No Oppo Supporters Sam Mitchell traded

[flinchfree]

Kobe played every game he was listed for, sways starting, not sure about your couldn't get off the bench comment? I went to LA and saw three of his lst games this year to savour his memory (missed his last game by one day, brutal I know).

Not sure how you can say bad drafting? Russell and Ingram will both be all stars for their career, and the other core of randel, nance and Clarkson is very strong.

Lakers issue was trading to future first round picks for Nash, whom barely played and we still lose this year if we finish outside bottom 3. Kobe's contract had no bearing on lakers hitting the second bottom of he ladder, it was bound to happen after back to back championships and nearly 10 years of trading first round picks for vets to keep the run going.



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2013-14
Games played: 6

2014-15
Games played: 35

2015-16
Games played: 66

The first 2 years listed are self-explanatory.
In 2015-16, he played alot of games and lots of minutes, at the expense of the development of young draftees like the ones you mentioned, Russell, Clarkson, Randel etc.... Putting up the most stupid looking attempts at times leaving many who watched just wincing at the sight of a man so far past his prime, it was painful.

Did he have some special special moments even so?
Yes, yes he did.
But he gave numerous interviews through the year describing what an ordeal it was just getting on to the court, how he couldn't practice through the week, and spent more time with ice wrapped around him than anything else. He also admitted a number of times that he regularly questioned if he could get through to the end of the year.

Not sure what you were watching, perhaps as a 'fan' you paid for some tickets to a Kobe show you didn't want to miss, but if you are an NBA follower you seem to have missed the entire story.

Oh, and re their drafting, get back to me when those players you've named are ALL Stars.
Russell is immature as heck and wrecked their locker room by releasing video of a mate who was talking about cheating on an Aussie songstress.
Randle has stagnated or gone backwards for most of his time.
Clarkson comes off the bench and sometimes lights it up, sometimes not.
They're starting Hibbert at Center......good lord.

The Lakers turned a dynasty that has been must watch since bringing in Magic Johnson in 1980 into a shambolic mess.
You stun me with your lack of knowledge.

 

[QuietB]

Because as a point guard he will be setting up his shooting guard for his career, regardless if the shooting guard makes the shot?

Regardless, it's silly to say a shooting guard shooting hindered the development of a point guard, especially when that shooting guard is the second best in the history of the NBA.


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1/ 2nd best is very questionable - plenty would argue he was not even the best of his generation
2/ Most offences consist of more than the shooting guard playing iso ball jacking up 3's
3/ Kobe's career 3pt % is pretty poor and this last season he decided to start jacking up more than ever. Cause he was past it basically.
4/ Everything comes to an end, as did Kobe and will Mitchell

 

[LuckyHawk]

Don't worry about the number of premierships Kennedy has won, worry about the high quality player he has become which we gift wrapped to a team who beat us in our only grand final loss in the past 5 years.

Yep, and you can add if Kennedy was a Hawk in 2012 we would have four in a row.

 

[hk89]

After processing the information from Wright's 1:30pm presser, I'm more confused than ever.
From the information revealed at the presser:
- We are refusing to trade Lewis because he is contracted and required, even if he wants to go, we'll not let him.
- We don't have any other trades planned besides JOM.
- We don't have the JOM deal done, and it will not be done until next week at the earliest (and he didn't look massively optimistic to be honest).
- We don't have a cap space issue, and that is not why Sam left.
- We consider ourselves contenders for the flag in 2017.
- Wright doesn't want to use the word rebuild, and prefers to see us as improving our list, but concedes moving Sam for pick 88 is not improving our list.

Information we knew already
- Sam was contracted for another year.
- Sam didn't bring up the idea of being traded to WC, Clarko did. Sam was considering a coaching job there after his career was over.
- Sam just won our B&F and was clearly our best player for the year.

When joining all that information together I don't understand the answers to these questions:
- Why did we trade our best player who was still contracted and we could have forced to stay when we were happy to force Lewis to stay?
- Why did we raise the idea of him leaving when we didn't need the cap space for JOM, and are not considering any other trades?
- Why would we trade out a player of that quality when we are contending for a flag next year?

If Sam had raised this idea himself, and we'd let him go, then I can see the point. He's given damn good service, and deserves to get what he wants. But it was us that put this in front of him. Sure it is good for him, but the club officials also need to look after the club, and putting ideas like this into the minds of their contracted players seems to have tilted a little too far in the direction of the player versus the club. If we have no more trades planned we have effectively zero benefit, if we are bringing in a big fish next year, then Sam could have moved at the end of next year. Apparently we can't front end a PSD contract, and any contract would have to be at least 2 years, so we can't offer our (guessed) 1.2M cap space in a 1 year contract , and can't front end a 2 year PSD offer, as the matching only needs to match total value.

So what is the club getting out of it? They free up some development time for new players, but if we are in contention next year, and as expected we lose a bunch of 4 time premier players at the end of next year, why can't we put off that development for 1 year in the hope of another flag in 2017?

I find the entire thing baffling. It seems like no matter how hard you look, it is very difficult to see why we've put the idea into Sams head. I can see why we'd let him go once the idea was there, but even then we are being VERY generous given he was contracted and the seeming donut we have received in return for letting him go.

 

[flinchfree]

Excellent, so you throw an insult at me and then are unable to answer a simple question.

Oh good lord.
You didn't read anything I wrote, did you?

 

[WillowSF]

It makes no sense. We gave one of our all time greatest, who is clearly still at the top of his game, away for nothing. People have very short memories... we were a joke for a long time and Sam was one of the key reasons the club rose again to the top. For that reason alone he's on the untouchable list.

You can't honestly tell me Sam Mitchell is not going to have 17 other clubs pursue him for an assistant coaching position once he finishes his playing career. Come on, his future was already in place.

The brand damage to Hawthorn can't be understated. Clarkson and co just lost a lot of goodwill and in the end may fasten his own exit as coach from the club. Honestly, pay the guy whatever he needs just for him to stay a Hawk.

If salary cap was an issue, and we are truly in rebuild mode, why bother paying a c grade key position player Vickery 500K a year? The mind boggles... Simply defies logic. It's actually depressing.

 

[Arc1]

How on earth did we get back to Kennedy and McGlynn again?! Neither of them was going to get a game. McGlynn specifically went to Sydney to look after his career because Hawthorn couldn't guarantee him getting playing time. So they both ended up going OK? Who cares. Our guys went better. By a gigantic margin, too. Threepeat vs. 1 flag vs. none. Move on, people.

 

[hawkgal02]

After processing the information from Wright's 1:30pm presser, I'm more confused than ever.
From the information revealed at the presser:
- We are refusing to trade Lewis because he is contracted and required, even if he wants to go, we'll not let him.
- We don't have any other trades planned besides JOM.
- We don't have the JOM deal done, and it will not be done until next week at the earliest (and he didn't look massively optimistic to be honest).
- We don't have a cap space issue, and that is not why Sam left.
- We consider ourselves contenders for the flag in 2017.
- Wright doesn't want to use the word rebuild, and prefers to see us as improving our list, but concedes moving Sam for pick 88 is not improving our list.

Information we knew already
- Sam was contracted for another year.
- Sam didn't bring up the idea of being traded to WC, Clarko did. Sam was considering a coaching job there after his career was over.
- Sam just won our B&F and was clearly our best player for the year.

When joining all that information together I don't understand the answers to these questions:
- Why did we trade our best player who was still contracted and we could have forced to stay when we were happy to force Lewis to stay?
- Why did we raise the idea of him leaving when we didn't need the cap space for JOM, and are not considering any other trades?
- Why would we trade out a player of that quality when we are contending for a flag next year?

If Sam had raised this idea himself, and we'd let him go, then I can see the point. He's given damn good service, and deserves to get what he wants. But it was us that put this in front of him. Sure it is good for him, but the club officials also need to look after the club, and putting ideas like this into the minds of their contracted players seems to have tilted a little too far in the direction of the player versus the club. If we have no more trades planned we have effectively zero benefit, if we are bringing in a big fish next year, then Sam could have moved at the end of next year. Apparently we can't front end a PSD contract, and any contract would have to be at least 2 years, so we can't offer our (guessed) 1.2M cap space in a 1 year contract , and can't front end a 2 year PSD offer, as the matching only needs to match total value.

So what is the club getting out of it? They free up some development time for new players, but if we are in contention next year, and as expected we lose a bunch of 4 time premier players at the end of next year, why can't we put off that development for 1 year in the hope of another flag in 2017?

I find the entire thing baffling. It seems like no matter how hard you look, it is very difficult to see why we've put the idea into Sams head. I can see why we'd let him go once the idea was there, but even then we are being VERY generous given he was contracted and the seeming donut we have received in return for letting him go.

I don't understand the point of having that presser. We got nothing out of other than new questions about Lewis. I don't feel any better or happier after that.
Don't just reply to every question with "you'll have to ask so and so" or "we don't know at this time". Either answer the questions or just put out a statement

Now i read we have somehow got pick 10?? What the actual f**k?

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Another thing that has me a bit mystified is why Sam, with his young family, would be so keen to go to WA. I stand to be corrected but I'm pretty sure Sam and His wife are both from Melbourne. Usually when players have young families they are keen to stay near extended family or return to their city of origin for the same reason, not move as far away as you can get. On the one hand people are citing family reasons for Sam wanting to make the move this year (as his twins will start prep in 2017) but why would he been wanting to move to WA anyway? Yes, he is friends with Simpson but as I heard him say on the radio this afternoon he has many links with other coaches (Beveridge, Hardwick etc.) and he would no doubt be sought after at any club so why the move to WA?

 

[hk89]

I don't understand the point of having that presser. We got nothing out of other than new questions about Lewis. I don't feel any better or happier after that.
Don't just reply to every question with "you'll have to ask so and so" or "we don't know at this time". Either answer the questions or just put out a statement

It might be the case that there are issues they simply discuss in public, but when our best player leaves I don't think it is unreasonable to ask questions, and while some may be happy to run with a 'in the club I trust' mentality, when you lose a player like Sam for pick 88 I think the fans deserve as much detail as possible, and right now I simply can't understand what drove the thing, especially the part where it was initially the club's idea, not his. The only thing that I can hold on to is that Mitchell seems genuinely happy.

Now i read we have somehow got pick 10?? What the actual f**k?

Pick 10 is positive news. Apparently GC were focusing on our pick 14 and a player as part of the trade, so when 14 went on TOM, it had stalled JOM discussions. Now they can get things moving quickly on Monday, hopefully by centering a deal around pick 10 (or a deal with a third party where they get pick 10 and GC gets their player, which is perhaps more likely). We've give up our first round next year for it, but if we do use it for JOM and don't lose much else on top, then I think its a good deal.

 

[hk89]

How on earth did we get back to Kennedy and McGlynn again?! Neither of them was going to get a game.

In regards to Kennedy, that is a Myth (popularised by the Kennedy clan after he left). FFS, he played the last 9 games of the year in 2009 before he left. You could argue we were giving him one last chance (which is exactly what his dad has claimed), but I very much doubt that. We were pushing hard to avoid a humiliating finals miss, and needed out best team on the park each week to try to make it - falling 1 game short. I doubt we had time for experiments with players we didn't think were best 22, especially 9 consecutive games worth.

 

[muff73]

Yep, and you can add if Kennedy was a Hawk in 2012 we would have four in a row.

See I said that to a mate and he raised a valid point that I shouldn't assume we'd have 4 in a row as he argued the pain of losing 2012 which we should've won is what spurred us to 3 in a row. Who knows?

If we kick straight and take our chances that game, then Kennedy being there is irrelevant.

Anyway, I'm not saying I'm happy that we let Kennedy go. Just saying we did ok after we did and sorry but Premierships do count. That's all that counts. Ask any Brownlow medalist that never won one if they'd trade that for a premiership and you'll get the same answer every time. And yes, he has one. Stratton who we picked up with the draft pick we got for him, has 3. Who's happier?

Just my opinion, so all good, you're 100% entitled to yours too and people missing that a bit in this thread

 

[LurkingHawk]

Now i read we have somehow got pick 10?? What the actual f**k?

Pick 10 is positive news. Apparently GC were focusing on our pick 14 and a player as part of the trade, so when 14 went on TOM, it had stalled JOM discussions. Now they can get things moving quickly on Monday, hopefully by centering a deal around pick 10 (or a deal with a third party where they get pick 10 and GC gets their player, which is perhaps more likely). We've give up our first round next year for it, but if we do use it for JOM and don't lose much else on top, then I think its a good deal.

Total speculation on my part, but what if the logic is about Faigs swapping Tom Rockliff for pick 10 and then we swap Tom and steak knives for Jaeger?

 

[Hawkthorn33]

Yeah, and we got Stratten and Suckling from those deals.

Not trying to argue with you on it as it's not invalid what you're saying but we moved on pretty ok post Kennedy and will again.

Getting Stratts and Suckling is pretty good return now that you put it that way.

Wish we of pushed harder then pick 88 for Mitchell now you mentioned those gems that we picked up late in the draft (I know suckling was a rookie).

Also you're right, we will move on and continue to be successful as a club in the long term

 

[hk89]

Total speculation on my part, but what if the logic is about Faigs swapping Tom Rockliff for pick 10 and then we swap Tom and steak knives for Jaeger?

Yes, there are lots of players that might move for pick 10, and moving players already in QLD is probably easier than moving someone from down south.

 

[The A Team Van]

I'm still struggling to digest this. I would have thought this was the last thing that would happen in trade week and it's happened. It just feels hollow, and after 3 in a row, I don't really give a shit about fast-tracking back to contention. I'd prefer if they gave the legends that provided the greatest team sporting achievement I've seen in my lifetime to get a proper send off.

Last time I felt like this was when the Rockets traded Dream to Toronto, and they haven't really gotten back to contention since. You just don't mess with the legacy of a club legend!

 

[vanders]

More chance of Essendon winning the flag in 2017 than Mitch topping up his super at WCE.

Welp

 

[MistyAvalon]

Um. I know it was a trade, but it sounds like we didn't want him anymore... Griz any chance of changing the thread title. To something more respectful... Sam move to Weagles or similar

 

[LuckyHawk]

In regards to Kennedy, that is a Myth (popularised by the Kennedy clan after he left). FFS, he played the last 9 games of the year in 2009 before he left. You could argue we were giving him one last chance (which is exactly what his dad has claimed), but I very much doubt that. We were pushing hard to avoid a humiliating finals miss, and needed out best team on the park each week to try to make it - falling 1 game short. I doubt we had time for experiments with players we didn't think were best 22, especially 9 consecutive games worth.

History tells us now that trading Kennedy was in fact a mistake, no grey area here.

 

[striker]

So it's been confirmed that we're paying some of his salary. Had to pay for them to take this spud off our hands.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

How did a Sam Mitchell gets traded for a pittance thread degenerate into endless waffling about American basketball ?

Just askin' ...

 

[StillAtLarge]

Um. I know it was a trade, but it sounds like we didn't want him anymore... Griz any chance of changing the thread title. To something more respectful... Sam move to Weagles or similar

Ah...not sure how to break this to you but if we wanted him this trade (and thread) wouldn't exist. It must've been pretty humiliating for sam

 

[vanders]

Ah...not sure how to break this to you but if we wanted him this trade (and thread) wouldn't exist. It must've been pretty humiliating for sam

He sounded pretty excited about it to me

 

[Arc1]

In regards to Kennedy, that is a Myth (popularised by the Kennedy clan after he left). FFS, he played the last 9 games of the year in 2009 before he left. You could argue we were giving him one last chance (which is exactly what his dad has claimed), but I very much doubt that. We were pushing hard to avoid a humiliating finals miss, and needed out best team on the park each week to try to make it - falling 1 game short. I doubt we had time for experiments with players we didn't think were best 22, especially 9 consecutive games worth.

Fair enough, on Kennedy I'm with the great unwashed on the point, I'll happily admit. You provoked me to go review the match records though...!

On that last set of games - correct, we were pushing not to miss the finals off the back of the '08 flag. But we did a pretty dreadful job of it, going 3-7 over the final 10 games. Looking at them (and this is just going off the stats, which never tell you the whole story), it seems to me that Kennedy started off OK and then towards the end had some good games.

TBH, that's about how I remember it playing out - at the time I was definitely more bothered by McGlynn going, because he'd had a couple of terrific games, I thought he was going to be a great long-term midfield/small forward option for us, and I was a bit biased due to a remote personal connection.

Kennedy, I remember him being promising over that period, but not dominating. Maybe it was because it's all lost in the fog of our terrible season, and watching bizarre sh!t like Hodge have to do ruckwork. Mainly when the trade went through, I was just generally annoyed that we'd given up two good players, but I didn't see him as overtaking the Hodge-Mitchell-Lewis-Sewell axis of awesome anytime soon. And it was nothing even close to the feeling when we lost Buddy, for example.

Looking at those games in terms purely of possessions -

WCE (A): 20 point loss. Top ball-winners Mitchell, Sewell, Hodge, Bateman, Lewis. McGlynn got quite a few. JPK d/n play.
WB (A): For some reason I can't see the score in this game no matter how hard I squint. I just have this weird vision of our own team being booed off the park at half time. Nonetheless, top ball-winners Sewell, Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Bateman. JPK did OK, McGlynn didn't.
NM (H - Aurora): 9 point win. Top ball-winners Sewell, Mitchell, Hodge, Franklin, Lewis. McGlynn did OK, JPK didn't.
COLL (H): 45 point win. Top ball-winners Hodge, Lewis, Bateman, Mitchell, Sewell. JPK went OK - though 19/21 possessions were HB; wonder if he was playing in-and-under that day? McGlynn went OK.
GEEL (A - MCG): 1 point loss (OF COURSE... FFS). Mitchell, Sewell, Guerra, Lewis, Bateman. JPK and McGlynn also went OK. Hodge didn't.
PORT (A): 18 point loss. Mitchell, Birchall, Bateman, Brown, Guerra. McGlynn went well, JPK picked up 15 and kicked a goal.
STK (H): 25 point loss. Mitchell, Lewis, JPK, Tuck, Hodge. McGlynn got 21 touches and kicked 2 goals.
ADE (H): 27 point loss. McGlynn, Lewis, Mitchell, Gilham, JPK. McGlynn 38 touches and a goal!
RICH (A-MCG): 42 point win. Mitchell, Hodge, Bateman, Sewell, Birchall. JPK was next, and kicked 2 goals. McGlynn went OK with 17 touches and 2 goals.
ESS (H): 17 point loss. Mitchell, Bateman, Osborne, Birchall, Lewis. JPK and McGlynn were OK and each kicked a goal. (I believe this was the game where Sewell was KO'd by the cowardly knob-end who promptly retired in disgrace and now spends his time carping about our team in the media; this helps explain why he only had 11 touches, and gives me an opportunity to whine).

You can't draw conclusions based on stats, but it at least supports the impression that JPK was at best working his way into the midfield, and up against some guys like Mitchell who were much more important to us.

Just topically, I also notice that Mitchell was in the top 5 possession winners there, every game, 10 games in a row. Like usual. Also top 5 in the two games prior. Statistically one of his best years despite the turd of an outcome...

Anyway, I've successfully wasted half an hour.

 

[wallyt99]

So it's been confirmed that we're paying some of his salary. Had to pay for them to take this spud off our hands.

Apparently West Coast threw in a pair of old footy boots and half a pack of Winnie Blues that supposedly belonged to Peter Sumich.... So not all bad news.