Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[cryptor]

Brisbane post Lethal, EFC post Sheedy, Hafey/tigers, Smith/Go Dees - history suggests we may be in trouble.

Sammy was key to getting rid of Clarkson. The task is in front of him.

A premiership coach alone is hard to find, and legendary coaches are even rarer than that. So to look at history at the handful of legendary coaches that have existed, it's unlikely to turn up many instances where the following coach was a premiership winning one. But if we were to look at every instance throughout history where a club has gone from a non-premiership winning coach to another non-premiership winning coach there would be a huge amount (Carlton alone in the past two decades...). Most premiership and legendary coaches would have followed on from non-premiership winning coaches themselves.

Maybe there is something endemic to clubs that have just lost a legendary coach that might be in play here. It's still early days but things look good so far. But maybe if there are cracks they will show once the season starts.

 

[Luv_our_club]

That was just my experience and like I said, I haven't read his book. I'm genuinely keen to hear what's got you concerned.

We've been crying out for some significant change for a while (it didn't have to be Clarko going, it could have just been him changing things more) and now we've got it in the form of Sam Mitchell taking over. I'm conscious of the fact that the club has been building him up in its own media ever since he took over Box Hill. I wouldn't go so far as to call it propaganda but it's certainly had the influence of getting the fanbase excited for what he'll bring.

Cryptor,

Here are some thing I haven't liked (off the top of my head)

1, Sam Mitchell participating in the coup led by Jeff Kennett..... That is just always going to be there for me.

2. Sam being unable to talk META.... Feelings get him uncomfortable. I think he has a mathematical mind, with the cliche being he lacks inter personal skills. I think the latter is not true, but I also think he hates the "vibe" stuff. Is it a big change from Clarkson who was all about feelings... the way Clarkson would bring Jeans and Kennedy back to the club, the Kokoda trips, etc. I think this stuff bores Sam.

3, Sam's biography lacks for a little self-awareness. My newphew reads it as a "self-help" book. It's full of Sam's tips on resilience. It is just a bit urggggggHHH! If Sam has overcome hardship worthy of a Hollywood movie then I can't see it.

4. Sam has a rep for not speaking to supporters (not giving them much time). Fair enough. But a few months after participating in a coup against Clarkson we see Sam on a Business Leadership Podcast where he so clearly spends 60 mintues showing everyone how ******* very very clever he is, how supper super smart he is. I am not anti-smart... but I am "team first". Hawthorn coaches have all been hayseed geniuses... Kennedy, Jeans, Clarkson would all pretend their ("they are") dumb until they have sold you a bridge. The Business Leadership Podcast really rubbed me the wrong way.

5. Sam is gooofy.. a dork... we know this. I think socially he still doesn't know who he is (like most people). The freaks like Jeans, Kennedy, Clarkson just knew who they were. In dog language, Sam isn't alpha socially.


We would need to sit down in front of a video to really discuss all this.


Perhaps I am not going to give Sam any breaks, because look what they did to Clarko.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Brisbane post Lethal, EFC post Sheedy, Hafey/tigers, Smith/Go Dees - history suggests we may be in trouble.

Sammy was key to getting rid of Clarkson. The task is in front of him.

The unanimous footy dept and board was key to getting rid of Clarkson.

 

[Slainte]

The unanimous footy dept and board was key to getting rid of Clarkson.

McEvoy was also part of it.

 

[Slainte]

Cryptor,

Here are some thing I haven't liked (off the top of my head)

1, Sam Mitchell participating in the coup led by Jeff Kennett..... That is just always going to be there for me.

2. Sam being unable to talk META.... Feelings get him uncomfortable. I think he has a mathematical mind, with the cliche being he lacks inter personal skills. I think the latter is not true, but I also think he hates the "vibe" stuff. Is it a big change from Clarkson who was all about feelings... the way Clarkson would bring Jeans and Kennedy back to the club, the Kokoda trips, etc. I think this stuff bores Sam.

3, Sam's biography lacks for a little self-awareness. My newphew reads it as a "self-help" book. It's full of Sam's tips on resilience. It is just a bit urggggggHHH! If Sam has overcome hardship worthy of a Hollywood movie then I can't see it.

4. Sam has a rep for not speaking to supporters (not giving them much time). Fair enough. But a few months after participating in a coup against Clarkson we see Sam on a Business Leadership Podcast where he so clearly spends 60 mintues showing everyone how ******* very very clever he is, how supper super smart he is. I am not anti-smart... but I am "team first". Hawthorn coaches have all been hayseed geniuses... Kennedy, Jeans, Clarkson would all pretend their ("they are") dumb until they have sold you a bridge. The Business Leadership Podcast really rubbed me the wrong way.

5. Sam is gooofy.. a dork... we know this. I think socially he still doesn't know who he is (like most people). The freaks like Jeans, Kennedy, Clarkson just knew who they were. In dog language, Sam isn't alpha socially.


We would need to sit down in front of a video to really discuss all this.


Perhaps I am not going to give Sam any breaks, because look what they did to Clarko.

I think you have probably correctly identified some of his weaknesses/limitations. However, I don't think you are properly crediting his strengths. I think that he is right that the priority is to hone and utilise the strengths rather than try to remedy the weaknesses. This applies to him as much to the players. He will need to work on his weaknesses but I think he can do that - at least to the extent that they don't cause too much damage.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Cryptor,

Here are some thing I haven't liked (off the top of my head)

1, Sam Mitchell participating in the coup led by Jeff Kennett..... That is just always going to be there for me.

2. Sam being unable to talk META.... Feelings get him uncomfortable. I think he has a mathematical mind, with the cliche being he lacks inter personal skills. I think the latter is not true, but I also think he hates the "vibe" stuff. Is it a big change from Clarkson who was all about feelings... the way Clarkson would bring Jeans and Kennedy back to the club, the Kokoda trips, etc. I think this stuff bores Sam.

3, Sam's biography lacks for a little self-awareness. My newphew reads it as a "self-help" book. It's full of Sam's tips on resilience. It is just a bit urggggggHHH! If Sam has overcome hardship worthy of a Hollywood movie then I can't see it.

4. Sam has a rep for not speaking to supporters (not giving them much time). Fair enough. But a few months after participating in a coup against Clarkson we see Sam on a Business Leadership Podcast where he so clearly spends 60 mintues showing everyone how ******* very very clever he is, how supper super smart he is. I am not anti-smart... but I am "team first". Hawthorn coaches have all been hayseed geniuses... Kennedy, Jeans, Clarkson would all pretend their ("they are") dumb until they have sold you a bridge. The Business Leadership Podcast really rubbed me the wrong way.

5. Sam is gooofy.. a dork... we know this. I think socially he still doesn't know who he is (like most people). The freaks like Jeans, Kennedy, Clarkson just knew who they were. In dog language, Sam isn't alpha socially.


We would need to sit down in front of a video to really discuss all this.


Perhaps I am not going to give Sam any breaks, because look what they did to Clarko.

I stopped reading after point 1.

Sam Mitchell did not participate in a coup.

The fact you’d even write such a stupid comment is bewildering.

The Hawthorn football club board and football dept voted unanimously to not renew his contract, no doubt on the back of his failed list strategy, our onfield form, the reluctance to embrace the rebuild until it was forced upon us and the hefty salary in the middle of a global pandemic while bouncing around the bottom 2.

This is not a coup in any way or shape.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

McEvoy was also part of it.

The playing group made it known that they didn’t want to waste 12 months of their career in a “handover”. Driven strongly by a number of the younger crew who were fans of what was happening at Box Hill.
I guess they just wanted to rip the band aid off, and McEvoy was the one to voice this concern, despite being a Clarkson loyalist.

 

[flinchfree]

Dermott Brereton always used to say... "there are a lot of myths in football".

Jeans told Dermot on his death bed.... "You were the most courageous of all"......


So many Mitchell "narratives" came out when Jeff was ousting Clarkson and Mitchell was part of the coup.


1, Collins brought in Bramble.

2. Nash played midfield at Box Hill because Box Hill had NO OTHER midfield options. If Sam wanted Nash as a mid why wait until they lost every other mid player HALF WAY through the season. It wasn't a GENIUS PLAN. Perhaps credit to Clarkson for keeping Nash on the list for 5 years.


3. The often repeated idea that Box Hill had some fast, attacking, game style that the senior team is crying out for is just childish. Apples and Oranges.

4. Kozi moving forward was just another Hail Mary.... has more to do with the Pies new coach.



Sam is Sam. What he brings to the club is Sam. He is Sam. He is Sam. No runs on the board. He ain't done sh*t but undermine and stab his senior mentor in the back. That's it. Sam is Sam.


All those OTHER narratives came from apologists for Jeff knifing Clarkson.

Yeh, I knew after your earlier footsteps treading softly down the path of trying to undermine Sam it was prudent to wait....
Because people of poor character and judgement just can't help themselves but eventually spew their truth. Kinda like those who hate Jews, they'll talk in vague stereotypes to test the waters but given time what leaks out are the insidious questioning about running the world and being banking overlords of the misbegotten. But you never have to wait long, it's like the bile needs to find it's way to the surface with such incessant need and force no gag reflex in the world can hold it back.
Your colors have been clear since day one. You are no more a Hawthorn person than Jim Hird, you'll stick your poison pen in at the earliest convenience to further some egotistical need to illuminate the 'Way'.
You're an idolator at the altar of Al Clarkson, nothing more. You'd know nothing of what the great coaches at Hawthorn are about, because they were men of quality, cut from proper cloth.
You don't deserve Hawthorn.

 

[The hands of stone]

Cryptor,

Here are some thing I haven't liked (off the top of my head)

1, Sam Mitchell participating in the coup led by Jeff Kennett..... That is just always going to be there for me.

2. Sam being unable to talk META.... Feelings get him uncomfortable. I think he has a mathematical mind, with the cliche being he lacks inter personal skills. I think the latter is not true, but I also think he hates the "vibe" stuff. Is it a big change from Clarkson who was all about feelings... the way Clarkson would bring Jeans and Kennedy back to the club, the Kokoda trips, etc. I think this stuff bores Sam.

3, Sam's biography lacks for a little self-awareness. My newphew reads it as a "self-help" book. It's full of Sam's tips on resilience. It is just a bit urggggggHHH! If Sam has overcome hardship worthy of a Hollywood movie then I can't see it.

4. Sam has a rep for not speaking to supporters (not giving them much time). Fair enough. But a few months after participating in a coup against Clarkson we see Sam on a Business Leadership Podcast where he so clearly spends 60 mintues showing everyone how ******* very very clever he is, how supper super smart he is. I am not anti-smart... but I am "team first". Hawthorn coaches have all been hayseed geniuses... Kennedy, Jeans, Clarkson would all pretend their ("they are") dumb until they have sold you a bridge. The Business Leadership Podcast really rubbed me the wrong way.

5. Sam is gooofy.. a dork... we know this. I think socially he still doesn't know who he is (like most people). The freaks like Jeans, Kennedy, Clarkson just knew who they were. In dog language, Sam isn't alpha socially.


We would need to sit down in front of a video to really discuss all this.


Perhaps I am not going to give Sam any breaks, because look what they did to Clarko.

I think your over complicating it tbh. Coaching comes in many guises, skills and ability . But there isnt a magic formula to it.
Sam is pretty smart . I think his assistants will be covering his weaker areas for him .

I dont agree with point 1 at all and your using a book as a point of reference for coaching ability etc . Maybe you just didnt like the book ?

Clarko was and is a legend . But he was cooked. I thought before last season he had another contract in him but his time was up . Best move for us and him .
If we rolled him out again we would have seen the same stuff 2020 and 2021 bought us .

I think its time to back him in , rather than pot him on a forum whether you meant to or not.

 

[Tony3163]

Most of those coaches who took over those legacies had to start the rebuild however - Mitchell is inheriting a list that doesn’t require much more turnover and instead is ready to be built as he likes.

This is a fair summation. imo

 

[JZedd]

Cryptor,

Here are some thing I haven't liked (off the top of my head)

1, Sam Mitchell participating in the coup led by Jeff Kennett..... That is just always going to be there for me.

2. Sam being unable to talk META.... Feelings get him uncomfortable. I think he has a mathematical mind, with the cliche being he lacks inter personal skills. I think the latter is not true, but I also think he hates the "vibe" stuff. Is it a big change from Clarkson who was all about feelings... the way Clarkson would bring Jeans and Kennedy back to the club, the Kokoda trips, etc. I think this stuff bores Sam.

3, Sam's biography lacks for a little self-awareness. My newphew reads it as a "self-help" book. It's full of Sam's tips on resilience. It is just a bit urggggggHHH! If Sam has overcome hardship worthy of a Hollywood movie then I can't see it.

4. Sam has a rep for not speaking to supporters (not giving them much time). Fair enough. But a few months after participating in a coup against Clarkson we see Sam on a Business Leadership Podcast where he so clearly spends 60 mintues showing everyone how ******* very very clever he is, how supper super smart he is. I am not anti-smart... but I am "team first". Hawthorn coaches have all been hayseed geniuses... Kennedy, Jeans, Clarkson would all pretend their ("they are") dumb until they have sold you a bridge. The Business Leadership Podcast really rubbed me the wrong way.

5. Sam is gooofy.. a dork... we know this. I think socially he still doesn't know who he is (like most people). The freaks like Jeans, Kennedy, Clarkson just knew who they were. In dog language, Sam isn't alpha socially.


We would need to sit down in front of a video to really discuss all this.


Perhaps I am not going to give Sam any breaks, because look what they did to Clarko.

We ALL love Clarko and I'll always feel grateful for the fantastic memories.
But he rolled the dice, trading picks for established players.

Supporters are much more patient with rebuilds, especially after sustained success.

Essentially Clarkson directed the blow torch onto himself. Sam had nothing to do with this. It wasn't a secret that Sam wanted to coach.

The club comes first. Sammy has also given his ALL for our great club too. So he deserves our loyalty and respect.

Listening to the feedback from players they're 100% behind him, including the more senior guys.

 

[Slainte]

Yeh, I knew after your earlier footsteps treading softly down the path of trying to undermine Sam it was prudent to wait....
Because people of poor character and judgement just can't help themselves but eventually spew their truth. Kinda like those who hate Jews, they'll talk in vague stereotypes to test the waters but given time what leaks out are the insidious questioning about running the world and being banking overlords of the misbegotten. But you never have to wait long, it's like the bile needs to find it's way to the surface with such incessant need and force no gag reflex in the world can hold it back.
Your colors have been clear since day one. You are no more a Hawthorn person than Jim Hird, you'll stick your poison pen in at the earliest convenience to further some egotistical need to illuminate the 'Way'.
You're an idolator at the alter of Al Clarkson, nothing more. You'd know nothing of what the great coaches at Hawthorn are about, because they were men of quality, cut from proper cloth.
You don't deserve Hawthorn.

OTT IMO. LoC is entitled to her (if I have the gender right) opinion and I think she makes some reasonable points. We have something of a pile on here.

 

[JaegarTime]

I think from memory it was Mitchell who saw him training with the forwards and asked him what he was doing, and asked why he wasn't training with the midfielders. Nash replied that he didn't know why he wasn't.

It was me that reported this as it was right in front of me at training.
This is correct, Sam was asking why he wasn’t training with the mids and saying he should be training where he has shown most development. Nash said ‘I don’t know, they’re not giving me a shot’.

This decision was 100% driven by Mitchell

 

[JaegarTime]

I

No.... but Sam is Sam.

We get Sam.

We get Sam.

Zero runs on the board.

You forgett that Jeff created a coup at the club that sent the players against each other.

Surely you can't hang your hat on such a simple argument as the current players compliment the current coach

Im confused… is he Sam tho?

 

[cryptor]

Cryptor,

Here are some thing I haven't liked (off the top of my head)

1, Sam Mitchell participating in the coup led by Jeff Kennett..... That is just always going to be there for me.

2. Sam being unable to talk META.... Feelings get him uncomfortable. I think he has a mathematical mind, with the cliche being he lacks inter personal skills. I think the latter is not true, but I also think he hates the "vibe" stuff. Is it a big change from Clarkson who was all about feelings... the way Clarkson would bring Jeans and Kennedy back to the club, the Kokoda trips, etc. I think this stuff bores Sam.

3, Sam's biography lacks for a little self-awareness. My newphew reads it as a "self-help" book. It's full of Sam's tips on resilience. It is just a bit urggggggHHH! If Sam has overcome hardship worthy of a Hollywood movie then I can't see it.

4. Sam has a rep for not speaking to supporters (not giving them much time). Fair enough. But a few months after participating in a coup against Clarkson we see Sam on a Business Leadership Podcast where he so clearly spends 60 mintues showing everyone how ******* very very clever he is, how supper super smart he is. I am not anti-smart... but I am "team first". Hawthorn coaches have all been hayseed geniuses... Kennedy, Jeans, Clarkson would all pretend their ("they are") dumb until they have sold you a bridge. The Business Leadership Podcast really rubbed me the wrong way.

5. Sam is gooofy.. a dork... we know this. I think socially he still doesn't know who he is (like most people). The freaks like Jeans, Kennedy, Clarkson just knew who they were. In dog language, Sam isn't alpha socially.


We would need to sit down in front of a video to really discuss all this.


Perhaps I am not going to give Sam any breaks, because look what they did to Clarko.

Apart from point 1, which is really just unfounded speculation, the rest mostly reads that he is different from Clarko. And that is mostly just in the way Clarko was at the end - which was remarkably different to how he was years ago, particularly at the start. Clarko was an angry little nut at the start. I recall stories from track watchers here who were effectively chased away from training sessions.

Over the years Clarko became noticeably softer towards players (for better or worse is a different argument) and perception seemed to change from him being the coach that would strip paint off walls (or go patch them up) to one who would go put his arm around a player who had played a stinker. Clarko was also a story teller and got players to buy into shared ideas through emotion. But I think in the end he became a bit too philosophical for some players.

Mitchell might not be the type to make the team hike a mountain and reflect on what it is to exist at the peak. But he's clearly been making personal investments in the players to help them become the best players they can be, as well as ensuring that both training and the way the team plays (based on BHH) is "fun". Whether or not training or playing is fun isn't a consideration for a senior coach who doesn't appreciate player feelings and morale. The player testimonies delivered with big grins are proof enough of this I think.

Anyway, I hope you're able to come around to Sam Mitchell. He may not end up being the great success we hope, but I sincerely believe it's not as dire as you're currently feeling.

 

[Brishawk]

It was me that reported this as it was right in front of me at training.
This is correct, Sam was asking why he wasn’t training with the mids and saying he should be training where he has shown most development. Nash said ‘I don’t know, they’re not giving me a shot’.

This decision was 100% driven by Mitchell

You would have thought Sam, as development coach, would have had a conversation with Clarko or the line coach about this prior to the training session. It is a very confusing incident for a number of reasons. Communication could not have been to great last year for that to happen.

 

[Dipper]

I

Im confused… is he Sam tho?

Play it again.

Sent from my SM-A326B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

... But if we were to look at every instance throughout history ...

A complete waste of time and entirely irrelevant to my point you quoted.

Burn the history books, that is where the issue resides.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

... Sam Mitchell did not participate in a coup....

Nonsense. Sam is just as culpable as the board.

This populous crap is sooo annoying.

FWIW I would have sacked Clarkson earlier.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Nonsense. Sam is just as culpable as the board.

This populous crap is sooo annoying.

"cupalpable". For daring to coach the team he was charged with coaching, he's to blame for the club arriving at the decision to not renew Clarkson? What a load of rubbish.

You might need to look up the definition of a coup too, while you're at it.

Not having your contract renewed is far from it.

 

[Turly]

Morbid question: What do people think Sam Mitchell's downfall will be IF he fails?

What constitutes a fail though? If he doesn't win 5 of the next 6 premierships then it's a fail and I will microwave my membership. (Orange) (Orange)

 

[Turly]

Is it like the Pendlebury basketball background thing?

I think it's become a bit of a joke tbh. If Pendles chose the path of basketball he'd struggle getting a gig in the NBL.

Wouldn't even bother mentioning the NBA because he'd get his pants pulled down.

 

[TylerDurden]

Yeh, I knew after your earlier footsteps treading softly down the path of trying to undermine Sam it was prudent to wait....
Because people of poor character and judgement just can't help themselves but eventually spew their truth. Kinda like those who hate Jews, they'll talk in vague stereotypes to test the waters but given time what leaks out are the insidious questioning about running the world and being banking overlords of the misbegotten. But you never have to wait long, it's like the bile needs to find it's way to the surface with such incessant need and force no gag reflex in the world can hold it back.
Your colors have been clear since day one. You are no more a Hawthorn person than Jim Hird, you'll stick your poison pen in at the earliest convenience to further some egotistical need to illuminate the 'Way'.
You're an idolator at the alter of Al Clarkson, nothing more. You'd know nothing of what the great coaches at Hawthorn are about, because they were men of quality, cut from proper cloth.
You don't deserve Hawthorn.

The Hird call

 

[CHUBBSS]

Cryptor,

Here are some thing I haven't liked (off the top of my head)

1, Sam Mitchell participating in the coup led by Jeff Kennett..... That is just always going to be there for me.

2. Sam being unable to talk META.... Feelings get him uncomfortable. I think he has a mathematical mind, with the cliche being he lacks inter personal skills. I think the latter is not true, but I also think he hates the "vibe" stuff. Is it a big change from Clarkson who was all about feelings... the way Clarkson would bring Jeans and Kennedy back to the club, the Kokoda trips, etc. I think this stuff bores Sam.

3, Sam's biography lacks for a little self-awareness. My newphew reads it as a "self-help" book. It's full of Sam's tips on resilience. It is just a bit urggggggHHH! If Sam has overcome hardship worthy of a Hollywood movie then I can't see it.

4. Sam has a rep for not speaking to supporters (not giving them much time). Fair enough. But a few months after participating in a coup against Clarkson we see Sam on a Business Leadership Podcast where he so clearly spends 60 mintues showing everyone how ******* very very clever he is, how supper super smart he is. I am not anti-smart... but I am "team first". Hawthorn coaches have all been hayseed geniuses... Kennedy, Jeans, Clarkson would all pretend their ("they are") dumb until they have sold you a bridge. The Business Leadership Podcast really rubbed me the wrong way.

5. Sam is gooofy.. a dork... we know this. I think socially he still doesn't know who he is (like most people). The freaks like Jeans, Kennedy, Clarkson just knew who they were. In dog language, Sam isn't alpha socially.


We would need to sit down in front of a video to really discuss all this.


Perhaps I am not going to give Sam any breaks, because look what they did to Clarko.

This is genuine nonsense

 

[cryptor]

A complete waste of time and entirely irrelevant to my point you quoted.

Burn the history books, that is where the issue resides.

I'm not suggesting to literally look. I can tell you straight up that it is the case.

Essentially you're pointing to a handful of instances where something incredibly rare (having a legendary coach who wins multiple premierships) is followed by something very common (a coach who doesn't win a premiership in their tenure) and assuming the events are connected when it's most likely just coming down to probability (ie. common things will happen more often than rare ones).

Now I did say in the last paragraph of my post that it's possible there could be something about clubs that have just lost a legendary coach that might essentially set the new coach up for failure, but currently that doesn't seem to be the case as pretty much all signs indicate the club is thriving. We'll know more once the season starts I'm sure.