Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 5 - The stroll out.

[Chief]

Continued in Part 6.

Play Nice - Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 6 - Prosperity Theology, The Coal Man + His Bootlickers

Part 5 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-5-the-stroll-out.1275975/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Festerz]

Pretty weak stuff. The Greens are as corrupt as the loathsome Coalition because, um, Bob Brown led a convoy through Queensland? OK.

No. Again, I am not saying that. My comments were in direct response to the comment that the Greens were the only trust worthy party. Simply untrue. My examples were used to show why. That is the context of the comment.

And the rest of your argument is....

Well, no. But I do get that is your take from it.

Of course you can say "promises are cheap" if you're never going to vote for the people making them. Well duh.

Actually I have once or twice voted for the Greens in an SA election. And it was not just a 'no candidate' vote either. The thought of that wasted vote still haunts me (that comment is for you Chief )

Labor have had yonks to get their act together on donations reform, on ICAC, on so many questions of transparency and accountability, and they've done bugger all.

Agree in part. The fact SA Labor have voted with the Lib Govt and independents to nobble the SA ICAC last month tells me their commitment to transparency and independence only goes so far.

But a Labor minority government answerable to the Greens and independents holding the balance of power is exactly what this country needs right now.

Disagree. IMHO with a few notable exceptions, minority governments are are a recipe for disaster where individuals and minority interests can hold a government to ransom in terms of responsible policies and legislation.

 

[Festerz]

I'm sorry, this argument is rubbish.

You are, in essence, saying that a party which has currently no chance of holding government shouldn't have a policy platform.

No that is not what I am saying. In essence or in toto.

 

[sherb]

No that is not what I am saying. In essence or in toto.

Yes, that is precisely what you are saying.

 

[Festerz]

Size of a party is no excuse for dishonesty.

Again. That is not what I was saying.

My comment was simply stating what I thought was well understood throughout history - that the larger a political organisation becomes and the more power it attains, the greater is the opportunity for corruption.

 

[sherb]

Again. That is not what I was saying.

My comment was simply stating what I thought was well understood throughout history - that the larger a political organisation becomes and the more power it attains, the greater is the opportunity for corruption.

And, as I was saying, that is still no excuse for corruption.

 

[Festerz]

Yes, that is precisely what you are saying.

LOL. No, it is precisely what your narrow interpretation of what I wrote says, Because of your political allegiance. I have none.

I said a policy platform which has no chance of being implemented is a 'hollow promise', by definition. Look it up in a dictionary.

And, as I was saying, that is still no excuse for corruption

Well done Captain Obvious. You're all for motherhood as a concept too I guess.

 

[sherb]

LOL. No, it is precisely what your narrow interpretation of what I wrote says, Because of your political allegiance.

You wrote this:
Like I said, promises are cheap. Especially if you have zero chance of actually having to delivering on them. Which is exactly where the Greens sit. They have just 1 of 151 seats in the House of Representatives, the same as Bob Katter and probably less effective.

In other words, according to you, if you are a party with no chance of being in government, what's the point of making promises you can't keep? Or, to put it another way, what's the point of even having policies if you can't deliver them?

But, sure, let's play along and assume that's not what you meant - you are, at the very least, discrediting a policy due to the minority standing of the party.

Either way, as I said, it's a rubbish argument.

And, pray tell, as a matter of interest, what is my political allegiance?

 

[Festerz]

In other words

No - don't replace my words with your own to conveniently fit your narrative, champ. Use the words I wrote as you quoted:

'Like I said, promises are cheap. Especially if you have zero chance of actually having to delivering on them.'

More than happy to stand by that, exactly as I wrote. And, more to the point, in the context in which I wrote them which was in direct response to a statement claiming that the Greens were the 'only party that stands on a platform of cleaning up corruption....'

The point being (and one you seem unable to comprehend) is that comparing the comprehensive wish list platform of a party that will never form government with party or parties that have a realistic chance of forming government and actually will (or at least should) be held to account to deliver on their platform promises is a disingenuous comparison. Especially given what happened to Bill Shorten's attempt to present a comprehensive and costed policy platform at the last Federal election.

You reckon it's a rubbish argument.

Well boo hoo you.

 

[sherb]

No - don't replace my words with your own to conveniently fit your narrative, champ. Use the words I wrote as you quoted:

'Like I said, promises are cheap. Especially if you have zero chance of actually having to delivering on them.'

More than happy to stand by that, exactly as I wrote.

You reckon it's a rubbish argument.

Well boo hoo you.

What promises should a party that can't form government make then? Given that they can't keep any of them?

And what's my political allegiance - champ?

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

I mean... what's left to say?

The most corrupt government we have ever had.

Every week I wonder how they can sink lower. And they do!

It's quite incredible.

Just makes you sad for what was once a great country.

 

[sherb]

I mean... what's left to say?

The most corrupt government we have ever had.

Certainly at federal level, in my time of watching politics.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

Even the LNP simps have backed off, they know it's rotten but they wouldn't dare speak out about it

Gutless

 

[Magruder]

Having read through this thread I agree with much of what Festerz has to say…

The Greens are clean through potentially a lack of opportunity. There’s a fair bit of s**t that gets thrown around in branch land and greens councils, very little of it of consequence; but enough to suggest skullduggery would scale up With greater resourcing.

Minority govt s are fragile but dangerous beasts and much depends on the leadership. The Gillard minority government was highly successful, but I think we can characterise theMorrison govt as effectively a minority govt at the moment held hostage by the Joyce’s and Canavans and Pitts of a deeply fractious coalition partner.

But I disagree that a vote for the greens is wasted. Rather than conforming to Hotellings edict, they can present as a differentiated or niche offering.The less than likely prospect of them forming government does bring certain benefits and allow risks in terms of policy settings.

I’ll vote for the greens, if I feel their positions best reflect my views as, * me isn’t that point of representative democracy?

I recognise it’s the art of the possible but they may as well have the $4 for my primary vote.

but you can guess where my preference will flow…

 

[Magruder]

I mean... what's left to say?

The most corrupt government we have ever had.

Every week I wonder how they can sink lower. And they do!

It's quite incredible.

Just makes you sad for what was once a great country.

I always read your username as “Oh s**t, that guy.”

 

[cartwright]

Why would any woman vote for this mob?

my guess is this whole exercise is just a sound bite to say they’re doing something

Grace Tame is fantastic

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

I always read your username as “Oh sh*t, that guy.”

Won't lie, sometimes I do too

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

No - don't replace my words with your own to conveniently fit your narrative, champ. Use the words I wrote as you quoted:

'Like I said, promises are cheap. Especially if you have zero chance of actually having to delivering on them.'

More than happy to stand by that, exactly as I wrote.

With all due respect, anyone can stand by that statement as it’s nothing.

And, more to the point, in the context in which I wrote them which was in direct response to a statement claiming that the Greens were the 'only party that stands on a platform of cleaning up corruption....'

What in that statement is not true?

And no, it’s not good enough to just brush that away by saying you can’t compare them to a major party. Your point is understood, but it in no way invalidates my point.

Until people acknowledge that there is a not-insignificant party which pointedly and overtly stands on a platform of cleaning up corruption and bringing in donations reform, and has a pretty clean record on the subject, Australian politics is just going to get more and more crooked.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

No. Again, I am not saying that. My comments were in direct response to the comment that the Greens were the only trust worthy party. Simply untrue. My examples were used to show why. That is the context of the comment.

You’re saying that a handful of scandals on the state level (by that argument, Eddie Obeid and Ian McDonald in NSW Labor mean we can never trust federal Labor), and a political misjudgment by Bob Brown mean the Greens cannot be trusted. I say that’s an absurdly high bar you’re setting.

 

[Retzlaff]

Imo a dull a technocrat like Bill Shorten with his platform would have been really good for Australia.

Yeah but have you seen what he looks like when jogging?

 

[GreyWind]

Yeah but have you seen what he looks like when jogging?

At least Shorten could get up a small hill without looking like he's about to die.

 

[Rob R]

Well, actually by definition that is exactly what they are.



Like I said, promises are cheap. Especially if you have zero chance of actually having to delivering on them. Which is exactly where the Greens sit. They have just 1 of 151 seats in the House of Representatives, the same as Bob Katter and probably less effective.




First of all my comments about the Greens are not unfounded suppositions but statements of fact. For example scandals involving candidates Joanna Nilson, Angus McAlpine and Lidia Thorpe saw the Greens lose half (4/8) of their seats in Victorian Parliament in the 2019 election. It led to the Victorian Greens introducing a new probity process for the vetting of candidates. Feel free to do your own research on the issue.

And Bob Brown's arrogant march to Adani in the lead up to the last Federal election was widely recognised as playing a key role in galvanising National Party support behind the Government retaining key national seats. It simply took votes away from the ALP and delivered them to the Coalition.

Second, the point of my comments was to repel the suggestion made by another poster that 'the greens and independents like Lambie can be trusted'. A claim you are supporting, at least as far as the Greens are concerned. It is blatant nonsense as my examples show.

I am not party aligned but have a distaste for honesty in power wherever it shows itself. And the current Federal Government under Morrison is an utter disgrace. They need to be removed.

You say you will vote for the Greens because they are 'the only party that promises to actually clean it up.'

Sadly, the Greens will NEVER have a chance to act on that promise because they will NEVER have the seats in the House of Representatives to deliver that change, at least in the next election cycle.

So sadly your vote, if it is to the Greens and in the hope of 'cleaning it up', will be wasted.

Pity.

Did Bob Browns honesty hurt the ALP or the fact that due to something called the internet voters knew that the ALPs position on Adani was different from electorate to electorate resulting in some voters going LNP or GRN as the ALP was showing it couldnt be trusted on that issue.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Great article that systematically puts the final nails in the coffins of Morrison’s pathetic objections to a federal ICAC.

The jailing of an ex-NSW Labor minister and the Berejiklian Icac inquiry show why we need a federal corruption watchdog with teeth | Anne Davies

Eddie Obeid’s sentencing and the Gladys Berejiklian probe demonstrate, in different ways, the weaknesses in the Morrison government’s proposed integrity commission

www.theguardian.com

 

[Millky95]

No, we're not going to see a Greens-led government any time soon. But a Labor minority government answerable to the Greens and independents holding the balance of power is exactly what this country needs right now.

Whilst I do think a Labor-Greens coalition would be good in the long term, short term (like 2 elections cycles) I want a Labor majority. Let them prove they can govern, let them get s**t done, then form the new coalition (not minority government) because the news will destroy any Labor lead minority government particularly if independents are involved

 

[Burro]

It's disappointing that Jacquie Lambie has gone harder over Porter's blind trust than Albanese. She described it as a brown paper bag job. Albo should be saying quite loudly that the money could be from the Chinese government, organised crime, Russian hackers etc. If Porter doesn't know who put the money in, how could he possibly reject the possibility?

Lambie only knows one way to speak bless her. I like her except for the times she allowed herself to be fooled by the LNP.

 

[Magruder]

my guess is this whole exercise is just a sound bite to say they’re doing something

Grace Tame is fantastic

isn’t she?

when she was announced as AotY, I saw the 5 second grabs of a somewhat emotional GT, saw the photo ops with Morrison.
I thought, telegenic blonde victim prop for the psychopath and despaired.

But she has proven herself to be one of the most impressive and influential public figures to emerge in some time.

wish She could stay on as sort of carry over champion