Analysis SETTLE IT: Why didn't Crows go for Mattaes Phillipou?

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Great to hear.

Do you know what format that took? Asking Dons for pick 4 before or on draft night? Or other? Dodo-ro is well known as the most difficult List Mgr to deal with so would have likely had way over the top demands for pick 4 I assume..

Either way, with 3 reported meetings with Mattaes just before the draft we have clearly conveyed our serious interest in him going forward and I imagine will be already dangling a nice juicy carrot in front of him. Seeing Dawson and Rankine and the huge ADL Oval atmosphere with a finals bound team over coming years should be an easier sell. I think its harder to get players from the big VIC clubs (inc Geelong and their ingenious salary cap 'strategies') compared to smaller teams like Saints, Dogs, Kangas and even the Horks are in for a number of years of pain hopefully making Day think twice
We put our future 1st and 2nd at least on the table as TAFKATMS has said for any clubs to take until he was off the table, unfortunately most of the clubs in that region were in a similar position wanting top end talent "NOW" not a year later.
 
The other clubs would have tried but not necessarily succeed since GCS were always going to trade out Bowes with their 1st rounder. Pity he didn't want to live in SA.
Unfortunately - without any personal judgement - ADL is seemingly right up there as one of the least desirable locations to live and play footy for many young alpha males - esp from the bigger, richer and more sophisticated cities. Fingers crossed we can finally stop the flow of A Graders leaving with Rachelle, Soligo etc but I am sure we are all worried based on history. Success in the future will certainly help but hasnt previously (Lever, CC, Mc Govern within 12 mths of GF in 2017). At least we are now going very hard and capturing players returning home perhaps for the first time ever.

I have thought for a long time that with our squad a decade ago with Rendells drafting and shrewd trading by Noble, if we were an inner city trendy MLB club/location (like Hawthorn) we would have won a few flags in the last 10-12 years. The losses have been SO painful... Gunston (leagues best medium forward the last decade), CC (leagues best small fwd last half a decade), Davis (top quartile FB), Danger (at the absolute elite end of the best players in the league for a number of years), Lever (leagues best 3rd defender/interceptor), Mc Govern (has never really reached potential), not having to pay overs for Sloanes seemingly ridiculous contract (750k+ for 5 years when he had already shown he couldn't break a hard tag but culturally we couldn't afford to lose him) etc etc
 
With you. A club like us should never, ever be near the bottom. 16 wins to me is unacceptable rebuild or no rebuild. Top clubs rebuild but never bottom out for long periods.
Yes they do. Hawthorn's rebuild in the 2000s will never be replicated in the modern era, as it involved being gifted priority picks for finishing with 5 or less wins. That is the only way they could draft Buddy, Roughead, Lewis etc in consecutive drafts. Clubs used to trade single digit picks for slighlty above average players in that era too e.g. Freo with Croad that allowed them to draft Hodge, who they got back anyway.

A club like Carlton started building their current list 9 years ago and are only now pushing finals. Freo took 7 years after their last GF appearance to bottom out and then push finals again (and included drafting some duds in the first round, like we have unfortunately been guilty of too). Richmond's building of its premiership teams started in the late 2000s (after many failed rebuilds) with drafting the likes of Riewoldt, Cotchin and Dusty and again took 8 years to play finals and win flags. It took Collingwood 7 years to seriously contend again after playing in the 2011 GF, in that time drafting their core stars like De Goey. Melbourne drafted Gawn in 2009, Oliver and Petracca in 2015 and finally got their flag in 2021. It took Brisbane 9 years of bottom 6 finishes to then eventually make finals again.

Sydney and Geelong have never really bottomed out but have been helped by FS and academy selections.

Rebuilds (i.e. pushing finals consistently and contending for flags) after completing gutting a list and starting from the bottom take on average 6-8 years, so your statement just isn't based on any facts. We are in year 4 of a rebuild that started at the end of 2019, which gives the club 1-2 more off seasons to draft/trade more quality in and push for finals consistently from 2025/2026. Target Will Day. Target Elijah Hollands. Target Brennan Cox. Draft in high end midfield talent like Rachele. Nail at least two of those and the core high end talent to consistently play finals is there.
 

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Yes they do. Hawthorn's rebuild in the 2000s will never be replicated in the modern era, as it involved being gifted priority picks for finishing with 5 or less wins. That is the only way they could draft Buddy, Roughead, Lewis etc in consecutive drafts. Clubs used to trade single digit picks for slighlty above average players in that era too e.g. Freo with Croad that allowed them to draft Hodge, who they got back anyway.

A club like Carlton started building their current list 9 years ago and are only now pushing finals. Freo took 7 years after their last GF appearance to bottom out and then push finals again (and included drafting some duds in the first round, like we have unfortunately been guilty of too). Richmond's building of its premiership teams started in the late 2000s (after many failed rebuilds) with drafting the likes of Riewoldt, Cotchin and Dusty and again took 8 years to play finals and win flags. It took Collingwood 7 years to seriously contend again after playing in the 2011 GF, in that time drafting their core stars like De Goey. Melbourne drafted Gawn in 2009, Oliver and Petracca in 2015 and finally got their flag in 2021. It took Brisbane 9 years of bottom 6 finishes to then eventually make finals again.

Sydney and Geelong have never really bottomed out but have been helped by FS and academy selections.

Rebuilds (i.e. pushing finals consistently and contending for flags) after completing gutting a list and starting from the bottom take on average 6-8 years, so your statement just isn't based on any facts. We are in year 4 of a rebuild that started at the end of 2019, which gives the club 1-2 more off seasons to draft/trade more quality in and push for finals consistently from 2025/2026. Target Will Day. Target Elijah Hollands. Target Brennan Cox. Draft in high end midfield talent like Rachele. Nail at least two of those and the core high end talent to consistently play finals is there.
I suppose we have been rebuilding for 25 years.:think:;)
 
With you. A club like us should never, ever be near the bottom. 16 wins to me is unacceptable rebuild or no rebuild. Top clubs rebuild but never bottom out for long periods.
In the past we rebuild our list to be premiership contenders every 5-6 years without bottom out but the CM causing our biggest list transition didn't allow us to turnover our list smoothly which usually which have happened. And we did this biggest list turnover at the worst possible time right when the pandemic occurred which set the progression 1-1.5 years back and also made a big mistake with McAsey, we are only now starting to see our list coming together.
 
In the past we rebuild our list to be premiership contenders every 5-6 years without bottom out but the CM causing our biggest list transition didn't allow us to turnover our list smoothly which usually which have happened. And we did this biggest list turnover at the worst possible time right when the pandemic occurred which set the progression 1-1.5 years back and also made a big mistake with McAsey, we are only now starting to see our list coming together.
We also had a complete dud of a high performance boss that left our players either injured or poorly prepared for elite level football.

Hass gets off too lightly IMO.
 
... Top clubs rebuild but never bottom out for long periods.
Top clubs like Geel, Hawt, Rich, Melb have the benefit of being able to attract home grown talent that have developed into top/elite players at interstate clubs, especially with Vic producing the bulk of players at the draft - on top of normal draft picks/trades. So they can get away without having to do a deep rebuild and we've seen how far Geel & Hawks have been able to push this approach.

Until recently with Dawson & Rankine, we don't have this luxury and have had to depend on the draft - and again having to draft lot of Vic players.

The terms high/low ceiling/floor usually applied to young players I think can also be applied to clubs and their lists. Since our flag years, we've kind of operated with lists that might not be that high but we've managed to get a lot out of them and gotten close at times to more flags.

Doing a deep rebuild gives a club to gather a group of young players that has a high ceiling, which hopefully is what we have now done.
 
Unfortunately - without any personal judgement - ADL is seemingly right up there as one of the least desirable locations to live and play footy for many young alpha males - esp from the bigger, richer and more sophisticated cities. Fingers crossed we can finally stop the flow of A Graders leaving with Rachelle, Soligo etc but I am sure we are all worried based on history. Success in the future will certainly help but hasnt previously (Lever, CC, Mc Govern within 12 mths of GF in 2017). At least we are now going very hard and capturing players returning home perhaps for the first time ever.

I have thought for a long time that with our squad a decade ago with Rendells drafting and shrewd trading by Noble, if we were an inner city trendy MLB club/location (like Hawthorn) we would have won a few flags in the last 10-12 years. The losses have been SO painful... Gunston (leagues best medium forward the last decade), CC (leagues best small fwd last half a decade), Davis (top quartile FB), Danger (at the absolute elite end of the best players in the league for a number of years), Lever (leagues best 3rd defender/interceptor), Mc Govern (has never really reached potential), not having to pay overs for Sloanes seemingly ridiculous contract (750k+ for 5 years when he had already shown he couldn't break a hard tag but culturally we couldn't afford to lose him) etc etc
Have you lived in Melbourne? It's a shithole and especially with Dictator Dan in charge. Once we move our base and most players are living in the eastern suburbs players will be less likely to move.
 
Yes they do. Hawthorn's rebuild in the 2000s will never be replicated in the modern era, as it involved being gifted priority picks for finishing with 5 or less wins. That is the only way they could draft Buddy, Roughead, Lewis etc in consecutive drafts. Clubs used to trade single digit picks for slighlty above average players in that era too e.g. Freo with Croad that allowed them to draft Hodge, who they got back anyway.

A club like Carlton started building their current list 9 years ago and are only now pushing finals. Freo took 7 years after their last GF appearance to bottom out and then push finals again (and included drafting some duds in the first round, like we have unfortunately been guilty of too). Richmond's building of its premiership teams started in the late 2000s (after many failed rebuilds) with drafting the likes of Riewoldt, Cotchin and Dusty and again took 8 years to play finals and win flags. It took Collingwood 7 years to seriously contend again after playing in the 2011 GF, in that time drafting their core stars like De Goey. Melbourne drafted Gawn in 2009, Oliver and Petracca in 2015 and finally got their flag in 2021. It took Brisbane 9 years of bottom 6 finishes to then eventually make finals again.

Sydney and Geelong have never really bottomed out but have been helped by FS and academy selections.

Rebuilds (i.e. pushing finals consistently and contending for flags) after completing gutting a list and starting from the bottom take on average 6-8 years, so your statement just isn't based on any facts. We are in year 4 of a rebuild that started at the end of 2019, which gives the club 1-2 more off seasons to draft/trade more quality in and push for finals consistently from 2025/2026. Target Will Day. Target Elijah Hollands. Target Brennan Cox. Draft in high end midfield talent like Rachele. Nail at least two of those and the core high end talent to consistently play finals is there.

Exactly. 2-3 more A grade players in over the next two seasons either by free agency, trade or draft. And get the current core star talent to 50-80 games

Watching the replay of the showdown last night and had a good look at Ports list. SPP was super impressive and I thought there is another of their young players really breaking out. Then I noticed he has played 120 games! Has really turned the corner in the last 18 months but I wonder why. Games played and seasons in the system are imperative to climb up the ladder and we don’t have that profile yet - but we are getting there


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Have you lived in Melbourne? It's a shithole and especially with Dictator Dan in charge. Once we move our base and most players are living in the eastern suburbs players will be less likely to move.
Yes I have lived in MLB, SYD and BNE for approx 3 years each and anyone calling MLB a shithole...just is on a different page in life. Nothing else needs to be said.
 
Yes they do. Hawthorn's rebuild in the 2000s will never be replicated in the modern era, as it involved being gifted priority picks for finishing with 5 or less wins. That is the only way they could draft Buddy, Roughead, Lewis etc in consecutive drafts. Clubs used to trade single digit picks for slighlty above average players in that era too e.g. Freo with Croad that allowed them to draft Hodge, who they got back anyway.

A club like Carlton started building their current list 9 years ago and are only now pushing finals. Freo took 7 years after their last GF appearance to bottom out and then push finals again (and included drafting some duds in the first round, like we have unfortunately been guilty of too). Richmond's building of its premiership teams started in the late 2000s (after many failed rebuilds) with drafting the likes of Riewoldt, Cotchin and Dusty and again took 8 years to play finals and win flags. It took Collingwood 7 years to seriously contend again after playing in the 2011 GF, in that time drafting their core stars like De Goey. Melbourne drafted Gawn in 2009, Oliver and Petracca in 2015 and finally got their flag in 2021. It took Brisbane 9 years of bottom 6 finishes to then eventually make finals again.

Sydney and Geelong have never really bottomed out but have been helped by FS and academy selections.

Rebuilds (i.e. pushing finals consistently and contending for flags) after completing gutting a list and starting from the bottom take on average 6-8 years, so your statement just isn't based on any facts. We are in year 4 of a rebuild that started at the end of 2019, which gives the club 1-2 more off seasons to draft/trade more quality in and push for finals consistently from 2025/2026. Target Will Day. Target Elijah Hollands. Target Brennan Cox. Draft in high end midfield talent like Rachele. Nail at least two of those and the core high end talent to consistently play finals is there.
some good points but these were all in the same draft

is the only way they could draft Buddy, Roughead, Lewis etc in consecutive drafts. They actually buggered up lots of high end draft picks but then poached player after player (like Gunston) which appears the approach we are now also going with the Horks Ex COO
 

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some good points but these were all in the same draft

is the only way they could draft Buddy, Roughead, Lewis etc in consecutive drafts. They actually buggered up lots of high end draft picks but then poached player after player (like Gunston) which appears the approach we are now also going with the Horks Ex COO
Yes, you are right. Probably should have made the point they couldn’t have drafts like that these days without priority picks.
 
Yes, you are right. Probably should have made the point they couldn’t have drafts like that these days without priority picks.
and the really sad thing is without the priority picks handed out we would have had pick 5 which = Lance Buddy Franklin...
 
Either the club is incompetent in getting the capital to play the market

Or MPs redflags were going to be too much for us to contain

Now when I say flags I dont mean 3am shenanigans but watching the young lad he has a lot of self belief and confidence in himself. Like JHF I get the feeling he expected to play R1 and maybe said something along those lines

We dont do that. 2 years in the SANFL lad and you will like it!

I dont know - I just got the impression there was a disconnect somewhere

#TeamVolbeat
Like we did Rachelle and Soligo right?
 
Bowes looks pretty ordinary, if he’s best 22 we wouldn’t be going to well

Paying him 900k to play reserves would've been worth it to keep pick 5.

Salary cap at this stage of our development should not be an issue at the AFC.

Pathetic effort from our list management team, give a club pick 5 and they piss away pick 7.
 
I wonder... could the Michalanneys be another angle to this question.

For a while, we here had a go at trying to figure out whether Jim's kids would qualify as F-Ss for us and could come up with anything that pointed one way or other.

Maybe the FL couldn't either (without a thorough look into it) so says to AFC "be nice to GC and we'll sign off on Jim's kids being eligible for you guys." so we did? :think:
 
I wonder... could the Michalanneys be another angle to this question.

For a while, we here had a go at trying to figure out whether Jim's kids would qualify as F-Ss for us and could come up with anything that pointed one way or other.

Maybe the FL couldn't either (without a thorough look into it) so says to AFC "be nice to GC and we'll sign off on Jim's kids being eligible for you guys." so we did? :think:
Im still a bit surprised Jim's kids were considered eligible. Then again, the ridiculous number of games to qualify and them not initially counting Escort Cup games was a joke.
 
Unfortunately - without any personal judgement - ADL is seemingly right up there as one of the least desirable locations to live and play footy for many young alpha males - esp from the bigger, richer and more sophisticated cities. Fingers crossed we can finally stop the flow of A Graders leaving with Rachelle, Soligo etc but I am sure we are all worried based on history. Success in the future will certainly help but hasnt previously (Lever, CC, Mc Govern within 12 mths of GF in 2017). At least we are now going very hard and capturing players returning home perhaps for the first time ever.

I have thought for a long time that with our squad a decade ago with Rendells drafting and shrewd trading by Noble, if we were an inner city trendy MLB club/location (like Hawthorn) we would have won a few flags in the last 10-12 years. The losses have been SO painful... Gunston (leagues best medium forward the last decade), CC (leagues best small fwd last half a decade), Davis (top quartile FB), Danger (at the absolute elite end of the best players in the league for a number of years), Lever (leagues best 3rd defender/interceptor), Mc Govern (has never really reached potential), not having to pay overs for Sloanes seemingly ridiculous contract (750k+ for 5 years when he had already shown he couldn't break a hard tag but culturally we couldn't afford to lose him) etc etc

lol Alpha males. has to be the dumbest term ever.
 
It's simple,.Bowes did not want to play for us.after hearing from Hugh Greenwood....
On a serious note, he didn't want to come here.
 

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