Politics Should Australia become a Republic?

[Carringbush2010]

you can drive him. **** the king and all his inbred family

 

[Roylion]

what makes you assume i was talking to you?

Did you miss where you directly replied to my post?

 

[evolved2]

Long live King William.

 

[Roylion]

you can drive him. **** the king and all his inbred family

How 'inbred' are the current royal family exactly?

Queen Victoria married her first cousin.
King Edward VII married his third cousin once removed (effectively fourth cousin)
King George V married his second cousin once removed (effectively third cousin - their common ancestor was George III)
King George VI married his thirteenth cousin (their common ancestor was King Henry VII (r. 1485 -1507) over 400 years before.
Queen Elizabeth II married her second cousin once removed (effectively third cousin)
King Charles married his seventh cousin (Diana) once removed (effectively eighth cousin. (Camilla is his ninth cousin once removed)
Prince William married his eleventh cousin once removed (effectively twelfth cousin). Prince Harry and Meaghan Markle are fifteenth cousins with a common ancestor who lived in the late 15th century.

Cousin marriage is prevalent in a number of societies around the world and at various times in history. United States before 1880, Ancient Rome, medieval Europe, ancient China, some regions of modern India, the Middle East to this day, particularly in Islamic countries. Certain Middle Eastern countries, including Saudi Arabia have rates of marriage to first or second cousins that are estimated to exceed 70%. Iraq was estimated in one study to have a rate of 33% for marriage between first and second cousins and figures for Afghanistan have been estimated in the range of 30–40%.

An estimated 35–50% of all sub-Saharan African populations either prefer or accept cousin marriages.

Slightly over 10% of all marriages worldwide are estimated to be between second cousins or closer.

Anthropologist Robin Fox of Rutgers University, suggests that it is likely that 80% of all marriages in history may have been between second cousins or closer. Record keeping for royalty and nobility was just better at recordng such marriages.

If there was no intermarriage between related people, each person living today would have 33,554,432 individual ancestors in roughly AD 1200.

The combined population of Italy, France and England in the thirteenth century has been estimated somewhere between 33 and 40 million. The population of the world in 1200 has been estimated to have been roughly 450 million.

40 generations back and we would have 1,099,511,627,77 individual ancestors, assuming no inter-marriage. That's about the year AD 750.The world population in AD 800 has been estimated between 220 million and 261 million. So 'inbreeding' through cousin marriage doesn't appear to be very rare.

Indeed millions of people throughout the world today are far more 'inbred' than our current royal family.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Long live King William.

Most Irish people won't be too keen on another King Billy I can tell you...

The Joyce Project

m.joyceproject.com

...The Dutch prince William of Orange invaded England to assist in the deposition of King James II, whose Catholic sympathies had alarmed the Protestant majority of that nation, and as the newly crowned King of England he invaded Ireland to pursue the fleeing James. The victory of "King Billy," as many Scots and Ulster Protestants call him, over James at the Battle of the Boyne near Drogheda ushered in the Protestant Ascendancy, the penal laws, the systematic colonial subjugation of Irish Catholics, and the Act of Union that disbanded the Irish Parliament and reduced the city of Dublin to poverty and squalor.

William's "immortal memory" was celebrated in Dublin with an equestrian statue at the busy College Green intersection across from Trinity College. Gifford wryly summarizes the esteem in which it was held by Catholics: "He is remembered only a little more cordially than Cromwell as a great oppressor. The emphasis on the horse in this passage recalls a traditional Irish toast: 'To the memory of the chestnut horse [that broke the neck of William of Orange]." (It was actually his collarbone, but that and a chill were the death of him.) The controversial statue was removed after an encounter with a land mine in 1929...

 

[Roylion]

Most Irish people won't be too keen on another King Billy I can tell you...

They've already had another one since the original 'King Billy'.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

They've already had another one since the original 'King Billy'.

I forgot there was one more. Here's something interesting that I didn't know until now

How many King Williams have there been? Inside the reign of every Will

WILLIAM, Prince of Wales, has a name which carries with it a lot of history. There have been a number Kings of England called William, each of whom made his own mark on the country — here’s w…

www.thesun.co.uk

...William IV had 12 children, but because 10 of them were illegitimate and two died in infancy, he was succeeded by his niece, Queen Victoria.

Must have been a mad rooter!

 

[Roylion]

I forgot there was one more. Here's something interesting that I didn't know until now



Must have been a mad rooter!

Doesn't hold the record. Henry I had over 25 illegitimate children but only two legitimate ones.

Charles II had thirteen illegitimate children and no legitimate children.
Henry II had around twelve illegitimate children and eight legitimate children
King John (Henry II's youngest legitimate child) also had around twelve illegitimate children and five legitimate children.

 

[Gough]

Didn't Charles say he wasn't going to be the only Prince of Wales who didn't have a mistress?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Didn't Charles say he wasn't going to be the only Prince of Wales who didn't have a mistress?

Yeah but then he self-identified as Camilla's tampon so he exempted himself!

What was the transcript of the ‘phone sex’ between Charles and Camilla?

The breakdown of Charles and Diana’s marriage will be featured in the new season of ‘The Crown’

www.independent.co.uk

Friday 24 November 2023

...As well as detailing their yearning for each other, it famously included a line in which the former Prince expressed his wish to be a tampon in a bid to be closer to Camilla.

“Mmm. You're awfully good at feeling your way along,” Camilla tells Charles.

“Oh stop! I want to feel my way along you, all over you and up and down you and in and out . . . particularly in and out,” he replies.

“Oh, that's just what I need at the moment,” Camilla says. “I know it would revive me. I can't bear a Sunday night without you.”

Charles goes on to add that he “fills up [Camilla’s] tank”, stating that he “needs [her] several times a week”.

He says: “Oh, God. I'll just live inside your trousers or something. It would be much easier!”

Camilla laughs: “What are you going to turn into, a pair of knickers? Oh, you're going to come back as a pair of knickers.”

Charles replies: “Or, God forbid, a Tampax. Just my luck! My luck to be chucked down a lavatory and go on and on forever swirling round on the top, never going down...”

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Doesn't hold the record. Henry I had over 25 illegitimate children but only two legitimate ones.

Charles II had thirteen illegitimate children and no legitimate children.
Henry II had around twelve illegitimate children and eight legitimate children
King John (Henry II's youngest legitimate child) also had around twelve illegitimate children and five legitimate children.

They are still children though.

 

[Roylion]

They are still children though.

Errr...yes? Did I say they weren't?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

They are still children though.

I think according to royal hereditary succession only legitimate children (through marriage or 'wedlock') matter while illegitimate children (born outside marriage or 'out of wedlock') aren't eligible for anything. I'd bet a lot of illegitimate royal kids were born through them f*cking the domestic help.

Bastard was originally the term for a child born outside marriage.

Hey Roylion, does the British monarchy still have these rules around who's 'legitimate' or have they got with the times?

 

[Roylion]

I think according to royal hereditary succession only legitimate children (through marriage or 'wedlock') matter while illegitimate children (born outside marriage or 'out of wedlock') aren't eligible for anything.

They often received titles (sometimes through marriage) and a couple aspired to the throne. William the Bastard (later Conqueror) was the most famous.

Some of the more famous royal bastards were

Robert, Earl of Gloucester
Sybylla Queen of Scotland
Reginald, Earl of Cornwall
Geoffrey, Archbishop of York
William Longsword Earl of Salisbury
Joanna, Princess of Wales
Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Richmond and Somerset
James Scott, Duke of Monmouth
Charles FitzCharles, Earl of Plymouth
Charles Fitzroy, Duke of Cleveland
Henry Fitzroy, Duke of Grafton (his great great-grandson was Governor of NSW)
George Fitzroy Duke of Northumberland
Charles Lennox, Duke of Richmond
James FitzJames Duke of Albemarle

I'd bet a lot of illegitimate royal kids were born through them f*cking the domestic help.

There were royal mistresses from all levels of society.

Hey Roylion, does the British monarchy still have these rules around who's 'legitimate' or have they got with the times?

There have been no acknowledged illegitimate children of a British monarch since William IV.

The Act of Settlement 1701 and the Bill of Rights 1689, along with subsequent amendments, mandate that the monarch's heir must be a Protestant and a legitimate descendant of Sophia of Hanover. This means being born within a valid marriage. The Succession to the Crown Act 2011 also specifically excludes illegitimate children from the line of succession.

 

[barreness]

The Bolsheviks had a solution for this royal linage hoopla

 

[Reg Grundy35]

How 'inbred' are the current royal family exactly?

Queen Victoria married her first cousin.
King Edward VII married his third cousin once removed (effectively fourth cousin)
King George V married his second cousin once removed (effectively third cousin - their common ancestor was George III)
King George VI married his thirteenth cousin (their common ancestor was King Henry VII (r. 1485 -1507) over 400 years before.
Queen Elizabeth II married her second cousin once removed (effectively third cousin)
King Charles married his seventh cousin (Diana) once removed (effectively eighth cousin. (Camilla is his ninth cousin once removed)
Prince William married his eleventh cousin once removed (effectively twelfth cousin). Prince Harry and Meaghan Markle are fifteenth cousins with a common ancestor who lived in the late 15th century.

Cousin marriage is prevalent in a number of societies around the world and at various times in history. United States before 1880, Ancient Rome, medieval Europe, ancient China, some regions of modern India, the Middle East to this day, particularly in Islamic countries. Certain Middle Eastern countries, including Saudi Arabia have rates of marriage to first or second cousins that are estimated to exceed 70%. Iraq was estimated in one study to have a rate of 33% for marriage between first and second cousins and figures for Afghanistan have been estimated in the range of 30–40%.

An estimated 35–50% of all sub-Saharan African populations either prefer or accept cousin marriages.

Slightly over 10% of all marriages worldwide are estimated to be between second cousins or closer.

Anthropologist Robin Fox of Rutgers University, suggests that it is likely that 80% of all marriages in history may have been between second cousins or closer. Record keeping for royalty and nobility was just better at recordng such marriages.

If there was no intermarriage between related people, each person living today would have 33,554,432 individual ancestors in roughly AD 1200.

The combined population of Italy, France and England in the thirteenth century has been estimated somewhere between 33 and 40 million. The population of the world in 1200 has been estimated to have been roughly 450 million.

40 generations back and we would have 1,099,511,627,77 individual ancestors, assuming no inter-marriage. That's about the year AD 750.The world population in AD 800 has been estimated between 220 million and 261 million. So 'inbreeding' through cousin marriage doesn't appear to be very rare.

Indeed millions of people throughout the world today are far more 'inbred' than our current royal family.

who the **** would know that?

 

[Episode IV]

who the **** would know that?

Someone very useful to have around on a forum, in order to set the record straight.

Roylion is a wealth of information.

 

[Roylion]

who the **** would know that?

Now you do.

Millions of people throughout the world today are far more 'inbred' than our current royal family.

 

[peetoo]

As I said, in my view a system of constitutional monarchy is preferable to that of a republic. The fact that the reserve powers are vested in a non-elected monarch and are exercised by whoever fills the office of Governor-General (who could be chosen by a variety of methods) is a nice stable system of checks and balances.

Harold George Nicholson who at various stages of his public career was a politician, diplomat, historian, biographer, diarist, novelist, lecturer, journalist and broadcaster put it this way.

"The advantages of a hereditary Monarchy are self-evident. Without some such method of prescriptive, immediate and automatic succession, an interregnum intervenes, rival claimants arise, continuity is interrupted and the magic lost. Apart from the imponderable, but deeply important, sentiments and affections which congregate around an ancient and legitimate Royal Family, a hereditary Monarch acquires sovereignty by processes which are wholly different from those by which a dictator seizes, or a President is granted, the headship of the State. The monarch personifies both the past history and the present identity of the Nation as a whole. In an epoch of change, he [she] remains the symbol of continuity; in a phase of disintegration, the element of cohesion; in times of mutability, the emblem of permanence. Governments come and go, politicians rise and fall: the Crown is always there. He [she] is not impelled as usurpers and dictators are impelled, either to mesmerise his people by a succession of dramatic triumphs, or to secure their acquiescence by internal terrorism or by the invention of external dangers. The appeal of hereditary Monarchy is to stability rather than to change, to continuity rather than to experiment, to custom rather than to novelty, to safety rather than to adventure.

The Monarch, above all, is neutral. Whatever may be his [her] personal prejudices or affections, he [she] is bound to remain detached from all political parties and to preserve in his [her] own person the equilibrium of the realm. An elected President – whether, as under some constitutions, he be no more than a representative functionary, or whether, as under other constitutions, he be the chief executive – can never inspire the same sense of absolute neutrality. However impartial he may strive to become, he must always remain the prisoner of his own partisan past; he is accompanied by friends and supporters whom he may seek to reward, or faced by former antagonists who will regard him with distrust. He cannot, to an equal extent, serve as the fly-wheel of the State.”




See above.

Though a monarchy, it’s officially the commonwealth of Australia, which I believe was used under Cromwell and distinctly a monarchy

I believe when the time comes, a unique commonwealth arrangement , better than Cromwells short empire of course, could evolve.

There is also the matter of state governors, who probably have varying degrees of reserve power.

Perhaps they make up the commonwealth council of australia, and rotate the ceremonial chair (should keep them quiet)

 

[peetoo]

How 'inbred' are the current royal family exactly?

Queen Victoria married her first cousin.
King Edward VII married his third cousin once removed (effectively fourth cousin)
King George V married his second cousin once removed (effectively third cousin - their common ancestor was George III)
King George VI married his thirteenth cousin (their common ancestor was King Henry VII (r. 1485 -1507) over 400 years before.
Queen Elizabeth II married her second cousin once removed (effectively third cousin)
King Charles married his seventh cousin (Diana) once removed (effectively eighth cousin. (Camilla is his ninth cousin once removed)
Prince William married his eleventh cousin once removed (effectively twelfth cousin). Prince Harry and Meaghan Markle are fifteenth cousins with a common ancestor who lived in the late 15th century.

Cousin marriage is prevalent in a number of societies around the world and at various times in history. United States before 1880, Ancient Rome, medieval Europe, ancient China, some regions of modern India, the Middle East to this day, particularly in Islamic countries. Certain Middle Eastern countries, including Saudi Arabia have rates of marriage to first or second cousins that are estimated to exceed 70%. Iraq was estimated in one study to have a rate of 33% for marriage between first and second cousins and figures for Afghanistan have been estimated in the range of 30–40%.

An estimated 35–50% of all sub-Saharan African populations either prefer or accept cousin marriages.

Slightly over 10% of all marriages worldwide are estimated to be between second cousins or closer.

Anthropologist Robin Fox of Rutgers University, suggests that it is likely that 80% of all marriages in history may have been between second cousins or closer. Record keeping for royalty and nobility was just better at recordng such marriages.

If there was no intermarriage between related people, each person living today would have 33,554,432 individual ancestors in roughly AD 1200.

The combined population of Italy, France and England in the thirteenth century has been estimated somewhere between 33 and 40 million. The population of the world in 1200 has been estimated to have been roughly 450 million.

40 generations back and we would have 1,099,511,627,77 individual ancestors, assuming no inter-marriage. That's about the year AD 750.The world population in AD 800 has been estimated between 220 million and 261 million. So 'inbreeding' through cousin marriage doesn't appear to be very rare.

Indeed millions of people throughout the world today are far more 'inbred' than our current royal family.

Iceland would have the most complete genealogical records of all citizens not just aristocracy

 

[Gough]

I like that we're at the cousin marriage is all good by way of justifying the royal family.

 

[Roylion]

I like that we're at the cousin marriage is all good by way of justifying the royal family.

Once again you've misrepresented what I said.

I wasn't saying that cousin marriage "was all good" to justify the royal family. I made no judgement about cousin marriage at all.

I made the point that the royal family wasn't that 'inbred' (in response to a comment that they were). Cousin marriage is still relatively common in many parts of the modern world and that millions of people living today were more 'inbred' than the royal family.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

maybe the cons

Once again you've misrepresented what I said.

I wasn't saying that cousin marriage "was all good" to justify the royal family. I made no judgement about cousin marriage at all.

I made the point that the royal family wasn't that 'inbred' (in response to a comment that they were). Cousin marriage is still relatively common in many parts of the modern world and that millions of people living today were more 'inbred' than the royal family.

consequences arent as obvious as they are with the Windsors.

 

[Roylion]

maybe the cons

consequences arent as obvious as they are with the Windsors.

What 'consequences' are to referring to?

 

[Gethelred]

Once again you've misrepresented what I said.

I wasn't saying that cousin marriage "was all good" to justify the royal family. I made no judgement about cousin marriage at all.

I made the point that the royal family wasn't that 'inbred' (in response to a comment that they were). Cousin marriage is still relatively common in many parts of the modern world and that millions of people living today were more 'inbred' than the royal family.

Your ability to turn the phrase 'the royal family wasn't that inbred' into a win is simply astonishing. If argument was a sport, you'd be olympic.