Scratch Match 10 Feb

[JoeHawk]

JOR, Howie, Langers and Billy are my main contenders but none cover Rough/forward or Lake/defender spots.

For the Rough replacement, I think Timmy will end up as the preferred option. Both he and Sicily struggle body on body but I reckon Timmy works harder. For the defensive spot, Kurt is in front but I reckon he'll get found out at AFL level.

Against most opposition we'll cover for Rough just fine. its just half a season. As for Lake, wasn't Frawley recruited for exactly that reason? We'll be fine and as we've discussed here, gives opportunity for others to step up. Exciting times.

 

[Ordovician]

Why is this? Not big enough to play on the monster forwards? Doesn't know the game enough yet or have the requisite skills etc.? Or simply won't get there?

I my view from having watched a lot of BH last season, is that Heatherly is definitely not a number one defender like a Lake or Frawley.

He is listed as 193cm and 89kg and to my eye the height is spot on and the weight must be somewhere near the mark as he has a very rangy build. At 21 he is unlikely to grow but he will get stronger in the body and particularly the core.

At the moment there is no way he can play on monster forwards he does not have the strength or the height, and more importantly as ESC has previously pointed out, he can not play static body to body very well at all as he is lost in that situation, unlike a Lake/Frawley.

Perhaps he is better thought of as a number 2 defender, emergency tall, or covering third tall, a bit like Gibbo who'll take a second forward ok but excels at spoiling his man or going third man up. As a zoning defender taking intercept marks, or coming in late where he has a clear run into the pack to spoil, then at VFL level he is very effective. Against 200cm static forwards at VFL level he is lost.

If he gets a decent introduction to AFL he could take on a fair bit of Gibbo role, but not standing in when the number one defender is down and particularly not against the huge ones like Hawkins, Coke or even a young one like a Boyd or a Daniher (god I loathe anybody who has anything to do at that drug cheating filth club).

Heatherly has good closing speed, he can spoil very well in motion and in open spaces, he is a good intercept and contested mark, he is a neat kick (if he keeps within his limitations which he does) in spite of his awkward ball drop , he loves crashing the contest, and he is keen to learn, which is all great stuff.

I think he'll be all right as a third tall pinch hitter type a sort of Gibbo-Stratton hybrid, but perhaps the club may prefer to use some one like Howe in this third tall/zoning HBF role, as Howe can run through the midfield as well and is more creative and confident with the ball.

He was very good at BH last season and came third in the Col Austen (behind Simpkin and Mirra) so he must be doing something right, in the eyes of the coaches at least. So being the best performed of the surviving hawks players from BH 2015 season one would think that he'd be amongst the first cabs of the rank to slot into any backline vacancy created by the departure of Lake and Suckling.

So who knows how it will all pan out?

We'll find out soon enough and people can make their own judgements when they finally see Kurty for themselves on Thursday night.

 

[Turly]

Birch being trialed in the guts is very exciting news indeed.

Fingers crossed it eventuates

 

[Ordovician]

For the defensive spot, Kurt is in front but I reckon he'll get found out at AFL level.

That is an interesting observation, would you care to elaborate?

Is it a lack of class, kicking skills, ordinary option selection, composure etc. in your option that might hold him back?

 

[Ordovician]

So JOR, Howe, Sicily and Kiwi are putting the real pressure on selectors for round 1?

Howe, Howe, Howe and Howe.

Everywhere you go that's Hawthorn related you can not avoid his name being sung in the highest praises. Sort of injuries he'll be right up there for round one until his second training year body runs out of steam.

JOR ... well if he continues to play like he did in the practice game through the challenge games, and that is a big if, then he is a very strong contender as well.

Sicily is not a Roughy replacement per se. If we want to go small in the forward line then maybe, but I would not discount Fitzpatrick being given a run in the challenge games to see how he goes in this role.

Clarko has so many options including TOB that I'd expect to see looks of experimentation which our forward set ups and you won't be able to pick then up form the TV either if we continue the policy of rapid forward set up changes that Clarko has adopted over the last few seasons. At least Sicily has the advantage of TOB atm that he is performing ok out on the track in the simulations and eth practice game.

Kurt was subdued in the practice game and has not been really standing out in the exercises to date so he is not demanding selection although one would think he'd be in consideration due to size and his performances last season.

So that's a definite, a maybe, a meh, and not really but who else have they got that's better.

We'll have far better idea after they all get a run in the challenge series against more serious opposition.

 

[Brant]

How is Howe for pace?

I was surprised the other day to read someone (I forget who) say that JO'R was quick. Is Howe considered quick, does he have a burst of pace/acceleration?

 

[Ordovician]

JOR is probably quick over a 20m sprint trial as are most mids and even most small and medium sized footy players these days. Slow true footballers like Mitch and Lewis are unfortunately, rapidly being replaced by the more athletic running type these days.

However, the quality you really look for inside mids is the ability to track all the payers around them and to be able to weave and select a path through to find the space and time to hit up your desired option.

Mitch is the master of this with his vision and ultra clever side steps.

Howe, and I don't like saying this to people who have not seen a lot of him because it is a huge claim, is really like Pendlebury the way he can hold the ball and weave through eth players around him. So many informed observers that I know, either use the Pendlebury analogy or use other metaphorical constructions to convey a similar concept, like they say he seems to slow time around him when he has the ball. He is certainly very clever and very composed and could one day be considered near elite in this are of the game.

With players like he and Mitchell pace almost becomes irrelevant. Damn! Without realising it I seem to have drifted on to the Howe bandwagon!

In a straight line sprint onto a loose ball he'd be up there with most of the second pace rung players on the team. He is no Rioli, Pops, Hill, Smith, Billy, Langers, Lithers, or a Strats, but he'd be right up there with the next group with Breust & Duryea i.e. not blistering but more than good enough. Nor does he have burst pace like a Rioli or a Langford.

 

[Spanish Sahara]

JOR is probably quick over a 20m sprint trial as are most mids and even most small and medium sized footy players these days. Slow true footballers like Mitch and Lewis are unfortunately, rapidly being replaced by the more athletic running type these days.

However, the quality you really look for inside mids is the ability to track all the payers around them and to be able to weave and select a path through to find the space and time to hit up your desired option.

Mitch is the master of this with his vision and ultra clever side steps.

Howe, and I don't like saying this to people who have not seen a lot of him because it is a huge claim, is really like Pendlebury the way he can hold the ball and weave through eth players around him. So many informed observers that I know, either use the Pendlebury analogy or use other metaphorical constructions to convey a similar concept, like they say he seems to slow time around him when he has the ball. He is certainly very clever and very composed and could one day be considered near elite in this are of the game.

With players like he and Mitchell pace almost becomes irrelevant. Damn! Without realising it I seem to have drifted on to the Howe bandwagon!

In a straight line sprint onto a loose ball he'd be up there with most of the second pace rung players on the team. He is no Rioli, Pops, Hill, Smith, Billy, Langers, Lithers, or a Strats, but he'd be right up there with the next group with Breust & Duryea i.e. not blistering but more than good enough. Nor does he have burst pace like a Rioli or a Langford.

First time i saw Howe play I had the made the same comparison to Pendles. Both of them just seem to have so much time on the ball, never rushed with their disposal and decision making.

 

[play2win]

I can vaguely see the comparison to pendles when Howe has the ball, but the thing that impressed me the most was his defensive capability to impact a contest when he didn't have the ball. He just seemed to be able to position himself to influence the contest whenever the ball was in his area, he could just read the play so well and knew what his opponent would do before they even did it.

 

[Neville Bartos]

The Pendlebury comparison is only 1/2 of the glass really. There are plenty of players around the league who "slow down time" such as Xavier Ellis, Farren Ray, David Myers etc who aren't great players. Pendles is a star because he's also super fit, has top 1% skills in the league and reads the play better than almost anyone.
How many of these traits does Howe have?

 

[eldorado]

Howe, and I don't like saying this to people who have not seen a lot of him because it is a huge claim, is really like Pendlebury the way he can hold the ball and weave through eth players around him.

That's exactly the perception I have of him as well. Just that peripheral vision, sense of time and space, and calmness in delaying decisions until the right moment.

 

[Gralin]

The Pendlebury comparison is only 1/2 of the glass really. There are plenty of players around the league who "slow down time" such as Xavier Ellis, Farren Ray, David Myers etc who aren't great players. Pendles is a star because he's also super fit, has top 1% skills in the league and reads the play better than almost anyone.
How many of these traits does Howe have?

Pendles had an elite work ethic no doubt, he's such a smooth mover has great balance and vision, another with a basketball background too like Roughy

Howe is showing some encouraging signs on the field and on the training track if he turns out to be of that quality Hawks will be very will served for the next decade

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

...Is it a lack of class ....

Can we use the word finesse?

In our set up Frawley plays KPD, Gibbo hybrid, Stratts small defender, the rest fill zones and rebound. Kurt was trying to rebound more last season, he was running a lot deeper but he is no play maker.

Kurt will end up standing medium forwards, I don't believe he will be able to read the game to their level.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

The Pendlebury comparison is only 1/2 of the glass really. There are plenty of players around the league who "slow down time" such as Xavier Ellis, Farren Ray, David Myers etc who aren't great players. Pendles is a star because he's also super fit, has top 1% skills in the league and reads the play better than almost anyone.
How many of these traits does Howe have?

Nev. You are missing a 1 at the end of your signature.
#hawthornproblems

 

[Ordovician]

Can we use the word finesse?

In our set up Frawley plays KPD, Gibbo hybrid, Stratts small defender, the rest fill zones and rebound. Kurt was trying to rebound more last season, he was running a lot deeper but he is no play maker.

Kurt will end up standing medium forwards, I don't believe he will be able to read the game to their level.

Thanks for that.

That is a reasonable and fair assessment

 

[Neville Bartos]

Nev. You are missing a 1 at the end of your signature.
#hawthornproblems

Wow! How did I miss that!?! Thanks mate

 

[grumbleguts]

Wow! How did I miss that!?! Thanks mate

But you're still missing it.