in 2016 and 2017 clearly haven’t gone away, and 2018 was clearly not a big step up on 16/17 despite the finals run (arguably we played better football under Goodwin in 2017 than we did on 2018). We’re an up and down club and have been since we beat Geelong in Geelong in 2015.
 

SugarHealey

Team Captain
Dec 15, 2008
423
85
Voyager 1
AFL Club
Melbourne
He did but as others have pointed out Richmond played finals for 3 years before their down year, Melbourne have had a good eight week period in the last 13 years, and our coach will have a win percentage in the 40s by next year.

At the very least an overhaul of the 2008 game plan is needed
I'm not worried about the form this year with Regard to Goody's coaching, becaue we know our 1st half of Our season was obliterated with missing players and those who couldn't get above a trot., and so was Casey Demons, because of the same reasons.

I think what this ladder position does is, it will help us address a couple a list holes, that are a major weak point for our near future.
Early season, I was really concerned about Viney's physical health, and also Tom McDonald. I feel some relief in recent games with Viney.?
And McDonald as well to a point. I want to feel, that he will be OK physically, going forward.

If we can get our best players all fit for next season. plus add some more real talent onto our list this year, then I will be a very happy Lad, looking forward into 2020, and beyond that..
 
Last edited:

Demon bhoy

Team Captain
Oct 7, 2017
576
292
AFL Club
Melbourne
We finished percentage out of finals in 2017 and would have made it in 2016 if we hadn’t pulled a classic Melbourne and lost to Carlton + the wooden spooners. I’m not saying we’re Richmond 2013 but you also can’t say we’ve just had a good eight week period. We were genuinely building for a few consecutive seasons - a few things go different and we play finals 2016-2018 (or, alternatively, miss finals 2016-2018). I don’t think our current rot is a return to the dark days but the cultural issues which led to us missing out in 2016 and 2017 clearly haven’t gone away, and 2018 was clearly not a big step up on 16/17 despite the finals run (arguably we played better football under Goodwin in 2017 than we did on 2018). We’re an up and down club and have been since we beat Geelong in Geelong in 2015.
Yep lots of good points but I have no faith in Goodwins ability to turn it around, I thinks this is very much a case of the fish rotting at the head, hes going to have a winning percentage below 50 by seasons end with a list many good judges believed was the best in the league, it’s frustrating as fu**
 

SugarHealey

Team Captain
Dec 15, 2008
423
85
Voyager 1
AFL Club
Melbourne
If we don't make finals next year poach Roosy back for lols
Why, when Goody is helping us build our List, and team.?

Premature celebration in no good for any team. And getting ahead of our own reality is no good for Melbourne.

What we did last late last season, was merely a warning shot over the AFL ladder of what is around the corner for us.
We are on the march, but not there yet.
 

Demon bhoy

Team Captain
Oct 7, 2017
576
292
AFL Club
Melbourne
I'm not worried about the form this year with Regard to Goody's coaching, becaue we know our 1st half of Our season was obliterated with missing players and those who couldn't get above a trot., and so was Casey Demons, because of the same reasons.

I think what this ladder position does is, it will help us address a couple a list holes, that are a major weak point for our near future.
Early season, I was really concerned about Viney's physical health, and also Tom McDonald. I feel some relief in recent games with Viney.?
And McDonald as well to a point. I want to feel, that he will be OK physically, going forward.

If we can get our best players all fit for next season. plus add some more real talent onto our list this year, then I will be a very happy Lad, looking forward into 2020, and beyond that..
I need some of your optimism, I tend not to see injuries as an excuse and I do think this year is a reflection of a lot of self inflicted damage coaching and otherwise, hopefully 8 games from a clean slate and an injection of talent both on and off field
 

SugarHealey

Team Captain
Dec 15, 2008
423
85
Voyager 1
AFL Club
Melbourne
Yep lots of good points but I have no faith in Goodwins ability to turn it around
We don't want to turn things around, only to quickly turn into 'Fools Gold'.
We showed last season what Goody can-do. That wasn't imagination. It happened, But so did equally, the smashing we took over in Perth in the finals, exposing our weaker underbelly.

This weaker underbelly is what needs addressing in a substantial way. Before we can stay in September action in a steady and continued way, IMO.
We all know. And agree, on what we lack, but the key is how to we get those parts, to our equation.
It's not gentle quicks needed. We need tough, hardened, quick competitors, who can deliver some polish.

The way the club has gone since 2012, in regards recruiting is correct, and the base of contested-footy has to be the way forward. See, the culture of past Melbourne is the weak point, and to rebuild this club, it has to be done on the base of hard aggressive Contested-footy.

And onto that very basis, eveything built ontop of this, will be screened thru the ability to contest hard, & win your ball, and work hard for the team.
 

SugarHealey

Team Captain
Dec 15, 2008
423
85
Voyager 1
AFL Club
Melbourne
I need some of your optimism, I tend not to see injuries as an excuse and I do think this year is a reflection of a lot of self inflicted damage coaching and otherwise, hopefully 8 games from a clean slate and an injection of talent both on and off field
The Key is to stop thinking the AFL is a yearly thing. It's not, and it takes close to 10 years to rebuild a club list, to get it truly competition hardened to Finals stage.
Our rebuild is like no other, in that we had to start from scraping the floor boards, off field, and on.

Look i'm 62Yrs now, and have been around for most of the sad years.
So I don't look anymore, as this coming season is the one. Because of the knowledge of rebuilding list.

We had a Finals taste last year, just like Lockhart has had this year, and Spargo & Weide did, last year.
That doesn't mean everything continues to click along our way, with individual players. They all have ups and downs, particularly 2nd year kids.

And most AFL players take at least 5 years in the system, before they start to get consistent at the level. At around 23Yrs plus.

Then, you start to look at the list forming the side... and trying to get the best 22 to be playing in form, and consistently. Once that list is in a strong position.

Our list, I can see is at about 75% complete IMO, looking toward a potential Grand Final spot, with a real chance of winning it.

We need the influx of fresh real talent, to continue the build. And in most areas of the ground. Of our team. But the hard ball winning is the first and most important base to build up from.

The skills parts come after that hard won culture build.


Looking forward, the next 3 Years excite me the most since the early 90's, for me. Mid 90's we lost the mentality somewhere, I reckon.
We have to make sure that does not repeat, again.
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Demon bhoy

Team Captain
Oct 7, 2017
576
292
AFL Club
Melbourne
Look i'm 62Yrs now, and have been around for most of the sad years.

The Key is to stop thinking the AFL is a yearly thing. It's not, and it takes close to 10 years to rebuild a club list, to get it truly competition hardened to Finals stage.

So I don't look anymore, as this coming season is the one. Because of the knowledge of rebuilding list. We had a Finals taste last year, just like Lockhart has had this year, and Spargo & Weide did, last year.
That doesn't mean every continues to cllick along our way, with individual players. They all have ups and downs, particularly 2nd year kids.

And most AFL players take at least 5 years in the system, before they start to get consistent at the level. Starting at around 23Yrs plus.

Then you start to look at the list forming the side... and trying to get the best 22 to be playing in form, and consistently. Once the list is in a strong position.
Our list, I can see is at about 75% complete, IMO, looking to a potential Grand Final spot with a real chance of winning it.

We need the influx of fresh real talent, to continue the build. And in most areas of the ground. Of our team. But the hard ball winning is the first and most important base to build up from.

The skills parts come after that hard won culture build.


Looking forward, the next 3 Years excite me the most since the early 90's, for me. Mid 90's we lost the mentality somewhere, I reckon.
We have to make sure that does not repeat, again.
I struggle to share your optimistic view but certainly hope your right, I think Goodwin is out of his depth but he’s ours for at least one more year, fingers crossed this year is an aberration
 

SugarHealey

Team Captain
Dec 15, 2008
423
85
Voyager 1
AFL Club
Melbourne
I struggle to share your optimistic view but certainly hope your right, I think Goodwin is out of his depth but he’s ours for at least one more year, fingers crossed this year is an aberration
The club has improved its position off and on-field, every year he's been around the club, and in 2017-2018 we've done well, ladder wise. Last season we saw our stengrths, and our weaknesses, under the magnifying glass. That's the team we all saw, and the form they displayed.

That exposure showed us were we have to get to. and what we're lacking.
 

Demon bhoy

Team Captain
Oct 7, 2017
576
292
AFL Club
Melbourne
The club has improved its position off and on-field, every year he's been around the club, and in 2017-2018 we've done well, ladder wise. Last season we saw our stengrths, and our weaknesses, under the magnifying glass. That's the team we all saw, and the form they displayed.

That exposure showed us were we have to get to. and what we're lacking.
The problem I see is Goodwin did none of the hard work but looks like he is ******* up all the good stuff, I just don’t see a lot of signs he is a capable AFL coach
 

SugarHealey

Team Captain
Dec 15, 2008
423
85
Voyager 1
AFL Club
Melbourne
The problem I see is Goodwin did none of the hard work but looks like he is ******* up all the good stuff, I just don’t see a lot of signs he is a capable AFL coach
He showed it last year.

Sometimes we at Melbourne don't trust outsiders, but that's exactly what we need. We need to stop 'jobs-for-the-boys' metality, so we can stay up with AFL best practices. Even if the coach was from a hated club.

Even Clarko is struggling with his mob, after the finishing of the players he was fortunate to come by. A slice of luck was involved with getting Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Roughhead, Buddy. and the culture he inherited as the Hawks footy club.

The culture was bred in the 60's thru to the 90's. Clarko added to it, and refined it, and now seems to be moving away from what made him successful with the Hawks.?

Maybe Clarko's hoodwinked himself, outsmarted himself. Maybe he's refined them too far, from where they're success stemmed from in the first place.
And, did this same thing happen with Melbourne, in our past 55 Years.? Did we move away from the things that made us a powerful club, once upon a time.
 
Last edited:

Proper Gander

Owl whisperer and secret agent
Feb 15, 2015
16,165
26,526
Port Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Mt Buller Demons
Melbourne underperformed in terms of list capability big time in Goodwin’s first year.

Next year, 2018, Melbourne did quite well and all was forgiven. In my opinion though watching the whole year, rather than just the ‘hot’ periods where the group played well together, we still weren’t a consistent team that can be identified for a ‘brand’ or relied on for playing well.

This year - a horror show. But the horror isn’t new or surprising. I saw elements of it last year and the year before. There are two issues which are a) we aren’t a “well drilled” team that can rely on our structures and plan to help us when injuries or a random bad week with players down on form interfere. Second issue b) we have some serious flaws in how we approach the game such as the high press, the ‘kick it forwards at all costs rather than having a look’ thing, and the old defensive everyone fly for the ball at once. Which can happen in the forward line too.

I’m sorry but there are decided coaching problems. It pisses me off. This is a decent list and should be much better. Each week I’m watching individuals that range from enough talent to real guns of the AFL. And by and large they look like clowns.

Coaching has to be questioned.
 

HANDSOLO

All Australian
May 19, 2014
956
1,048
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Broncos
Melbourne underperformed in terms of list capability big time in Goodwin’s first year.

Next year, 2018, Melbourne did quite well and all was forgiven. In my opinion though watching the whole year, rather than just the ‘hot’ periods where the group played well together, we still weren’t a consistent team that can be identified for a ‘brand’ or relied on for playing well.

This year - a horror show. But the horror isn’t new or surprising. I saw elements of it last year and the year before. There are two issues which are a) we aren’t a “well drilled” team that can rely on our structures and plan to help us when injuries or a random bad week with players down on form interfere. Second issue b) we have some serious flaws in how we approach the game such as the high press, the ‘kick it forwards at all costs rather than having a look’ thing, and the old defensive everyone fly for the ball at once. Which can happen in the forward line too.

I’m sorry but there are decided coaching problems. It pisses me off. This is a decent list and should be much better. Each week I’m watching individuals that range from enough talent to real guns of the AFL. And by and large they look like clowns.

Coaching has to be questioned.
So eloquent! Much of the pain of 2017, and now this year is self inflicted by poor leadership and management decisions. My new strategy is

Wait

It

Out

I hope Goodwin makes me look foolish, but I fear we will not.
 

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Aug 29, 2010
34,613
42,219
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
The Lions savaged the Demons 20-6 in the centre clearances – the biggest differential in any AFL game this season – and it was their most significant victory in that statistic since round 14, 2011.

That day, against Fremantle, the difference was 15.

For Melbourne, it was the club's equal second-worst differential ever recorded.
 

HANDSOLO

All Australian
May 19, 2014
956
1,048
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Broncos
The Lions savaged the Demons 20-6 in the centre clearances – the biggest differential in any AFL game this season – and it was their most significant victory in that statistic since round 14, 2011.

That day, against Fremantle, the difference was 15.

For Melbourne, it was the club's equal second-worst differential ever recorded.
So you're saying......
 

Johnny Karate

All Australian
Apr 13, 2015
781
1,891
AFL Club
Melbourne
The Lions savaged the Demons 20-6 in the centre clearances – the biggest differential in any AFL game this season – and it was their most significant victory in that statistic since round 14, 2011.

That day, against Fremantle, the difference was 15.

For Melbourne, it was the club's equal second-worst differential ever recorded.
Sometimes clearance numbers can be deceiving. For example, we won the centre clearances against Collingwood but rarely did we get the ball forward of the original ruck contest before turning it over. However, in the Brisbane game it was an absolute mauling because they backed each other, got on the outside and used basic intelligence where if the options included: a) handball to teammate with two blokes on him; b) try to run through 5 tacklers; c) clear the area by kicking/handballing to a space. They’d choose c every time.
 

saj_21

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2007
7,662
4,646
unlisted
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Warney's IPL team!
Hardwick turned it around, when he brought in a lot more run and speed/spread into the 22.
There is a difference between having leg speed and speed of ball movement. Richmond in 2017/18 had both, notice how with some personnel change this year in terms of experience they look slower or have been "found out" its more to do with not having their prime movers out there as they still have plenty of leg speed. The beauty and deceptiveness with Richmond in 2017/18 was they moved the ball quick but there was some organised chaos in what they did and they brought the forward half pressure to match their chaos game style.

We move the ball way way to fast, have little ability to control the ball and don't have any pressure in the forward half.

By your rationale Baker and Hunt would be first picked each week.
 

Grimesy87

Team Captain
May 22, 2018
470
768
AFL Club
Melbourne
The Lions savaged the Demons 20-6 in the centre clearances – the biggest differential in any AFL game this season – and it was their most significant victory in that statistic since round 14, 2011.

That day, against Fremantle, the difference was 15.

For Melbourne, it was the club's equal second-worst differential ever recorded.
The midfield was as weak and insipid on Sunday as they've been for a long time. When they had the ball, they butchered it, and when they didn't have the ball, they picked and chose when to chase. Tackle numbers would have been our lowest in a long time I suggest. But not only that, the missed tackles, and the amount of times 3 to 4 Brisbane players would exit a stoppage with only 1 or 2 Melbourne players on the screen giving token chase efforts.

Coaches don't coach motivation like they used to 15 years ago. Players bring that, and the systems they put in place, the planning etc, that's what coaches implement. I highly doubt Goodwin tells the players to not chase and tackle, or not put pressure on. So unless he told them that, why don't they?

People say about preseason injuries etc, and sure there would be an element to that. But to still be using this as an excuse/justification in round 15 is disrespectful to the rest of us idiots here who keep wasting 3 hours a weekend watching them.

The scoreboard absolutely flattered Melbourne at half time, even 3/4 time on Sunday. Brisbane are a decent side but hardly unbeatable, or 2002 Brisbane-esque. It looked like several of our players gave up, especially after half time.
 
Top Bottom