Scientists discover new ligament in knee

[Mr Smiff]

Hmmmmm.....knee has always been.......science is slow. Yoda.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Dr James Andrews who does all the big guns in the NFL or Julian Feller who does pretty much all the AFL guys in Melbourne must be doing alright for themselves. But the current technique means the rehab just can't be rushed.

LARS is certainly a step forward if the artificial ligament can be made as or more reliable as the hamstring graft.

Baddley who was the knee guy in Darwin for many years (and may still even be) had a house on Casuarina Drive looking out to sea, that was known locally as "Arthroscopy House"

 

[JapanFootball]

Adrian Peterson....

It would help if AFL players were allowed to wear giant braces on their knees. People who have had reconstructions would be back playing months earlier and the instability would be virtually non existent. The way the braces are these days I don't think they pose a massive risk to other people. The AFL should look to change the rules on them.

 

[Chunderboy]

As someone who is currently studying sport science and has a subject on lower limb anatomy this semester, this news is crazy! As a couple people are saying you would expect these people to know every bone/muscle/ligament/tendon in the body. There will be variation from person to person, like there are some muscles that are missing or only present in 5% of people, but to actually have a new ligament that in all the years that people have been studying the human body that at no point has someone gone "oh wait, what's that there?"

Break-throughs in how these muscles work, how best to train to them or repair them will be constantly evolving as new technology becomes available but to find a new ligament is so strange. I would have thought that knowing the basic anatomy of the body would have been one of the more easily comprehensively covered topics

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Dunno, are knee ligament injuries a new thing?

No. It was there ALL along.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

cam mooney begs to differ.

And at times our very own Richo.

 

[Smokeyr67]

I'm struggling with the fact that cadavers are dissected daily, have been since 300 bc, and they're just finding a new bit?

 

[seysearles]

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[The Swans Blog]

well, you are a chick

I'm a guy who knows how to work a girls... 'engine' so to speak - keep it well tuned and running.

 

[theflea]

It doesn't say where this new ligament actually is. Does anyone know?

 

[Smokeyr67]

I'm a guy who knows how to work a girls... 'engine' so to speak - keep it well tuned and running.

And a genius who can catch the obvious pun

 

[Furn2]

us scientist are worse than musicians

we steal all our shit.

 

[Chunderboy]

It doesn't say where this new ligament actually is. Does anyone know?

"Antero-lateral" means would be in the anterior/lateral compartment of the thigh, so on the front/outside area

Source article: http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/news/not-all-knee-surgeries-are-the-same

The LCL there is the "lateral colateral ligament and runs straight down the outside of the knee. I really don't know how we've managed to miss that for as long as we have.

 

[RUNVS]

Maybe every doctor in the history of the world just had their hand over it and missed it

 

[Doctor Feel]

And David Rodan is out for the year after injuring the newly discovered Anterior Lateral Posterior Horizontal Vertical Equilateral Ligament.

 

[theflea]

"Antero-lateral" means would be in the anterior/lateral compartment of the thigh, so on the front/outside area

Source article: http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/news/not-all-knee-surgeries-are-the-same

The LCL there is the "lateral colateral ligament and runs straight down the outside of the knee. I really don't know how we've managed to miss that for as long as we have.

Thanks mate. Interesting as its not as if the lateral ligament is too far away and it may even join to it on the top end. Either way how can you miss this for so long( never mentioned on my acl or knee op's), which might mean its not common although didn't it say 90% of us have it?

 

[Chunderboy]

Thanks mate. Interesting as its not as if the lateral ligament is too far away and it may even join to it on the top end. Either way how can you miss this for so long( never mentioned on my acl or knee op's), which might mean its not common although didn't it say 90% of us have it?

Yeah 90-something% I think. I really can't say too much though to be honest, I'm only almost 1 year into my degree. But perhaps they always thought it was just another part of the ligament next to it. Or going more left afield it could be something we've developed more recently and it wasn't as common in the past, so once we thought we knew everything we never bothered to revise it and so we're just finding out we have it now. That probably isn't it at all but I'm just thinking up some possibilities

 

[OldStyle2007]

Not everyone has the ligament, so it may not be present in players who've injured their ACL. Who knows, it might be a tiny bugger that's not visible to the naked eye, or dug in so deep like a tick, you gotta go mining for coal.

Well, 97% of people have it. That's kind of most everybody

And it wasn't "discovered" - they've known about this ligament since 1879

http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2013/11/08/anterolateral-ligament-internet-information/

But yeah, very interesting still and maybe some intensified research into that ligament will lead to some future gains in reconstructive surgery

 

[BigEasyPeasy]

Evening guys, I think I may be able to shed some light...

In a nutshell, OldStyle2007 is correct. The ALL has long been known to exist, and it has not been a new 'discovery'. However, the role of the ligament (as with many other body parts) is one which is constantly evolving; the recent 'breakthrough' being the identification of its role in limiting anterior translation of the tibia (basically forward shifting of the long bone in the lower leg), which has historically been associated chiefly with the Anterior Cruciate Ligament. This may open the door to a range of updated treatment options for people undergoing ACL repair, however the efficacy of such operations/ treatment will not be known for some time.

This is not a new thing. Similar research is continually carried out for several body parts- for example, the deltoid muscle (which surrounds the shoulder, think Dwight Howard) is newly thought to in fact comprise seven functionally different muscular compartments.

'Discover new ligament' = journalistic sensationalism.

Exciting nonetheless.

 

[theflea]

Evening guys, I think I may be able to shed some light...

In a nutshell, OldStyle2007 is correct. The ALL has long been known to exist, and it has not been a new 'discovery'. However, the role of the ligament (as with many other body parts) is one which is constantly evolving; the recent 'breakthrough' being the identification of its role in limiting anterior translation of the tibia (basically forward shifting of the long bone in the lower leg), which has historically been associated chiefly with the Anterior Cruciate Ligament. This may open the door to a range of updated treatment options for people undergoing ACL repair, however the efficacy of such operations/ treatment will not be known for some time.

This is not a new thing. Similar research is continually carried out for several body parts- for example, the deltoid muscle (which surrounds the shoulder, think Dwight Howard) is newly thought to in fact comprise seven functionally different muscular compartments.

'Discover new ligament' = journalistic sensationalism.

Exciting nonetheless.

Can I ask why common diagrams etc don't have this ligament shown, even on medical models surgeons have shown me? Is it just the fact that the thinking was it was irrelevant?

 

[mcuzzy]

Definitely not a new discovery if it's clearly printed on a diagram in one of my old crappy science text books..

 

[BluesMan]

Definitely not a new discovery if it's clearly printed on a diagram in one of my old crappy science text books..

Not even in my human anatomy university book Interesting to note they've never acknowedged this ligament during my studies.

 

[BigEasyPeasy]

Combination of factors.

Firstly, mistaken identity. The same ligament used to be referred to a bit as the mid third capsular ligament, or mid third lateral capsular ligament. In some circles it was also referred to as part of the ITB (probably due to proximity to Gerdy's tubercle). Basically we've known it's there, but never had a common language to describe it, and that's partly because....

Secondly, it's functional role was never fully known (and is STILL evolving). The recognition of the ALL (or whatever you wish to call it) came about in response to a functional research question- why were ACL reconstructions still resulting in anterior tibial translation (essentially failed/ inefficient ops)? So now we are at a place where a complete anatomical description of the ligament has been made, isolating it from surrounding structures. I assume that following this a common language (ALL) will endure, with an evolving, though more specific function to be made clear.

I don't know what you are studying, but I think the term 'mid third lateral capsular ligament' highlights why you may not have heard of it ("Ummm... welll it's a capsular ligament... so it must help the capsule... err "). Without a common name, without being identified as a singular structure, and without a known role, it's easy to skim over when creating an anatomy textbook.

 

[mcuzzy]

Not even in my human anatomy university book Interesting to note they've never acknowedged this ligament during my studies.

yeah t doesn't seem like it's commonly taught but it's definitely not newly discovered, I haven't even learnt about it in sport science

 

[BluesMan]

Combination of factors.

Firstly, mistaken identity. The same ligament used to be referred to a bit as the mid third capsular ligament, or mid third lateral capsular ligament. In some circles it was also referred to as part of the ITB (probably due to proximity to Gerdy's tubercle). Basically we've known it's there, but never had a common language to describe it, and that's partly because....

Secondly, it's functional role was never fully known (and is STILL evolving). The recognition of the ALL (or whatever you wish to call it) came about in response to a functional research question- why were ACL reconstructions still resulting in anterior tibial translation (essentially failed/ inefficient ops)? So now we are at a place where a complete anatomical description of the ligament has been made, isolating it from surrounding structures. I assume that following this a common language (ALL) will endure, with an evolving, though more specific function to be made clear.

I don't know what you are studying, but I think the term 'mid third lateral capsular ligament' highlights why you may not have heard of it ("Ummm... welll it's a capsular ligament... so it must help the capsule... err "). Without a common name, without being identified as a singular structure, and without a known role, it's easy to skim over when creating an anatomy textbook.

Yeah I get yah. They must of just stated it as what you said. If we werent currently in exams I would of asked my lecturer in our next lab class. None the less, the human body is awesome to study