"Sack Goodwin!"

Proper Gander

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Malthouse also recommended Neeld in a grand final year
Malthouse was a great coach but was also a tad certifiable.

I always imagine that recommendation as being a bit like the theory that it’s a good idea to recommend someone to act in your role during holidays who isn’t up to it, which means you look extra capable as a result
 

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Topkent

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Malthouse was a great coach but was also a tad certifiable.

I always imagine that recommendation as being a bit like the theory that it’s a good idea to recommend someone to act in your role during holidays who isn’t up to it, which means you look extra capable as a result
Like the decently looking girl who hangs around with fatties
 

DemonZombie_001

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Of course it's the coaches fault. The players can't execute basic skills because they are under immense pressure from the out-dated, high intensity game plan. We work incredibly hard to score goals and give them up for nothing, so it's no surprise that even when the opposition are a man down at half time, we're the ones struggling to run out games.

Spoiling each-other in marking contests, playing on at all costs, sacrificing everything to win the contested ball even if it leaves no one to receive it., they're coaching issues.
Against Adelaide the team had four of five clear opportunities to score a goal at the end of the game. You would have expected 80 percent of those to be taken. That is not the coaches fault.

The sacrificing everything to win the contested ball (or clumping) I agree and that comes back onto the coaches. But is that the coaching direction like lets kick the ball 7 km's into the air when going forward ?
 

djpaulydemon

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Of course it's the coaches fault. The players can't execute basic skills because they are under immense pressure from the out-dated, high intensity game plan. We work incredibly hard to score goals and give them up for nothing, so it's no surprise that even when the opposition are a man down at half time, we're the ones struggling to run out games.

Spoiling each-other in marking contests, playing on at all costs, sacrificing everything to win the contested ball even if it leaves no one to receive it... they're coaching issues.
I'm firmly in this camp. We have a taxing, basically idiotic game plan, which has been found out.

I'll never understand why we commit extra numbers to the contest when individually all of our mids are very good at winning their own ball.

With our list and some basic coaching teaching players how to find some time and space we would be decent again.

Whatever Rhyce Shaw is doing at the moment is a good example of making a midfield click again and getting the inside/ out balance right, with essentially the same players.
 

Topkent

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I'm firmly in this camp. We have a taxing, basically idiotic game plan, which has been found out.

I'll never understand why we commit extra numbers to the contest when individually all of our mids are very good at winning their own ball.

With our list and some basic coaching teaching players how to find some time and space we would be decent again.

Whatever Rhyce Shaw is doing at the moment is a good example of making a midfield click again and getting the inside/ out balance right, with essentially the same players.
Yep. The point of drafting someone like Oliver or Brayshaw is to let them battle out numbered and then take advantage of it on the outside
 

jhong

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I think it would be great if we actually played players in positions they were drafted in . Maybe they are being over coached as well . Petracca was drafted as a mid , yet we are trying to turn him into a sort of forward , why not try Oliver on a wing as he is being heavily tagged . Brayshaw is also not a natural winger yet there we plonk him . Viney is not a natural tagger but we had him on Neale who ran him off his legs . Fritz(lol) should be wing or half forward but we have him deep in defence ffs . I could go on . Weed in the ruck , the kid needs to be near the goals as he has shown he is mostly good in front of the sticks . These are coaching decisions , and development issues , and as much as the players need to take responsibility for what goes on during a game , if they are are just following instructions then the blame goes straight to the coaching staff or match day tactics whatever . Gawn limps into Monday on crutches and he is right to play . Seriously what the fu**. The longer this season has gone on the more i am getting angry at the staff more than the players. Rant over
 

Toump Ass

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Against Adelaide the team had four of five clear opportunities to score a goal at the end of the game. You would have expected 80 percent of those to be taken.
You'd think so, but when fatigue sets in kicking for goal and decision making turns to s**t. When every player is throwing their body into the contest it takes a toll especially when you don't get any reward for it (which we clearly don't: we're top 2 in the league for inside 50's, yet bottom 2 for goals scored).

It's shameful we couldn't run over the Lions even though Salem killed McInerney before half time or beat Adelaide when Sloane went off after quarter time.

(Oh and re: our forward entries, they've been slop since Goody took over from Roos, he's had more than enough time to sort that out)
 
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jhong

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You'd think so, but when fatigue sets in kicking for goal and decision making turns to s**t. When every player is throwing their body into the contest it takes a toll even when you don't get any reward for it (which we clearly don't: we're top 2 in the league for inside 50's, yet bottom 2 for goals scored).

It's shameful we couldn't run over the Lions even though Salem killed McInerney before half time or beat Adelaide when Sloane went off after quarter time.

(Oh and re: our forward entries, they've been slop since Goody took over from Roos, he's had more than enough time to sort that out)
That to me is the crutch of our problems . Can't imagine being a forward with the slop we have been delivering . Oh and someone should tell Hannan he does't have to fly for every ball . Maybe we should introduce a new thing like "Talk to each other out there" . A radical concept i realise but who knows , it might just catch on . :think:
 

Gysberts2Bate

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I think it would be great if we actually played players in positions they were drafted in . Maybe they are being over coached as well . Petracca was drafted as a mid , yet we are trying to turn him into a sort of forward , why not try Oliver on a wing as he is being heavily tagged . Brayshaw is also not a natural winger yet there we plonk him . Viney is not a natural tagger but we had him on Neale who ran him off his legs . Fritz(lol) should be wing or half forward but we have him deep in defence ffs . I could go on . Weed in the ruck , the kid needs to be near the goals as he has shown he is mostly good in front of the sticks . These are coaching decisions , and development issues , and as much as the players need to take responsibility for what goes on during a game , if they are are just following instructions then the blame goes straight to the coaching staff or match day tactics whatever . Gawn limps into Monday on crutches and he is right to play . Seriously what the ****. The longer this season has gone on the more i am getting angry at the staff more than the players. Rant over
I do like the idea of playing Oliver in an outside role. Let Brayshaw, Viney and Harmes focus on winning the ball (with others rotating) and let Oliver run amok.
 

jhong

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I do like the idea of playing Oliver in an outside role. Let Brayshaw, Viney and Harmes focus on winning the ball (with others rotating) and let Oliver run amok.
The thing that s**ts me the most is we are so predictable , i think petracca should be also in the mix as a mid , he is not a natural forward , no matter how hard they try to make him . He is a Mid , and with his body he should be in the midfield where he belongs , Same as Brayshaw , I just don't understand why our staff have these players in positions that just don't make sense.
 

DemonZombie_001

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The thing that s**ts me the most is we are so predictable , i think petracca should be also in the mix as a mid , he is not a natural forward , no matter how hard they try to make him . He is a Mid , and with his body he should be in the midfield where he belongs , Same as Brayshaw , I just don't understand why our staff have these players in positions that just don't make sense.
Maybe this is what is needed a fresh look at the positions players are being played in (granted this does mean a new coach). I just hope that Teague and Shaws recent success is not motivating some people to get rid of Goodwin.
 

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Just cause a great coach recommends someone doesn't mean anything.

Its jobs for the mates as you can tell by the current state of the MFC assistant coaching ranks.
 

Cannon82

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I don't think 666 has hurt us, what's hurt us is teams have focused on defending the quick ball movement through the corridor, teams went from last year focusing on quick ball movement to beat the press to now moving it more conservatively to defend the turnover which is/was the greatest means of conceding.

Teams want you to handball it now and we give it to them
6-6-6 has had an effect. Goody's favourite tactic to stop opposition teams getting a run on last year was to chuck 8 in the back 50 and have one or two players charging from the defensive side of the square to or past the midfield group to swamp the opposition mids or pick up a loose rock themselves. I think we'd have managed to put the brakes on Brisbane a bit more on the weekend to curb that centre square dominance they had if Goody could flood our defensive half like he prefers to, so the rule change has hurt us to an extent IMO.

On the other shoe, I'd imagine that comical Gold Coast result might not have come about were everyone allowed to line up in the back half after a goal, so maybe the effects have evened out given our s**tness is a much more significant factor.
 

Cannon82

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Yep. The point of drafting someone like Oliver or Brayshaw is to let them battle out numbered and then take advantage of it on the outside
You've clearly misunderstood the point of being a contested team. The players aren't just competing against the opposition, but also their teammates as well. Hence being able to throw a blanket over 16 Dees at a stoppage or 9 guys going up to mark or spoil the same ball. You really know a player is a contested beast when they've chalked up 35 possessions against their direct opponent, 9 teammates and their direct opponents as well. Amazeballs.
 

Cannon82

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That to me is the crutch of our problems . Can't imagine being a forward with the slop we have been delivering . Oh and someone should tell Hannan he does't have to fly for every ball . Maybe we should introduce a new thing like "Talk to each other out there" . A radical concept i realise but who knows , it might just catch on . :think:
They weren't much good under Roos either, but we weren't as fussed about it when Chris Dawes, a young Hogan or Cam Pedersen are on the end of those deliveries.
 

stEdy

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I just want to see him go ballistic, like, all these years of repressed rage at our sloppy skills or missed tackles just comes flooding out at some poor player, maybe at a Wagner turnover or a Nibbler fumble
 

Topkent

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6-6-6 has had an effect. Goody's favourite tactic to stop opposition teams getting a run on last year was to chuck 8 in the back 50 and have one or two players charging from the defensive side of the square to or past the midfield group to swamp the opposition mids or pick up a loose rock themselves. I think we'd have managed to put the brakes on Brisbane a bit more on the weekend to curb that centre square dominance they had if Goody could flood our defensive half like he prefers to, so the rule change has hurt us to an extent IMO.

On the other shoe, I'd imagine that comical Gold Coast result might not have come about were everyone allowed to line up in the back half after a goal, so maybe the effects have evened out given our s**tness is a much more significant factor.
We were conceding runs of goals last year and the year before. I don't think we put more men behind the footy than any other team and everyone's playing to the same rules. Its been far worse having 15 teams training a game style to counter our style essentially.
 

Cannon82

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We were conceding runs of goals last year and the year before. I don't think we put more men behind the footy than any other team and everyone's playing to the same rules. Its been far worse having 15 teams training a game style to counter our style essentially.
Yes, we did. Maybe we'd have conceded even more if Goodwin hadn't done the typical thing and thrown 2 or 3 more men back to try to shore up the back line. Its like saying changing the number of players on the park from 18 per side to 16 per side wouldn't make a difference because each side still has the same number of players, even though there's more room on the park and therefore being fitter and quicker becomes a higher priority. With 6-6-6, we can't have a loose man in the back line as everyone is marking up, so clean centre clearances are more effective than in open play / other stoppages. I don't see how you can say it hasn't had an effect when its pretty easy to work out it will do, particularly in higher scoring games.

And teams haven't really countered our game style, its not hard to let our guys dive over the same ball or go up for the same mark and just wait for it to drop into the other teams hands or turn it over. Not really a scheme of genius to counteract the way we like to play.
 

Topkent

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Yes, we did. Maybe we'd have conceded even more if Goodwin hadn't done the typical thing and thrown 2 or 3 more men back to try to shore up the back line. Its like saying changing the number of players on the park from 18 per side to 16 per side wouldn't make a difference because each side still has the same number of players, even though there's more room on the park and therefore being fitter and quicker becomes a higher priority. With 6-6-6, we can't have a loose man in the back line as everyone is marking up, so clean centre clearances are more effective than in open play / other stoppages. I don't see how you can say it hasn't had an effect when its pretty easy to work out it will do, particularly in higher scoring games.

And teams haven't really countered our game style, its not hard to let our guys dive over the same ball or go up for the same mark and just wait for it to drop into the other teams hands or turn it over. Not really a scheme of genius to counteract the way we like to play.
There aren't rules stopping you from dropping numbers back during the play. Has it affected us? Yep
I'd say our stubbornness in a poorly chosen ball movement style is doing far more damage.

They haven't countered us per se but They have all set up to stop quick ball movement and then control the ball the other way to protect against their own turnover.
 

Cannon82

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There aren't rules stopping you from dropping numbers back during the play. Has it affected us? Yep
I'd say our stubbornness in a poorly chosen ball movement style is doing far more damage.

They haven't countered us per se but They have all set up to stop quick ball movement and then control the ball the other way to protect against their own turnover.
No, just centre square stoppages, like I said. There's nothing stopping a team from having a wingman sprint straight back into the backline for example, but they're not in position for a quick clearance out of the centre and they'd leave a free man behind them who could easily get the ball out of the stoppage. With no runners now, its not that easy to direct the players around as the coach pleases, and if you have a few goals in a quarter, its going to make a bit of a mess of the structure if someone keeps starting a fair distance from where they want to be after every goal and has to get on their bicycle each time.

I'm not saying its worth 8 goals a game, but you can clearly think this one through and see how it'd effect Goodwin's game plan. Feels more like you're just sticking to your argument because you don't want to budge. You are also a campaigner.
 

lioninthesand

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I think this could be your Guys version of 2006 at the Cats, where they had a big fall off and Bomber nearly got the chop after building well for a few years. Not suggesting you will win by a million points in a granny next year, but I think moving on Goody is too soon. We have seen recently with Hardwick, Buckley etc that holding fire through tough times can pay off. With the Injuries and obstacles you Guys have had there are too many unknowns, plus you are competitive, its not 100 belting stuff.

I hope the club gives him another year, resets, hopefully had a good preseason and see what he can do next year. You are still a talent rich young team. You defs needs a clearer avenue to goal.

My only concern with Goodwin is, he looks to be visibly under a lot of pressure, even at his presser on Monday, he looked like he was going to cry or pass out when talking about your form. Pressure got the best of Leppa in his time with us, when that s**t sets in it's a slippery slope. hoping it's not the case.
 

Proper Gander

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I think this could be your Guys version of 2006 at the Cats, where they had a big fall off and Bomber nearly got the chop after building well for a few years. Not suggesting you will win by a million points in a granny next year, but I think moving on Goody is too soon. We have seen recently with Hardwick, Buckley etc that holding fire through tough times can pay off. With the Injuries and obstacles you Guys have had there are too many unknowns, plus you are competitive, its not 100 belting stuff.

I hope the club gives him another year, resets, hopefully had a good preseason and see what he can do next year. You are still a talent rich young team. You defs needs a clearer avenue to goal.

My only concern with Goodwin is, he looks to be visibly under a lot of pressure, even at his presser on Monday, he looked like he was going to cry or pass out when talking about your form. Pressure got the best of Leppa in his time with us, when that s**t sets in it's a slippery slope. hoping it's not the case.
Goody always looks a bit nuts, but you might be right that he’s looking a bit more strained nuts then his regular nuts of late.
 
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