Review Saints vs Cats review

[sunny3193]

Yeah I know, I'm like the bi polar poster on here. One win and I'm talking us up, half a bad quarter and I lose my s**t...it helps me cope though.

I'd prefer to think of you as the board's barometer.
When you're up and about....

 

[sverik25]

No. But being Pollyannas and back slappers won't help us beating them either

I am just after some realistic analysis rather than teenage fan noise stuff about how awesome we are along with million excuses about umpires age of players Selwood ducking toe pokes etc etc etc etc. Anything else but facing the fact our club might be full of idiots running the joint .

You've attacked posters at one end of the spectrum, yet you're at the exact opposite end of the spectrum. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not sure about the two rucks playing, ( although I really dislike Bruce doing it) but a lot of VERY well - made points here.

The reason you don't play two, is because its better to run another mid.
CF's point was that one of our mid's is useless anyway.

 

[sunny3193]

WRT to the midfield, perhaps Richo's backed the wrong horse & invested too heavily in developing too few? Dunstan has been given so much opportunity to be part of the midfield rotations whereas others have been given very limited opportunity & as such we are now finding we lack any depth in the midfield.

You could well be right, though I do recall a piece on Seb Ross earlier in the year where he was explaining that he needed to develop forward skills because of the influx of mids over trade/draft. Which seems to indicate that there is a strategic appreciation of the issue.
I just think our mid group needs a lot more work, a lot more development and as a result a lot more patience from us.
We are not good enough to match the top sides yet.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You don't think we'd be too tall though? And a little slow?
I'd rather see Sinclair than Lonie at the mo.

Not too tall, they take turns resting. That means we have only 50% TOG for them, but hell Dunstan only gets sixty something anyway.
If Hickey is rested more he may be more lethal when he plays.
Not the worst idea IMO.

 

[gringo2011]

Well so much for strictest confidence now you've posted it here

If it is true that Paddy was given a the kick up the bum and read the riot act, then maybe he needed it. I'd say getting pissed off isn't the reaction we need from him. Nor should we expect it.

Nah just the link to who it was who gave the info, I don't think the guy will mind it getting out there as it's not to controversial but wouldn't want to let people know where the leak came from. He doesn't give much info but it's usually spot on as he has a good club contact. I'm not sure how much mayo I put on that, he said words to the effect he was upset. We both as Saints supporters came to the conclusion he will be the next Josh Kennedy if he leaves us.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

You've attacked posters at one end of the spectrum, yet you're at the exact opposite end of the spectrum. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.

What I find interesting about reading these boards during our re-build is that you see clearly the distinction in human behaviour between optimists and pessimists.

There have been some really interesting studies done of millionaires that shows they are most often optimists and surround themselves with optimistic people as they see it is crucial to success.

Anyone who has done a big/long-term project with a team knows what is meant by this. There is nothing worse than when you are struggling but knowing you are getting somewhere and trying to keep spirits up of those around you, only to be brought down by those that get stuck in negative moments and bogged down in the forest while not seeing the trees.

Like with the Saints now. I mean, most of us are paid up members and have known exactly where we are at with our re-build. The club has been transparent with their list building. We have known that we have prioritised picking up KPPs at the expense of midfielders because they take longer to develop. But even knowing this, when our midfield gets beaten by a better one, many of us on this board go into a state of self-flagellation about the state of our midfield. This is even though we know from the powers that be that we are still another season and off-season away from adding more quality to the midfield and getting the boost that will come from getting games into the young blokes we already have on the list.

I don't for a second think that those at the club from Finnis down get caught up too much in the win-loss cycle because they know our re-build isn't decided on weekly results but more on blocks of whole seasons. Yes there are things that can be tinkered with and learned on a weekly basis but the real battle is getting games into these young blokes so they can turn 3 quarter performances into 4. There are no short cuts, it's simply going to take time.

I admit I'm an optimist and think it is the only way to be when you want to achieve something really big in life. The thing is, as supporters, I don't get why we would be pessimistic about something we really have no control over. Let's have faith in those in power at the club, know they are looking for long-term, sustainable success and not get bogged down in all that is wrong with the re-build. And maybe even enjoy the footy for what it is right now in the re-building stage of our march towards sustained success from 2018 onwards.

 

[sunny3193]

What I find interesting about reading these boards during our re-build is that you see clearly the distinction in human behaviour between optimists and pessimists.

There have been some really interesting studies done of millionaires that shows they are most often optimists and surround themselves with optimistic people as they see it is crucial to success.

Anyone who has done a big/long-term project with a team knows what is meant by this. There is nothing worse than when you are struggling but knowing you are getting somewhere and trying to keep spirits up of those around you, only to be brought down by those that get stuck in negative moments and bogged down in the forest while not seeing the trees.

Like with the Saints now. I mean, most of us are paid up members and have known exactly where we are at with our re-build. The club has been transparent with their list building. We have known that we have prioritised picking up KPPs at the expense of midfielders because they take longer to develop. But even knowing this, when our midfield gets beaten by a better one, many of us on this board go into a state of self-flagellation about the state of our midfield. This is even though we know from the powers that be that we are still another season and off-season away from adding more quality to the midfield and getting the boost that will come from getting games into the young blokes we already have on the list.

I don't for a second think that those at the club from Finnis down get caught up too much in the win-loss cycle because they know our re-build isn't decided on weekly results but more on blocks of whole seasons. Yes there are things that can be tinkered with and learned on a weekly basis but the real battle is getting games into these young blokes so they can turn 3 quarter performances into 4. There are no short cuts, it's simply going to take time.

I admit I'm an optimist and think it is the only way to be when you want to achieve something really big in life. The thing is, as supporters, I don't get why we would be pessimistic about something we really have no control over. Let's have faith in those in power at the club, know they are looking for long-term, sustainable success and not get bogged down in all that is wrong with the re-build. And maybe even enjoy the footy for what it is right now in the re-building stage of our march towards sustained success from 2018 onwards.

As an optimist, I get it.
Great post.

 

[gringo2011]

He is not considered a fair way back, he is considered to have had sever food poisoning then got knocked out in his first game back.
Take some pills or something.

Never, losing my s**t is my thing. I preferred it when we were proper s**t, I had no expectations and life was good. One week I think we are close and a week later we look a million miles away. Geelong meanwhile just keep top 8 and find guns without high picks, * I hate them and their ducking flog.

 

[gringo2011]

What I find interesting about reading these boards during our re-build is that you see clearly the distinction in human behaviour between optimists and pessimists.

There have been some really interesting studies done of millionaires that shows they are most often optimists and surround themselves with optimistic people as they see it is crucial to success.

Anyone who has done a big/long-term project with a team knows what is meant by this. There is nothing worse than when you are struggling but knowing you are getting somewhere and trying to keep spirits up of those around you, only to be brought down by those that get stuck in negative moments and bogged down in the forest while not seeing the trees.

Like with the Saints now. I mean, most of us are paid up members and have known exactly where we are at with our re-build. The club has been transparent with their list building. We have known that we have prioritised picking up KPPs at the expense of midfielders because they take longer to develop. But even knowing this, when our midfield gets beaten by a better one, many of us on this board go into a state of self-flagellation about the state of our midfield. This is even though we know from the powers that be that we are still another season and off-season away from adding more quality to the midfield and getting the boost that will come from getting games into the young blokes we already have on the list.

I don't for a second think that those at the club from Finnis down get caught up too much in the win-loss cycle because they know our re-build isn't decided on weekly results but more on blocks of whole seasons. Yes there are things that can be tinkered with and learned on a weekly basis but the real battle is getting games into these young blokes so they can turn 3 quarter performances into 4. There are no short cuts, it's simply going to take time.

I admit I'm an optimist and think it is the only way to be when you want to achieve something really big in life. The thing is, as supporters, I don't get why we would be pessimistic about something we really have no control over. Let's have faith in those in power at the club, know they are looking for long-term, sustainable success and not get bogged down in all that is wrong with the re-build. And maybe even enjoy the footy for what it is right now in the re-building stage of our march towards sustained success from 2018 onwards.

I have my own business and in real life I'm very optimistic as you can't do anything entrepreneurial with out an almost delusional amount of optimism. I don't know if it because it's something I have zero control over and at the same time I'm a little bit overly competitive, but I get an over the top emotional response from losses. I think I followed the wrong club...or perhaps it's like that experiment with rats where they rather feel pain than be bored.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

I have my own business and in real life I'm very optimistic as you can't do anything entrepreneurial with out an almost delusional amount of optimism. I don't know if it because it's something I have zero control over and at the same time I'm a little bit overly competitive, but I get an over the top emotional response from losses. I think I followed the wrong club...or perhaps it's like that experiment with rats where they rather feel pain than be bored.

Same here, have my own business and work in teams in a creative field so I find it is amazing working on different projects with optimists and pessimists. I honestly see little benefit from pessimists when it comes to teams. Sure, if they are good at what they do they can give good results but the journey sure isn't fun and it is spoiled for others around them. They can also strangle potential growth and opportunities by shooting down those that are able to see the potential of any given thing.

Having supported the Saints for almost 40 years, the off-field, admin, coaches and playing group are pretty much all singing from the same song-sheet for the first time in my life-time. I feel us long-suffering supporters - instead of being beaten down by years without a flag - should know more than anyone that we are going in the right direction because we sure as hell know what the wrong direction is! I think I said on another thread, if we can't feel optimism for the future based on where we are now and where we are going, we might as well give up supporting a footy team.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Not too tall, they take turns resting. That means we have only 50% TOG for them, but hell Dunstan only gets sixty something anyway.
If Hickey is rested more he may be more lethal when he plays.
Not the worst idea IMO.

Resting on the bench? Instead of another mid? Because I seem to remember, a long time ago I'll admit, that Hickey wasn't really good enough resting forward when we did play the two together. And I doubt Longer could do it.

I'm really keen to get Stevens in the middle, I don't think we can play two rucks...we just have to decide which is more beneficial for us - a big, strong, imposing presence who can win the hitouts, or a more mobile, around the ground guy who can take marks and bob up to take marks in defence or forward.

 

[austinnn]

What I find interesting about reading these boards during our re-build is that you see clearly the distinction in human behaviour between optimists and pessimists.

There have been some really interesting studies done of millionaires that shows they are most often optimists and surround themselves with optimistic people as they see it is crucial to success.

Anyone who has done a big/long-term project with a team knows what is meant by this. There is nothing worse than when you are struggling but knowing you are getting somewhere and trying to keep spirits up of those around you, only to be brought down by those that get stuck in negative moments and bogged down in the forest while not seeing the trees.

Like with the Saints now. I mean, most of us are paid up members and have known exactly where we are at with our re-build. The club has been transparent with their list building. We have known that we have prioritised picking up KPPs at the expense of midfielders because they take longer to develop. But even knowing this, when our midfield gets beaten by a better one, many of us on this board go into a state of self-flagellation about the state of our midfield. This is even though we know from the powers that be that we are still another season and off-season away from adding more quality to the midfield and getting the boost that will come from getting games into the young blokes we already have on the list.

I don't for a second think that those at the club from Finnis down get caught up too much in the win-loss cycle because they know our re-build isn't decided on weekly results but more on blocks of whole seasons. Yes there are things that can be tinkered with and learned on a weekly basis but the real battle is getting games into these young blokes so they can turn 3 quarter performances into 4. There are no short cuts, it's simply going to take time.

I admit I'm an optimist and think it is the only way to be when you want to achieve something really big in life. The thing is, as supporters, I don't get why we would be pessimistic about something we really have no control over. Let's have faith in those in power at the club, know they are looking for long-term, sustainable success and not get bogged down in all that is wrong with the re-build. And maybe even enjoy the footy for what it is right now in the re-building stage of our march towards sustained success from 2018 onwards.

Well said! So much sense being posted in the last few hours, such a relief from the automatic assumption our club is incompetent. Thank you Sunny, NH, CF and co.

 

[austinnn]

Resting on the bench? Instead of another mid? Because I seem to remember, a long time ago I'll admit, that Hickey wasn't really good enough resting forward when we did play the two together. And I doubt Longer could do it.

I'm really keen to get Stevens in the middle, I don't think we can play two rucks...we just have to decide which is more beneficial for us - a big, strong, imposing presence who can win the hitouts, or a more mobile, around the ground guy who can take marks and bob up to take marks in defence or forward.

I remember Hickey playing up in the forward line at times last year or the year before. Wasn't consistent, but it worked better than Bruce rucking has. He even turned a game from up there with his attack on oppo and goal once or twice.

 

[plugger66]

-24 in contested ball.

-5 in clearance. God forbid we could at least match a team let alone with that area for once.

Steven and Ross the only players who can rack up touches.

But yes the major problem with the team is the 5 mins a quarter that Bruce goes into the ruck.

Staggering.

Is there actually any fact to back that up? I reckon we got killed when Longer was mostly rucking in the third and fourth. Bruce doesn't win hit outs but that is the most overrated stat in footy.

 

[Rors]

The Edgy.
Bundy and Coke
St Bedes.
Hmmm.
Got a Labore et Honore tat on your right buttock?

On the money, but no tatt

Easy to go to the Edgy so often when growing up living on Mentone Parade

 

[Cannavaro20]

Thoughts on the game

1. Good performance for 85% of the game.
2. Gresham, dunstan, roberton, billings sure they didn't have their best game but thats football. Far from panick stations. Speak to any cat fan, they are releived to have won, acknowledge the umps were ****ed and that selwood got them over the line.
3. Personally I think that we look better with paddy in the team. And struggled with only membrey upfront when bruxe was in the ruck.
4. Ross... wow... looking great. Think back to two years ago. No one would have thought(except for maybe the club and ITKs etc) he would be this good...and there is plenty more to come(keep that in mind when melting over dunstan.... two avg games and pple make comments like go to the VFL)... the idea is to win a premiership. Not quit if we don't win tomorrow.
4. Longer meh. He was good in the ruck. Happy to give him a run at it. 5 games will be good for him, the club etc.
5. Steven, loved him in the team. Can't wait until we can add to our midfiels arsenal. Steven will have even more freedom

Thoughts on our season and squad.

1. Season, definitely the bottom end of possibilities. We have been very good in 80% of most games cept melb... too bad they don't give 4 points after 80% of game time. Still I think we have improved, and we are on track. We will explode soon, this season, next or the one after and if not maybe someone else can get it out of our list. But we have the core of something special. I draw this conclusion because not matter who we come up against we make them look silly for long periods. I.e. geelong, collingwood and with a midfield made up of mostly kids.

2. Paddy and our drafting... fricken great. Firstly paddy, he was the right pick. Petracca and Bradshaw, what are people smoking right now those two have shown something to suggest we have missed out on something uber special. Paddy has shows on at least 10 occassions that he can clunk em. Not since kosi in 09 have we had this. Give him time.

2. Midfield. Steele, ross, steven, billings, dunstan and acres. All bar one have played only 50 or so games or not even. Not surprising they lost the last 10 to sel..danger... duncan...all who havee played 150 plus. (i was reading the hawks big footy forum... and read a comment that one made about their attitude before their first of their 3-peat i.e. they are too slow. Burgoyne is a bum etc. Then wam bam.... watch us transpire in a few years!). Also re. Billings... did anyone actually see bont in the champs... pfff you wouldn't take him with pick 3. This happens every year in the draft... i.e. everyone could have had dane swan 3 times!


3. Draft picks and cash. We are the envy of the league. Likely two picks in the top 10(hopefully ours is pick 10 after finishing 8th )
Two mids... hopefuly one hopper whitfield fyfe etc... fingers crossed.

Stay strong saints. Give em a chance. If we are doing this at the end of next year... then it's time reasses.

Go Saints!





Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

 

[plugger66]

I remember Hickey playing up in the forward line at times last year or the year before. Wasn't consistent, but it worked better than Bruce rucking has. He even turned a game from up there with his attack on oppo and goal once or twice.

But it doesn't work better than Bruce rucking. If Hickey plays as a forward he needs to be nearly as good as the player he replaces both offensively and defensively. I cant see how he can be based on what he has done in his career and we know Longer just cant play forward.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Never, losing my s**t is my thing. I preferred it when we were proper s**t, I had no expectations and life was good. One week I think we are close and a week later we look a million miles away. Geelong meanwhile just keep top 8 and find guns without high picks, **** I hate them and their ducking flog.

I think you've hit it on the head....the expectations

With the WCE game I would have been happy to have a competitive loss, just because of our travel record and the way we lost there last season. But once we were in it up to our eyeballs and SHOULD have won it, the disappointment and frustration with the loss was huge.

With the Cats, even though we beat and drew with them the past two seasons, I wasn't convinced we could beat them, but suddenly, because we matched it with them for so long the expectation grew, and then after being overrun, the frustration, as witnessed by the melts on this board, just overflowed.

Having said all that, barring a pretty putrid round 1, when have we looked a million miles away? The last ten minutes against WCE and Geelong?
We were told how much better the Lions and Pies midfields were, but we beat them anyway.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you've hit it on the head....the expectations

With the WCE game I would have been happy to have a competitive loss, just because of our travel record and the way we lost there last season. But once we were in it up to our eyeballs and SHOULD have won it, the disappointment and frustration with the loss was huge.

With the Cats, even though we beat and drew with them the past two seasons, I wasn't convinced we could beat them, but suddenly, because we matched it with them for so long the expectation grew, and then after being overrun, the frustration, as witnessed by the melts on this board, just overflowed.

Having said all that, barring a pretty putrid round 1, when have we looked a million miles away? The last ten minutes against WCE and Geelong?
We were told how much better the Lions and Pies midfields were, but we beat them anyway.

That's solid logic that cracks my pessimism down to size. I guess it's more I can't find a form line and at the same time know this year every game needs to count or finals slips away very quickly. I'm finding it a very anxiety inducing season for some reason and fluctuate wildly between believing and completely losing faith. I actually think we get every scrap out of what we have on the park but I'd like a rolls royce team not another battlers special who bravely grind out small victories. I imagined this obvious improvement coming from the kids and a season like 2004 being a possibility but I'm starting to sense another year I'm going to have to temper expectation.

 

[Longmembrey]

Not too tall, they take turns resting. That means we have only 50% TOG for them, but hell Dunstan only gets sixty something anyway.
If Hickey is rested more he may be more lethal when he plays.
Not the worst idea IMO.

Yep, definitely worth a try. If Ruck men are valued so highly then just play two of them. Longer 60% ruck, 40% bench. Hickey 40% ruck, 20% fwd, 40% bench. At least we also have coverage for injury unlike MelBourne tonight. Cost them the game

 

[plugger66]

Yep, definitely worth a try. If Ruck men are valued so highly then just play two of them. Longer 60% ruck, 40% bench. Hickey 40% ruck, 20% fwd, 40% bench. At least we also have coverage for injury unlike MelBourne tonight. Cost them the game

There is no way a side could have a ruckman on the bench for 80% of the game and then match midfields who have 4 players constantly rotating off the bench we would have fractionally over 3. Teams are playing less and less rucks so having 2 ruckmen that can play in one position would be suicidal.

 

[Diehard Saint]

That's solid logic that cracks my pessimism down to size. I guess it's more I can't find a form line and at the same time know this year every game needs to count or finals slips away very quickly. I'm finding it a very anxiety inducing season for some reason and fluctuate wildly between believing and completely losing faith. I actually think we get every scrap out of what we have on the park but I'd like a rolls royce team not another battlers special who bravely grind out small victories. I imagined this obvious improvement coming from the kids and a season like 2004 being a possibility but I'm starting to sense another year I'm going to have to temper expectation.

I agree completely.
Last year we didn't really have expectations....and we exceeded anything we thought we were going to do. Over achieved in fact.
This in turn, really put the expectation on us for this season. And I think in a way we have to temper our expectations. If we finish 9th again, with a more difficult draw, is that not considered a successful season THIS year?

I suppose we'd all like a Rolls Royce team, but we didn't even have that in 2009, just a handful of Rolls Royce players.

I feel your pain, I think we all do, this waiting game can be bloody soul destroying, and there's no guarantee at the end either!

 

[dct66]

Pretty ordinary booing Selwood. Thought you guys were better than that.

I thought it was excellent booing and in context. Selwood got a few soft frees (in our opinion) in the first quarter including one where he ran into his own man. It wasn't historical or hysterical it was because of what happened in that first quarter.

I seemed to notice Geelong supporters booing Riewoldt late in the game for some reason, what was that about? Thought you were better than that.

 

[VDS66]

Actually not fussed if we don't make finals. Apart from being a subjective sign that we have improved, no point being there unless you are half a chance at the big one.

I recall 2008. We went deep but were so far off the pace it wasn't funny.

So other than a quick high, not fussed at all.